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I looked on the web, but I could not find out. In the Empire, Is an Army Officer superior to a Stormtrooper Corps Officer?

 

I ask because what I found on the web is that black is for the Officers in the Stormtrooper corps and Grey for the Army Officers. During the battle of Endor, we see both of them. So, what I decided to do, is paint one Black and the other Grey, the third one will be either black or grey, depending on my following decision.

IMG_1217.jpg?t=1428242292

 

Which one should I make the Elite? Grey or Black?

 

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This is only my rationale and is only based upon some of the canonical SW content and my own military experience, so please take it with a grain or two of NaCl.

Imperial Stormtroopers exist outside the organizational structure of the Imperial Army and Imperial Navy, but would have the same rank structure. So officers with the equivalent rank of Commander in the Stormtrooper Corps, the Imperial Army, and Imperial Navy would all be of equal rank (and it would then depend on their date of promotion), but since the Stormtroopers are considered an elite unit, I could easily see a Stormtrooper officer being considered the "elite" one.

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Actually the olive/gray uniform is for both the Imperial Army and Imperial Navy. The black uniform is for Stormtrooper officers. Veers was an Imperial Army officer, hence the olive/gray uniform.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_military_uniforms

There is some variety among the enlisted and non-commissioned officers (NCOs) but for all intents and purposes with regard to Imperial Assault, the officers should probably be in either the olive/gray uniform or black if you're going for authenticity.

 

Otherwise, have fun painting them whatever color you want!

Edited by cliffetters

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I'm pretty sure the pink uniformed officers were higher in rank.... Could be wrong though. Memory isn't what it used to be. I think, can't really remember what the memory used to be either now that I think on it.

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Memory isn't what it used to be. I think, can't really remember what the memory used to be either now that I think on it.

 

Memory is funny that way...

...and I completely mean in the funny/ha-ha laughing sort of way. I saw memory a couple of weeks ago at a local stand up club. Memory killed it.

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Thanks for the answers. That's what I thought, but wanted to be sure.

 

I guess I'll make the black one (Stormtrooper Corps) the elite, like the SS (supposedly) were within the Wermacht or the Marine Corps within the US Army.

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As a Marine Officer I appreciate what appears to be your respectful intent.  However, the US Marine Corps has never been within the US Army.  This doesn't mean any disrespect to the US Army either.  I have a respect for all branches of our service, having served beside members of all branches in war.

 

                                                                                    DOD (Department of Defense, a government agency)

                                                  /                                                              |                                    \

DOA (Department of the Army, a government agency)        DOAF (Department of the Air Force, a government agency)        DON (Department of the Navy, a government agency)

                  |                                                                             |                                                                                                            /                           |                                  \

          The US Army                                                   The US Air Force                                                                               The US Navy     The US Marine Corps        The US Coast Guard (In wartime only)

 

 

We have a good reputation because we fight hard with less and accomplishing our mission is a high priority.  We are quick responders for our country due to special powers the president has to deploy the Marine Corps.  Again I'm assuming there are respectful intents in being compared to the SS and Stormtrooper Corps, but know that our ideology is more noble and moral than theirs too.  

Edited by Vault13

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We have a good reputation because we fight hard with less and accomplishing our mission is a high priority.  We are quick responders for our country due to special powers the president has to deploy the Marine Corps.  Again I'm assuming there are respectful intents in being compared to the SS and Stormtrooper Corps, but know that our ideology is more noble and moral than theirs too.  

Yes, it is not meant to be disrespectful and there is nothing in common between the SS and the Marines, that was really not what I meant. I'm glad you understood that part. I took the Marine exemple because I thought they were an Elite Military Corps working in conjunction with the Army in some operations.

 

Does it happen that they work with the Army sometimes, or did so in their history? Seeing as one is from the Department of the Navy and the other the Department of the Army, how would command work in such an operation?

 

 

PS: For those posting about the uniform colors, I already got that part and said so in my OP. What I'm looking for is which one should get the Elite status.

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Does it happen that they work with the Army sometimes, or did so in their history?

With, yes. I don't think it happens a ton, it's not like you have a platoon of Marines mixed in with 2 platoons of Soldiers to form a company. (USMC = Marines, US Army = Soldiers.)

But you could have units of both tasked with missions in the same area or even the same mission. In which case command would be decided in order of rank. Even though the names aren't the same, the E and O ratings are the same. So a E6 in the Army is the same rank as a E6 in the Core, even if they're called different things.

