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Fairbanks

Best Deck?

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Fairbanks said:

 For your focus argument, would you prefer that Tidus said "discard a target kairi card?"  Versatility is a very powerful tool, and when you have enough atk power to clear most worlds, what's it going to hurt to toss in a few that bump your count to 13 as a fall back?

Fairbanks said:

 For your focus argument, would you prefer that Tidus said "discard a target kairi card?"  Versatility is a very powerful tool, and when you have enough atk power to clear most worlds, what's it going to hurt to toss in a few that bump your count to 13 as a fall back?

If Kairi was good, then it wouldn't be a bad card. it'd be like deathmark or gutteral response from magic. The problem with your argument is that while versatility is okay on some card cards, broadening the amount of other cards it threatens, it doesn't work when trying to win games.  It's good to have a back-up plan but I wouldn't suggest WR as an aggro plan B, or Aggro as a WR plan B.  The worlds in your deck that you use as a plan B will be my game winning cards or none existent all together so I can get to my most powerful cards faster. 

When I have enough power to clear worlds that usually means I  have enough power to win challenges so why would I waste resources.  JoaT is ONLY good when you are already winning, a win more strategy instead of a winning strategy.

JoaT is terrible...isn't this thread supposed to be about good  decks?

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You will need to be very lucky to have your aggro deck beat the WR I've built, and I'm going to leave it at that.  If you think having a deck that is a near auto-loss is a good thing, that's your business, but with a lot of these aggro decks running little to no magic, olympia, and a handful of worlds (and Pegasus!), what's the harm in running a few more coliseums (that lvl 3 one is blank if you aren't running magic), enough to hit 13 at least..

 

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Fairbanks said:

You will need to be very lucky to have your aggro deck beat the WR I've built, and I'm going to leave it at that.  If you think having a deck that is a near auto-loss is a good thing, that's your business, but with a lot of these aggro decks running little to no magic, olympia, and a handful of worlds (and Pegasus!), what's the harm in running a few more coliseums (that lvl 3 one is blank if you aren't running magic), enough to hit 13 at least..

 

Dood...why are you getting so cocky all of a sudden?

How many people have you playtested this deck against? How good of a player would you say they were? We've only had the set a few weeks, so properly testing a deck is gonna be hard right now, so being so confident isn't going to get you anywhere sir. 

It sounds to me like you saw my deck and how much everyone thought it was good, and built an answer to it (I gather this much from the quote above)...so I don't know, I guess we'll see what happens when GenCon rolls around and we can do some playtesting...I'm just saying don't get too cocky yet, I doubt you've seen enough good decks and good players to be so confident.

 

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Can't edit original post *hate these forums so bad*...so I'll amend my previous post.

I get what your saying the more I think about...WR backup in the event that your opponent's Heal Spamming puts their HP out of reach...

Honestly I just wish this game had better cards...everything is so underpowered...

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 I'd rather be confident and be wrong than lack confidence and be right, you know?  There's little I can say aside from "look, I know you think you're right, I think you're wrong, here's why," and have them ignore the "here's why," and instead try to prove me wrong.  The goal of a debate or discussion, despite what most of this country believes, is not to destroy the opposition, but to convince the audience of your point.  I've tried that, and nobody listens.  I could be dead wrong. But I don't think I am.

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Fairbanks said:

 

 I'd rather be confident and be wrong than lack confidence and be right, you know?  There's little I can say aside from "look, I know you think you're right, I think you're wrong, here's why," and have them ignore the "here's why," and instead try to prove me wrong.  The goal of a debate or discussion, despite what most of this country believes, is not to destroy the opposition, but to convince the audience of your point.  I've tried that, and nobody listens.  I could be dead wrong. But I don't think I am.

 

 

It's not that we aren't listening... it's just that we don't agree.

If you wanted someone to prove you wrong, then the only way to really do that is to play a game against you and show you why a JoaT deck just doesn't work at higher levels of play.

Jack of all Trade decks can be good (And keep in mind that "good" is a relative term) for one reason: If you build it right, you'll always be able to counter whatever your opponent does.  If you're playing against players who use tactics that are easily countered, and you're JoaT deck happens to counter all of those, then yes your JoaT deck is going to look awesome.  You'll probably even be tempted to think it's the best deck ever when it beats all of your friends.

But...

