Disapointing Experiance at a high cost, Will the expansion fix it?

[gamer4life2 0]

My friends and I purchase a few new  board games per year and when StarCraft was released it really sounded like a great epic war game so we didn't hesitate.  The game has been in the group now for about a month and we have played it numerous times, (I have played 6 games as of last night).  In any case the experiance has been really disapointing so far but I continue to hear arguments about how great the game is on the forums and various review sites.  Many claiming that it is the expansion that solves most of the games problems.  Given that the game was really expensive and the expansion costs about as much as a new game would I'm really relactant to buy it, yet at the same time having already spent so much cash on the original game which at this point I can say is unlikely to see any table time anytime soon, I sort of feel obligated to try and find whatever "IT" is that makes people rave about the game.

The problems with the game as I see them in no particular order.

Mobility:  This I think above all else is the biggest trouble with the game, but often is more or less of an issue depending on the layout of the Planets.  With only 4 possible orders and only 2 of them being mobility (with a possibel third I guess you could say) you really can't get very far.  In addition their is the issue of building transports (before you can move) and before you can build a transport you need a base.  The whole thing is just sooo bloody painful.  It never fails that one player is winning do simply to the fact that others can't get too him fast enough. 

Predictable Combat:  I would say I can guess with about 90% accuraccy three things in any given round.  I can guess where any given player will attack.  I can guess the results of the overall combat and I can guess how he will line up his units as the attacker.  I would say with about 70-80% accurracy I can guess the results of any skirmish as well although this gets more difficult in later rounds with tech cards and all. Still its all very predictable, its a very straight forward very obvious situation in most games.  While I love the concept of a diceless mechanic, in this game it serves only to give very static results.  This is due in part by the fact that the units have such disperangly different attack and defend totals that the only time a fight is not entirely predictable is when units of equal class are fighting (aka Space Marines vs. Zerglings) for example.  But even this is pretty predictable since in most cases the unit count 'How many on each side" and the fact that the attacker can break supply limit and lines up the units and the fact that he draws an additional 3 combat cards.. I mean you really stack the odds against the defender quite high.  Its also quite easy to look at a defended position and know if you do or don't have the troops to take it. 

Unbalanced Racial Characteristics:  The biggest beef I have is with the racial victory conditions.   Really they are just too bloody easy to do.  By round 4 of every game we have been in all or most players already have their victory conditions done lined up but by round 5 someone hits 15 conquest points anyway, usually the person who managed to isolate him and earn 3 points per round for the entire game.  Sometimes it goes into a 6th round, but its rare.

I suppose the question is, does the expansion address the above three issues in any way?  Is mobility of the game improved by the expansion rules.  Does combat become less predictable? and are game end results any different as a result of the expansion?

 

[cyb3k 0]

My personal experiences from BW games below. I assume you have already read something about Leadership Cards (e.g. you know that they allow to gain heroes, another sets of starting units, special buildings, powers etc.).

 

Mobility: Well, there are some interesting Leadership cards increasing it (Warp Gate: teleporter allowing to get to any empty area in galaxy; Covert Operations: a card allowing Ghosts to tget to the neighbouring planet even without transport). Moreover, there's a new module allowing to ignore Air Support Module (with destroying transport). Destroying enemy bases is now far more easier (also because of Collateral Damage, received by some powerfull units). Some Leadership cards even increase the number of orders you are allowed to use in round(s).

Overally, in BW you can do more things using fewer orders (or even without using them!) than without expansion. However, by using some units' abilities you may still fortify some planets as well as in original game (this is profitable especially if you may win the game by Normal Victory (Conquest points), which is as easy as before, and mostly obligatory, because Special Victory is now rare).

 

Predictable Combat: Well, im my opinion it isn't very predictable because of oppotents' Combat cards. Even strong, expensive units can be easier destroyed in BW. More units = more possibilities. Most of new units are very powerfull and can reach 9 attack even with little/no support. On the other hand, another new module (Defensive module) allows the defender to replace some front line units in skirmishes. Defender may also use a new order once per round (Defend), which give +2 to health (not stacking with any health bonuses) in one friendly area + ability to mobilize to it. Heroes are (mostly) really hard to kill. There are more options both ot defend and to harm your oppotents.

BTW: Even obvious possibilities can be prevented, just because of the way orders are executed.

 

Unbalanced Racial Characteristics: Well, there are still some IMO unbalanced abilities, but Special Victory isn't already one of them. In BW you have to choose the Leadeship card containing it if you want to win the game in this way. I think Normal Victory is very easy to reach in some galaxies and often ends the game in unfair/unsatisfying way. Fortunately, you may easy modify the game rules or use some game variants/modes. 

[Railarian 0]

I agree with Cyb3k. The major highlights in BW are :

You can actually defend (defend order, defense module, medics, lurkers, dark archons, some ld (leadersinp) cards...)

Bases can be taken/destroyed more quickly (offensive module, coll damage, infested cmmand centers... )

Protoss are fixed (no reaver rush, cheap - rather cheaper - flyers w/ corsairs )

Terrans are fixed (firebats are better than marines, interesting valkyries )

Zergs are fixed (Scourges rules more stable, Devours fills a hole, awesome ld cards)

Interesting new planets (ground or air only areas favours a variety of units)

LESS PREDICTABLE VICTORY because of ld cards that you can play at the start of each stage !!!! Thanks FFG !!!!!

And heroes are lots of fun to play around (kerrigan and fenix are my favourite)

And fun variants like survival that encourages fighting !!!!

 

Don't buy BW if you didn't like :

The combat system with cards and assist and support...

The resource system

The stack order system

Moving around planets, because they didn't change much.

[bi0bi0 0]

 buying bw is worth every coing from yr purse

and yes its fixed as the guys said above 

[bi0bi0 0]

bi0bi0 said:

 buying bw is worth every coin from yr purse

and yes its fixed as the guys said above 

[bi0bi0 0]

 

 

 buying bw is worth every coin from yr purse

and yes its fixed as the guys said above 

 

 

 

[bi0bi0 0]

 moderator sorry please delete this spam

[gamer4life2 0]

Thanks for the advice guys.  Not sure what I'm going to end up doing, at the moment I'm not terribly moved by StarCraft but we may have played it one too many times in recent days.  I may take a step back and let it collect some dust, perhaps we'll build up the excitment after a while to try it again.

[Galdred 18]

You should play in team games. It works much better than FFA with Starcraft IMO, and it would reduce your mobility problems, as you always have someone from the other team nearby to bash

FFA is overrated IMO, as it usually comes down to not looking too powerful, while getting ready to expand super fast at the right time, and convincing other players player X is the real threat. It gets old after a while, as it is the same in most FFA boardgames.

The added benefit is that special victory conditions are not that important in team games, as the first team to wipe an opposing player will win anyway.

The combat is not that deterministic if players are a bit aggressive, and don't tech 3 times between each battle, as many units won't get their specific card. 

As other have said, Brood War makes the game much better by addressing many problems at once.

[Stefan 732]

Well, I have an opposing opinion, as I think team games take away the meat of the game. But that's up to everyone.

I'm not entirely sure if the expansion will fix your problems. Sure, the factions and races are more balanced, the units too, everything, every minor fault of the original game is definitely fixed, and I love the game even more than I did before since I bought the expansion.

But: it seems like you didn't love the game in the first place. It seems like you are disappointed by major game elements such as the restricted number of orders, and that won't change with the expansion, though of course your possibilities are widened a bit by the leadership cards. But if you don't like the major game mechanics, the expansion won't change much about this, since it only improves minor flaws, but lets the major principles untouched - luckily, I might add, since I love them very much.