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Nurgle

Difference between ToI and Memoir44?

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I'm sure you'll find plenty of analysis and opinion at BGG. For my part, I own both TOI and M'44 and enjoy playing both. But they are pretty different games. IMO it boils down to better tactical simulation (TOI) vs. simplicity (M'44). If the differences between the armor/speed/firepower of a Tiger and a Sherman matter to you (TOI) then M'44 will feel "shallow" since tanks-are-tanks.

On the other hand, an M'44 scenario can be played in 40-90 minutes. And I have to say I like the organization of the M'44 scenarios better (at least at this point - maybe TOI's will be more organized as time goes by). My "non-gamer" friends will play M'44. I'm pretty sure I will start my kids on M'44 (for ease of play). But all said - if I had to choose between the two systems - I'd go TOI. It just is more satisfying to me.

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As other forum members I also have and like both games.

I use M44 as an entry point game to hook people to hex wargames (or sort of): it is fast and simple to play to setup and play. As soon gamers demand something more elaborated and not so heavely dependant on luck we pass to TOI - till now this happens after a couple of M44 sessions.

Other than that I play M44 with my younger kid, whereas I play TOI with the oldest one.

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sharpe said:

As other forum members I also have and like both games.

I use M44 as an entry point game to hook people to hex wargames (or sort of): it is fast and simple to play to setup and play. As soon gamers demand something more elaborated and not so heavely dependant on luck we pass to TOI - till now this happens after a couple of M44 sessions.

Other than that I play M44 with my younger kid, whereas I play TOI with the oldest one.

 

First things first, all things considered I prefer TOI. However, I think it's a misconception that in memoir 44 luck decides who wins. Though this may certainly happen occasionally, overall I feel the most competent player wins. With all the expansions memoir has seen so far it's no longer as simple as it used to be: playing the right card at the right moment, withdrawing certain units, effectively using armor overrun determine who wins and loses apart from the fact that indeed occasionally an unlucky dieroll or the lack of cards may decide the winner. However, In TOI one can also roll misses at a critical moment.

 

I once saw a list of winners of memoir tournaments over at BGG probably and year after year it was the same people in the top five mostly. Knwoing that undoubtedly memoir has a fanbase that's larger than 5 people, that proves to me that skill is the determining factor in the game!

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Thats the answer! Thats how you can get the females to play TOI! We just have to use cute looking dice. And paint some of the tanks with flowers camoflage colors. Maybe paint some of the soldiers with dinner jackets. Add some addition garden terrrain tiles, and some outdoor restaurants with tables, and an outdoor ampitheater with an orchestra. Winter boards could include a ice skating ring, and tiles with horse drawn sleigh.

Include some interesting new operations cards like:female snipers, and Fickle tactic (female player can take back one action). and Late tactic, allows female player to delay movement of one of your units (her choice) until next turn.

Additional special units: Flower laden halftracks, Star Bucks mobile truck (allows one of female players units to become unfatigued and move/fire again.)

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VolksCamper said:

Thats the answer! Thats how you can get the females to play TOI! We just have to use cute looking dice. And paint some of the tanks with flowers camoflage colors. Maybe paint some of the soldiers with dinner jackets. Add some addition garden terrrain tiles, and some outdoor restaurants with tables, and an outdoor ampitheater with an orchestra. Winter boards could include a ice skating ring, and tiles with horse drawn sleigh.

Include some interesting new operations cards like:female snipers, and Fickle tactic (female player can take back one action). and Late tactic, allows female player to delay movement of one of your units (her choice) until next turn.

Additional special units: Flower laden halftracks, Star Bucks mobile truck (allows one of female players units to become unfatigued and move/fire again.)

Or allow them to spend the command points at a department store that's still standing (that'd be the objective of the game for one side: prevent the enemy from destroying the department store. Partial victory is also possible: if the building is destroyed but all the goods have since been purchased ( or the more the higher the level of victory) you can achieve a major, minor, token victory etc. If the battle is won, place an extra department store anywhere on the board!

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Latro said:

Memoir '44 has dice with cute little coloured symbols on it ... Tide of Iron has regular dice!

 

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(PS: No, I'm not a big Memoir fan.)

If the dice make or break a game for you do NOT buy memoir 44. I can barely read the symbols anymore after about 300 games played...

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I use Memoir 44 as the taster I serve up to non-gamers in the hope of pushing them into a full on tactical wargaming addicition that can then be fed by games like ToI.

If I had to choose between TOI and M44 I would always pick TOI, but when you take time available, experience level of your opponent etc M44 sometimes fills a necessary gap. I actually really enjoy M44 but I do find that some cards can be overpowered in certain situations (for example, Behind Enemy Lines in any game that awards victory medals for control points means that very often a player can win a game in a single turn from a less than promising position).

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Tide of Iron is the better looking game with the greater variety of realistic looking pieces. The game system, however, seems to me to be too predictable and the turns are sometimes agonizingly long, The range of units weapons is not accurately represented IMO, and the movements of units relative to each other and the weapons ranges seems off as well. Then, some units, like the AT gun need some additional rules. The good thing, is, the game is pretty flexible, and it is easy to add your own rules to the base set , add more units, and adjust it the way you like.

 

Memoir 44 has a better variety of scenarios, and the variability of outcomes coupled with the  uncertainty of opponents cards, is what makes the game so replayable. I have played all the scenarios repeatedly, and never know what may happen, so its like playing it the first time. 

The only criticism I have, is the "cuteness" factor of the design, which IMO, diminishes the quality of its overall game system. The artwork is a little too Cartoon like, and the Crayon lettering and "Days of Wonder" slogan actually kind of make it embarrassing for an adult of my age to be seen playing the game.

Then, there is little distinction between types of units, and there is really very little difference in unit ranges and movements, The unit markers could have been a little more precise, and less cartoon like also, but, I guess children and/or girlfriend will not mind at all. Certainly, the cat will find it all very amusing watching your thoughtful plan disintegrate as your opponent plays a lucky card. 

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