When I was in AIT, learning my job for the US Army, we had Marines in our school because the USMC doesn't have many training schools other than Infantry, or at least didn't back in the mid to late 80's... Some of our instructors were Marines, some were Army, and we obeyed them the same no matter which branch we were in, or what branch they were. I obeyed the command of the Gunny just the same as the Marines did.

The only difference was he was allowed to 'place hands' on the Marines, but couldn't do that to us.

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Hey Vault13! Thanks for your service. U.S. Army here, and I worked with a Marine LSB when my company was deployed to GTMO back in '96. Those cats were awesome! I loved it whenever we got to coordinate with Marines.

I didn't know about the special powers that the U.S. President has to deploy the Marine Corps. I was always under the impression that since the Navy projects U.S. military power around the world, and that Marines are a component of all the various fleets out there, it was basically a matter of "Oh look! There's trouble! We have a couple of Marines within spitting distance, let's send them in to hold ground until we can redeploy everyone else to protect our interests."

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As the original Imperial officers were all Brits I went with tradition and had the Navy outrank any other branch. So my elite officer is in the olive/gray uniform, and my two regular officers are in stormtrooper black.

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I ended up painting one of my officers grey, one black, and one white. I figure I'll probably use the white ISB Officer as the elite, but it really just depends on how many officers I'm using at a time. I generally use the black one first because it's a Stormtrooper Officer, which seems the most pertinent to most scenarios.

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Thanks for the answers. That's what I thought, but wanted to be sure.

 

I guess I'll make the black one (Stormtrooper Corps) the elite, like the SS (supposedly) were within the Wermacht or the Marine Corps within the US Army.

 

Please understand that I'm not trying to be critical, but I'm not at all certain that this is entirely appropriate, either for the Stormtrooper Corps or the SS ("Schutzstaffel" - literally, "protection squadron").

 

The Stormtrooper Corps – which was separate from the Imperial Army, and served under an independent Stormtrooper Command – was employed for boarding actions and attacking enemy positions, regular army troopers were used to secure ground.  They were certainly the elite, but not – so far as I can tell – subordinated to Army Command.

 

The progenitor of the “SS” was created in 1923 and was a small, volunteer paramilitary organization of NSDAP (“Nazi” Party) volunteers tasked with providing security for Party meetings in Munich.  It’s renamed and reformed into what is more commonly recognized as the “Schutz-Staffel” in 1925, the year Heinrich Himmler joins.  Under Himmler’s leadership (1929-1945), it would grow into one of the most powerful institutions in Nazi Germany.

 

You are most likely intending to refer to the Waffen-SS, the combat branch of the SS.  Although these units were autonomous and existed in parallel with the Wehrmacht (per Hitler’s desire), in practice they were placed under the operational control of German High Command (OKW and/ or OKH).  This normalized their TO&E, somewhat, bringing them more in-line with regular Heer units.

 

As it happens in many cases, the quality of individual units varied, but many Waffen-SS units gained a reputation for high morale and tenacity (in addition to their more nefarious association with war crimes).  Their reputation is further clouded, however, by the fact that they were an-all volunteer force until 1943 when manpower needs were met through conscription (as well as the earlier -- 1941 -- creation of foreign Waffen-SS units).

 

In other words, some Waffen-SS units were most certainly deserving of the “elite” label, whereas others were not.  Regardless, the Waffen-SS was declared a 

 

Removing completely the politics/ideology/organizational structures of the groups involved from the discussion (the Waffen-SS & USMC), I feel that the mission of Stormtroopers seems to fit that of the US Marines a little more closely: the Imperial Navy provides transport for the Imperial assault units par excellence (Stormtrooper) which get the job done.

 

No offense intended, of course, to the Imperial Navy. :)  

Edited by fast.git

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We're talking about the wrong war.

 

Stormtroopers (Sturmtruppen - "thrust troops") were first employed by the Germans in WWI as an alternative method of breaking enemy trenches - instead of the artillery barrage followed by an infantry charge used throughout most of the war  

 

The comparison to the US Marine Corp I believe to be pretty accurate (at least within the context of the era):

The Battle of Belleau Wood is where the Marines earned their nickname "Devil Dogs" when they routed the German position using (at the time) unconventional tactics akin to what the German Stormtroopers were trying to do: emphasis on rifle accuracy, squad based strategies, strong hand-to-hand combat skills.

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We're talking about the wrong war.

 

Stormtroopers (Sturmtruppen - "thrust troops") were first employed by the Germans in WWI as an alternative method of breaking enemy trenches - instead of the artillery barrage followed by an infantry charge used throughout most of the war  

 

The comparison to the US Marine Corp I believe to be pretty accurate (at least within the context of the era):

The Battle of Belleau Wood is where the Marines earned their nickname "Devil Dogs" when they routed the German position using (at the time) unconventional tactics akin to what the German Stormtroopers were trying to do: emphasis on rifle accuracy, squad based strategies, strong hand-to-hand combat skills.