The shortcoming with JoaT decks is that there are certain cards, and certain decks that use those cards, that have no reliable counter.  Cards like Monstro, Soul Eater (Moreso in set 3 than 4) and Phil cannot be effectively countered or overcome.  Sure there's ways to temporarily solve these problems but... they won't serve you very well in the long run.  And if your JoaT deck can't effectively counter your opponent, it suddenly becomes a very weak deck.

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Fairbanks said:

 I'd rather be confident and be wrong than lack confidence and be right, you know?  There's little I can say aside from "look, I know you think you're right, I think you're wrong, here's why," and have them ignore the "here's why," and instead try to prove me wrong.  The goal of a debate or discussion, despite what most of this country believes, is not to destroy the opposition, but to convince the audience of your point.  I've tried that, and nobody listens.  I could be dead wrong. But I don't think I am.

Hes so good they might as well call him un-fairbanks

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GTrogi said:

Fairbanks said:

 

 I'd rather be confident and be wrong than lack confidence and be right, you know?  There's little I can say aside from "look, I know you think you're right, I think you're wrong, here's why," and have them ignore the "here's why," and instead try to prove me wrong.  The goal of a debate or discussion, despite what most of this country believes, is not to destroy the opposition, but to convince the audience of your point.  I've tried that, and nobody listens.  I could be dead wrong. But I don't think I am.

 

 

Hes so good they might as well call him un-fairbanks

lol, you made a funny.

I'd agree with this statement...he's really good...I'm just gonna need to see this deck in action before I believe it.

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Sluppie said:

The shortcoming with JoaT decks is that there are certain cards, and certain decks that use those cards, that have no reliable counter.  Cards like Monstro, Soul Eater (Moreso in set 3 than 4) and Phil cannot be effectively countered or overcome.  Sure there's ways to temporarily solve these problems but... they won't serve you very well in the long run.  And if your JoaT deck can't effectively counter your opponent, it suddenly becomes a very weak deck.

Did you just seriously say that Soul Eater is a problem in the current environment?  Really?  

Okay, I'm going to give you a scenario, right now.  I've got a WR deck.  It feels pretty solid, I like it quite a bit.  I've found that it can cycle through itself pretty fast if it needs to (yes, even with phil in play).  It's currently at 44 cards, counting player.  I feel like this is too many.  I want to add more though, and here's why: if I add any more cards to the deck, they will likely fall under the category of "meta." Something that kills Phil, something that gets me HP, or a dark card (maybe one of the later Air spells).  

Do you see most of the decks running 48-50 cards?  They will draw them out slower than I will most of the time.  There are two options to take advantage of this: either add some situational cards that will give me an edge (maybe splash in Goofy/Valor Form and event 1 if I want to try and aggro them a little), but draw at their rate.  Or, option 2: make every single card in my deck have cut-throat efficiency OR stay in play so that, on the reshuffle, I get to the other cards faster.  I mean, it's possible to run 6 destiny islands right now.  If you run solid lvl 0s, and they actually will directly hurt your opponent or advance your victory condition,  maybe 6 DI is the way for you to go.  Personally, I just like the lvl 2 because it's shiny :).

Also, if you think Phil can't be countered, you'll be in for a world of hurt when someone actually does.  

Now, as to my original post, it was speculation, but Dawn, upon seeing what I meant a few posts ago, seems like he may agree.  If you're already running a few levels of worlds, is it going to hurt your deck to throw in some lvl 3 Olympus Coliseums so that you can hit 13 if you have to?  Especially because they are blank for most aggro decks, and tehy net you a card off of Pegasus?

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Also, I'd congratulate you on the "unFairbanks" bit, but a friend of mine said it when one of our friends was mocking something I said ("stop being unFairbanks").  Still, it was nice to see others think of it, as it amuses me :) 

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Sora_Yagami said:

 

Just gonna say this right now...if you lose to tink spamming and lvl 3 worlds.  You are probably bad at this game...

 

 

That's kind of a harsh statement don't you think?  It's easy to lose to a Tink spammer when they're Popping your Owls left and right and has enough casters in the deck to not worry about field control. I've lost to them before, with a deck you said was good...so do you think I'm bad at this game now?

The Level 3 worlds part is a bit more understandable...but, still...to say someone is bad just because they lose to a certain type of deck makes you sound like dut.

