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Reuben What Is?

Campaign - Hard on Rebel Players?

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We're making an absolute blunder of the rules (pretty much got it figured out now), but we are 6-6. My mate is running all 4 rebels so he's having a hard time remembering all the tricks he's got, but I haven't used a non-mission agenda card yet.

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At the first go, we made a LOT of rules mistakes, but most of those were hard on both sides equally.

I won all but three missions, two of those were agenda cards, which are alot harder on the imp.

 

The worst part about this...I had some freakin amazing games where I brained so hard I couln't brain afterwards (some of those games were mentally more exhausting than playing a national tourney) and I won. My plans worked like a finely tuned machine, being just a few rotations ahead of my rebels and crushing them, even tough they played really, really amazingly (we're all board game veterans, but I'm the only tabletop player in the room).

 

And all I heard was: "This game is unbalanced." or "Rebels can't win" which is frustrating. But the most frustrating thing about this was, they never saw how freaking close most games were.

 

If you are a Rebel player it is easy to ignore what huge percentage of the game the imperial player presents.

 

P.S.: also on a side note, if you play thematically, the game is much easier for the rebels.

  • There were a few missions where it didn't really make sense for there to be a nexu,

He was obviously the pet of an officer

  • and Vader ran away in the Diala Story mission to secure the Win

Vader looked down at Diala catching her breath, deeming her not worthy an opponent. He deactivated his Lightsaber and strode into the darkness of the forest, where his silhouette faded before Fenn's  (RedRed) blaster bolts could find its mark.

Edited by derroehre

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I've been getting to play the Imperial side lately and another observation is the effectiveness of allies. Each time the Rebel has brought in an Ally it ends up costing them the game.

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If the Rebels have Gideon and can manage to pick up Fearless Leader and Allied Operations, they can deploy Rebel Troopers at a cost of 2. It's not something that's going to happen often, but if it does the Imperials are going to be in a tough spot. Especially later when 2 threat isn't worth much.

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We are being totally boned as rebels (won the first 2 missions, but have lost every one since, and we are 3 missions off the end), but most of those losses are really, really close. Some missions seem a little unbalanced (Fly Solo being the major one so far... seems likely a really hard one to win for the Rebels), but otherwise most have been fine.

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Either my Rebel players are first-rate, or I'm third-rate, but they're clearly ahead so far. Here's the campaign score to date:

 

Aftermath - Rebel close win.

High Moon - Rebel decisive win.

A New Threat - Imperial decisive win.

Homecoming - Rebel decisive win.

Fly Solo - Rebel decisive win.

Generous Donations - Imperial decisive win.

Dark Obsession - Rebel decisive win.

Incoming - Rebel close win.

 

The last side mission will be Sympathy for the Rebellion, which I may have a shot at winning, but Chain of Command is going to be very rough for me.

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Interestingly - myself and 2 other gamer friends recently started a campaign with each of them controlling 2 heroes.  We've played 4 missions and imperials are 1-3, but every single mission has come down to the last possible moment for the rebels.  I've never had more fun playing (even though I am the imperial).  The weird thing is, that I'm not noticing anything terribly different about strategies.  So, who knows.  I just hope this balance keeps up for us - cause the game has never been this much fun for me personally...

 

 

I think it's the 4 heroes. That's what the game was designed around, so that will be where it's the most fun. 

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We finished our campaign last night and the Rebels were 7-3. We lost the last mission and two back to back in the middle (can't remember the names atm), but the other wins were all slaughters on our end. The Imperial player didn't spend any of his xp or influence untill the final 3 missions, and really he only spend the majority of them right before Last Stand. We got hosed in Last Stand. We didn't make it past the first door.

 

If the Imps would have spent throughout the campaign, I feel like it would have been more balanced.

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I'm getting my butt handed to me as the Imp player. Have only won the first mission so far. We just played Under Siege this week and the rebels just sat in a room and kept doubling resting so I couldn't move them off the tiles haha.

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We're now 5 missions in and yet to win a single one, and 3 or 4 of those losses have been complete blowouts where we weren't even close. After each mission we ask our imperial (who is a really strong tactical player, but we're not bad either) what we could have done differently, and he just shrugs helplessly. A few times he points out that we could have followed a different strategy had we known what would happen during the mission, but of course we're not allowed to know that ahead of time.