 

I respectfully disagree... on a number of points.

 

I believe that most people (starting with Lucas, himself) draw comparisons between the Star Wars and WWII... and the (basically) fascist nature of the Empire certainly eases those comparisons to Nazi Germany.  Although I've always seen the Imperial Navy as far more of a British-analog (no offense to the Royal Navy) -- and that may have something to do with the gross inequities between the capabilities of the British and Germans in this arena -- the Stormtroopers have always struck me as for more Second World War than First.

 

You are partially correct, however, in your reference to the Imperial German Army's (Deutsches Heer) Stormtroopers (Ger: Sturmtruppen, or "thrust troops;" Stoßtruppe was also used).  Called variously "raiding troops," "storm men,” or even “hunting commandos" long before they were referred to as Stormtroopers, these units were originally formed from pioneer battalions tasked with destroying enemy strong-points (bunkers and machine gun nests, primarily).  By war's end, more then 30 German divisions had formed assault battalions.

 

Hand-picked and heavily-armed, this light infantry made use of Oskar von Hutier's aggressive infiltration tactics to overwhelm narrow segments of the line.  Their assaults were typically preceded by quick, but intense, artillery bombardments designed to throw the defenders into disarray.  As the barrage lifted, the defenders would be overwhelmed by shock troops specializing in close-quarters, intense combat.  Armed with an assortment of pistols, LMGs (Marsden and captured Lewis guns), the first SMGs (MP-18), and grenades... always grenades (their chief weapon, they would carry sacks of them into combat), they would bypass pockets of resistance and continue deeper behind enemy lines to sow confusion and paralyze counterattacks.

 

Although these achieved some successes before and during Operation Michael (Spring 1918), casualty rates were extremely high in such units and their successes could be limited by a defense in depth and an inability of the following German troops to maintain the advantage.

 

And the Germans were neither the only armies to make use of such troops, nor the first... in 1915 a French officer wrote a widely-read essay on the use of assault teams and, the following year, the Russians combined concentrated artillery and precision infantry assaults to punch through Austrian lines during the Brusilov Offensive in Galicia.  The British army adopted such tactics in 1917 (using both Canadian and Australian shock troops) with great success... with many contemporaries considering the British "infiltration techniques" superior to those of the Germans.  Even the Italians and Austro-Hungarians embraced these tactics, primarily against one another.

 

Regardless, I think we can all agree that Lucas' Stormtrooper Corps are intended to serve as shock/assault troops and -- in comparison to the Imperial Army, certainly -- should be considered among the best troops the Empire can field.  I mean...

 

"And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." -- Obi Wan Kenobi

 

...who can argue with that?  ;)

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

As a final point... whereas there is no denying that the US Marines fought valiantly (as did the US Army's 26th Division) at Belleau Wood (and everywhere else for that matter), there is some doubt as to whether or not their German foes named them "Devil Dogs" after the ferocious mountain dogs of Bavarian folklore.  The only contemporary accounts referring to the apocryphal naming are typically American, and usually get the German wrong... which should be Teufelshunde, and not Teufel Hunden.

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I agree that it's rank based as we don't really see an "Imperial Army" on screen. From what I remember, the Imperial Army was invented by WEG so RPG characters would have something weaker to fight than Stormtroopers.

 

So, black for low ranking officers (up to Captain) and grey is for field officers and above.

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I agree that it's rank based as we don't really see an "Imperial Army" on screen. From what I remember, the Imperial Army was invented by WEG so RPG characters would have something weaker to fight than Stormtroopers.

 

On screen you see the representatives of the Imperial Army as early as A New Hope  the conference room of the Death Star.

 

Lt. General Tagge, and Major General (Chief) Bast are given flag ranks in the Army, and even outrank the senior Imperial Fleet representative Commodore (Admiral) Motti.

 

You see Imperial Army officers as well in various Death Star scenes, including when they search the Millennium Falcon when it is captured.

 

You see Major General Veers in The Empire Strikes Back, both in dress uniform and combat field gear, and is arguably the most competent Imperial Officer in that movie.  The AT AT drivers are also Imperial Army troops.  Interestingly enough, the only time you see a Stormtrooper officer wear the command rank insignia and the Stormtrooper armor at the same time is in the cockpit of the AT AT as he stands next to Veers.

 

In Return of the Jedi, around the ground forces surrounding the Endor bunker are Imperial Army officers, as well as the AT ST drivers.

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