ON TOPIC: I'll need to playtest, but I'm gonna be running Olympus Coliseums to get me to 13...so I'll be going JoaT, sort of.  I will never WR unless I have to, so it's more of a backup plan, I figure with as much draw as I run, it shouldn't hurt me that badly...it pains me to no end that I might need to do this...we'll see in a week or so.

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Fairbanks said:

 

 

 

 

Did you just seriously say that Soul Eater is a problem in the current environment?  Really?  

 

 

 

Um.... no?  I said it was a good card in set 3, and not in set 4?  No one uses Soul Eater now that they have Kingdom Key and Valor Form, geeze.  I kinda figured that went without saying.  But I guess some people still think it's a question...  Maybe it is, I dunno.  But I still think 3x Valor > 3x Soul Eater, and that's ignoring Kingdom Key.

Also concerning Phil counters: the keyword is reliable.  Magic can be reliably countered by Phil.  Decks that rely upon a huge number of Friends (Like dark decks) are reliably countered by Monstro.  Darkside, Friend area wipe combos, etc ARE ways to take out Phil, but if you want to put those things on the same level as Monstro or Phil then you're just kidding yourself.  I can easily play my deck so that Darkside is never an option for you.  Friend Area clears tend to work both ways, so you better have something awesome in your hand to justify something that costly.  I could go on, but I'm sure you already know this stuff so there's no point.

 

Is my post really so unclear that you misunderstand pretty much everything I said?  Maybe I should work on my own writing skills instead of whining at FFG.

As for your scenario... okay.  You've given me a scenario but you haven't told me what to do with it or what question to answer with it.  So what was the point?

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WayToTheDawn said:

Sora_Yagami said:

 

Just gonna say this right now...if you lose to tink spamming and lvl 3 worlds.  You are probably bad at this game...

 

 

That's kind of a harsh statement don't you think?  It's easy to lose to a Tink spammer when they're Popping your Owls left and right and has enough casters in the deck to not worry about field control. I've lost to them before, with a deck you said was good...so do you think I'm bad at this game now?

The Level 3 worlds part is a bit more understandable...but, still...to say someone is bad just because they lose to a certain type of deck makes you sound like dut.

ON TOPIC: I'll need to playtest, but I'm gonna be running Olympus Coliseums to get me to 13...so I'll be going JoaT, sort of.  I will never WR unless I have to, so it's more of a backup plan, I figure with as much draw as I run, it shouldn't hurt me that badly...it pains me to no end that I might need to do this...we'll see in a week or so.

It is easy to lose to them but it's also easy to win against them, if you can play the match-up well.  I apologize for the harsh statment.

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Sora_Yagami said:

 


 

 

It is easy to lose to them but it's also easy to win against them, if you can play the match-up well.  I apologize for the harsh statment.

 

 

Don't apologize for it.  People may think you're being a jerk, or having incredible amount of hubris, but it gets them to listen a lot easier than "you probably ought to look at your deck and strategy a little if you lose to tink spamming.

 

Also, since I'm not playing it, I'll post the deck I was going to run that's basically built to eff Phill's stuff up.

edit: upon further inspection, I've just got a rough outline that doesn't include attack cards, equipment, dark cards and worlds. weird.  anyway, here's the rough of it all, I put in the worlds I think I'd run, maybe 3x of DI if I can't draw Tidus fast enough.:

Sora lvl 1

Valor Form

lvl 0:
Chip and Dale
The King
Tidus x2

lvl 1:
Cid
Donald Duck
Moogle x2

lvl 2:
Aeris
Fairy Godmother

lvl 3:
Jack Sparrow
Merlin

lvl 4:
Aladdin
Auron
Donald x2
Goofy (valor)

Magic/Friends:
Genie lvl 4

Magic:
3x Graviga
2x Stopra

2x Destiny Islands lvl 1
2x Monstro lvl 1
2x Timeless River lvl 1

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Also, the key part is that you just mill until you get what you need.  It may need a tink or two to offset potential challenge losses, not sure.  And the personality base is just rough too, there should be more friends, Sephy and such, but I only put what I think are essential for the skeleton.

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Fairbanks said:

 

 Don't apologize for it.  People may think you're being a jerk, or having incredible amount of hubris, but it gets them to listen a lot easier than "you probably ought to look at your deck and strategy a little if you lose to tink spamming.

 

There's a difference between being a **** and being straightforward.  No one listens to the d-bag who tells them their bad without explaining themselves.  Who would you rather listen to advice from out of these two statements?

