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Quarrel

rules answers: arc & line of sight diagrams

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Excellent work, I'll link this from my FAQ thread if that's OK with you?

Please do! Only use the album link, though. I can't update individual images with Imgur. I have to upload new ones and delete the old.

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Excellent work, I'll link this from my FAQ thread if that's OK with you?

Please do! Only use the album link, though. I can't update individual images with Imgur. I have to upload new ones and delete the old.

 

 

Thanks. I've just linked this thread :)

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Also a new dabbler to this game and glad not to be the only one having run into the challenge of how to handle the Trinity of Line-of-Sight, Arc, and Range. It seems that all elements of the Trinity must clear the tests and that they do so individually of each others. I think the rules are written relatively clear-cut, but I still miss some elements being stressed more than they are; even more so being in-bound from X-Wing with familiar, and perhaps different, routines of how to shot at my enemies.

Your illustrations are really great, but looking at the situation in picture 1. and 3. and finding them pretty straight-forward, I do wonder if the same rules hold true if the shortest distance between the attacking Hull Point and the targetted Hull Point is not within the firing arc (as it is on field 3. of the guide above).

This would look something like this:
ArmadaArcvsRange_zpslryb86c5.jpg

Assuming that the Corvette wants to use it's forward Hull Point to fire a salvo at the starboard Hull Point of the Star Destroyer. The white line shows the firing arc of the Corvette's forward Hull, however the closest point between the attacking and the targetted Hull Points is outside the firing arc. The colours designate range, so my question is if this shot would be at Medium (blue) or Long range (red)?

From the rules as written it looks to me like Arc and Range are checked individually and by different means. If that holds true then the shot will be taken at Medium and not Long Range. However, it feels a somewhat counter-intuitive (again, especially being used to X-Wing firing arcs), so should I listen to my intuition or my logic?

Edited by Cremate

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RRG P7:

"To measure attack range from a ship, measure from the closest point of the attacking hull zone. To measure attack range to a ship, measure to the closest point of the defending hull zone."

 

So the shot would be at long range.

 

Edit - Brain fart, please ignore :ph34r:

Edited by Smuggler

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RRG P7:

"To measure attack range from a ship, measure from the closest point of the attacking hull zone. To measure attack range to a ship, measure to the closest point of the defending hull zone."

 

So the shot would be at long range.

Please walk me through how that rule quote leads to that conclusion?

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The question here is: When determining range, do you measure from closest to closest, thereby ignoring the fact that the closest point is outside the firearc? the rules do not mention firearcs anywhere in its explanation of determining range. 

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 the rules do not mention firearcs anywhere in its explanation of determining range. 

I've searched and searched for it and I wonder if this is (unintentional) bug or a(n) (intended) feature.

On the other hand, if it is an intended feature then it feels counter-intuitive enough that it would have been great with an explicit statement in the rules that range is indeed measured independently from arcs.

Whichever is the intended interpretation, the rules seem to fall a little bit short on clarity.

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RRG P7:

"To measure attack range from a ship, measure from the closest point of the attacking hull zone. To measure attack range to a ship, measure to the closest point of the defending hull zone."

 

So the shot would be at long range.

Please walk me through how that rule quote leads to that conclusion?

 

Sure.

We are measuring attack range from a ship right? According to the quoted section of the RRF we then measure from the closest point of the attacking hull zone not just the closest point of the entire ship.

At the same time we are measuring attack range to a ship right? According to the quoted section of the RRF we then measure to the closest point of the defending hull zone not just the closest point of the entire ship.

 

So what is the closest point between the two ships outside the involved hull zones is irellevant. And from what I can see in the picture the closest point between the ships that is inside the involved hull zones is at lang range.

 

Edit - Ok, now I see what you mean. the closest point of the two hull zones is outside the firing arc and som it is indeed at an other range the the closest point inside the arc. My mistake,

Edited by Smuggler

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Your illustrations are really great, but looking at the situation in picture 1. and 3. and finding them pretty straight-forward, I do wonder if the same rules hold true if the shortest distance between the attacking Hull Point and the targetted Hull Point is not within the firing arc (as it is on field 3. of the guide above).

This would look something like this:

ArmadaArcvsRange_zpslryb86c5.jpg

Those range bands are from "whole ship" to target. Those kinds of bands are not used for resolving fire. When ships are involved in attacks, only individual sections matter. (Whole ship ranges are used for other things, like which squadrons are close enough to activate with an order.)

That said, because of which corvette section is firing and where its target is, the relevant part of the image is still accurate.

 

Assuming that the Corvette wants to use it's forward Hull Point to fire a salvo at the starboard Hull Point of the Star Destroyer. The white line shows the firing arc of the Corvette's forward Hull, however the closest point between the attacking and the targetted Hull Points is outside the firing arc. The colours designate range, so my question is if this shot would be at Medium (blue) or Long range (red)?

From the rules as written it looks to me like Arc and Range are checked individually and by different means. If that holds true then the shot will be taken at Medium and not Long Range. However, it feels a somewhat counter-intuitive (again, especially being used to X-Wing firing arcs), so should I listen to my intuition or my logic?

Medium, as has already been answered. Arc, range, and line of sight are checked individually and by different means. All of them care only about their own legality, not whether they'd be legal if they had to follow each others' restrictions. Edited by Quarrel

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Is it possible for a ship to shoot at the same of another ship with two different arcs? Like in the first picture. The SD front is in the front arc of the corvette and the side arc. but i think that the yellow dots wouldnt quite work...

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