A) "Man, you lost to that? You must be a horrible player."

B) "Man, you lost to that? Maybe next time you could try X, Y, Z, cards."

There's a lot to be said for someone who's willing to help and not be an a-hole about it...your view on this confuses me...but then again, I always seem to be missing something when it comes to conversations with you...it's very easy to take the things you say the wrong way. Point is...is it so hard to be nicer to people?

 

Fairbanks said:

Also, since I'm not playing it, I'll post the deck I was going to run that's basically built to eff Phill's stuff up.

 

edit: upon further inspection, I've just got a rough outline that doesn't include attack cards, equipment, dark cards and worlds. weird.  anyway, here's the rough of it all, I put in the worlds I think I'd run, maybe 3x of DI if I can't draw Tidus fast enough.:

Sora lvl 1

Valor Form

lvl 0:
Chip and Dale
The King
Tidus x2

lvl 1:
Cid
Donald Duck
Moogle x2

lvl 2:
Aeris
Fairy Godmother

lvl 3:
Jack Sparrow
Merlin

lvl 4:
Aladdin
Auron
Donald x2
Goofy (valor)

Magic/Friends:
Genie lvl 4

Magic:
3x Graviga
2x Stopra

2x Destiny Islands lvl 1
2x Monstro lvl 1
2x Timeless River lvl 1

 

 

Once again, I MUST be missing something, cause if this is the skeleton of a winning deck......I need to stop playing this game, cause I completely missed the boat on the current meta.

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The quote formatting sucks.  

And the whole point of building a deck that can counter Phil isn't to do it for the whole game, it's to do it for a turn, wipe their side of the board, and take control back.  It will be oscillatory, and, like I said, it's a framework, but I'm about 90% sure that it works.  The key is running it out of Sora lvl 1.  That 8 hp is essential for allowing you to drift down to the 2-3's, and which is why I think it needs some healing in addition to worlds. 

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As to who I'd rather listen to, it's the Internet, and the KHTCG forums at that.  I'll listen to you, Roxas, Dutpotd, Troth.  Maybe Darkwing or Umbreon (can't remember his handle on here), and that's it. I read it, but I take most with a grain of salt, because these are people who decry that an entire victory condition is "dead."  I just use equal amounts of hyperbole in my belief that Phil is hardly the doom of the beautiful machine known as Stopra :) 

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Fairbanks said:

As to who I'd rather listen to, it's the Internet, and the KHTCG forums at that.  I'll listen to you, Roxas, Dutpotd, Troth.  Maybe Darkwing or Umbreon (can't remember his handle on here), and that's it. I read it, but I take most with a grain of salt, because these are people who decry that an entire victory condition is "dead."  I just use equal amounts of hyperbole in my belief that Phil is hardly the doom of the beautiful machine known as Stopra :) 

 

He by no means is, there are just better cards to run...

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Sora_Yagami said:

Fairbanks said:

 

As to who I'd rather listen to, it's the Internet, and the KHTCG forums at that.  I'll listen to you, Roxas, Dutpotd, Troth.  Maybe Darkwing or Umbreon (can't remember his handle on here), and that's it. I read it, but I take most with a grain of salt, because these are people who decry that an entire victory condition is "dead."  I just use equal amounts of hyperbole in my belief that Phil is hardly the doom of the beautiful machine known as Stopra :) 

 

 

 

He by no means is, there are just better cards to run...

Like a Dark Deck!  *CoFF!!*  Erhem..  

Don't underestimate the POWAH of the DAHK SYDE!!

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It would really be nice if Dark Aggro could be viable against Light Aggro.  But as a Light Aggro player going against Dark Riku I could pwn the opponent in 2 turns with Kingdom Key alone.  But then there's Air Pirate for equipment hate....

Actually Dark Decks have a very nice advantage between Lock, Shock, and Barrel.  Basically gives you 11 Support value every turn that can't be Tidus'd and can survive a Monstro.  Add that to Dark Riku's 8 attack value and you've got 19 total attack value every turn.  Some people have been saying that maybe Dark Decks deserve a second look.  Maybe they do...

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Fairbanks said:

As to who I'd rather listen to, it's the Internet, and the KHTCG forums at that.  I'll listen to you, Roxas, Dutpotd, Troth.

For a second I thought I'd contributed something to this thread...then I realised I hadn't and everything felt good again.

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