 

This balance issue is also really hard to discuss online, because there will always be people coming in to say "no, in our group the imperial always loses." And I don't know how to say respectfully and tactfully that an imperial who always loses this game is probably just not very good at this kind of game, or else the group is playing a rule wrong that gives the rebels a huge advantage. Because as far as I can see, if you follow all the rules and the imperial plays well (and especially if they use Subversive Tactics, which is waaaay underrated and probably overpowered in our experience) the rebels have almost no chance to win unless they cheat and read the campaign book, and even then it's a long shot.

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We're now 5 missions in and yet to win a single one, and 3 or 4 of those losses have been complete blowouts where we weren't even close. After each mission we ask our imperial (who is a really strong tactical player, but we're not bad either) what we could have done differently, and he just shrugs helplessly. A few times he points out that we could have followed a different strategy had we known what would happen during the mission, but of course we're not allowed to know that ahead of time.

 

This balance issue is also really hard to discuss online, because there will always be people coming in to say "no, in our group the imperial always loses." And I don't know how to say respectfully and tactfully that an imperial who always loses this game is probably just not very good at this kind of game, or else the group is playing a rule wrong that gives the rebels a huge advantage. Because as far as I can see, if you follow all the rules and the imperial plays well (and especially if they use Subversive Tactics, which is waaaay underrated and probably overpowered in our experience) the rebels have almost no chance to win unless they cheat and read the campaign book, and even then it's a long shot.

I agree here. Our Imp player wasn't the most tactical-minded player, so we were able to out maneuver him in nearly every mission. Forgetting cards, not spending points. I plan to run through another campaign as the Imp player or do a rotating slot campaign soon.

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As a rebel I've lost Aftermath and that seems to be an investment for the future, things are going really smooth after that.

Edited by Ikon

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We have played a 2 heroes game (Diala and Gaarkhan) and so far here are our results :

 

- Aftermath = Rebel victory

- Sorry about the mess = Rebel victory

- A new threat = Rebel victory

- Armed and operational = Rebel victory

- Imperial hospitality = Rebel victory

- Celebration  = Imperial victory

- Temptation = Rebel victory

- Incoming = Rebel victory

- Indebted = Rebel victory

- Chain of command = Rebel victory

- Last stand = To be determined...

 

We're 3 experienced players so, we tought it would be closer. It seems that when Rebels stick to the mission objective and don't lose time by stoping to pay attention to the noise made by the imperial's troops, all missions can be won. Unless, we forgot to apply a critical rule and that's why the Rebels won most of the missions.

Edited by DarthButchbrune

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We've been playing the campaign, and so far, except for Aftermath, I've been winning as the Imperial Player. I've observed some errors on their behalf, but they're feeling like it's slanted against them. Is this usual? Or does it feel fairly balanced?

 

It's painstakingly balanced. If you're winning it's likely you being better than them rather than the game being stacked in your favour.

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We've been playing the campaign, and so far, except for Aftermath, I've been winning as the Imperial Player. I've observed some errors on their behalf, but they're feeling like it's slanted against them. Is this usual? Or does it feel fairly balanced?

 

It's painstakingly balanced. If you're winning it's likely you being better than them rather than the game being stacked in your favour.

 

I think this is only really true in the very broad general sense of lots of groups playing lots of games with lots of different combinations of heroes, imperial classes, items and upgrades. On that scale, sure, there's probably about 50:50 wins on each side.

 

But for any given group of individuals, and especially if their combination of heroes is a poor match for the Imperial's class, I think it's actually fairly likely for there to be a slant in one direction or the other, even before counting player skill. I also think that Imperial skill is a lot more potent than Rebel skill, because the Imperial has an information advantage that (with sufficient skill) he can magnify into a much larger tactical advantage.

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I play now the 2nd campaign using Subversive Tactics.

The Rebels are Dialla, Jyn, Mr. Havoc and the Wookie.

 

So far I have won everything (we are about halfway through) - they only won Diallas side-mission.

Edited by thePREdiger

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I've found that a lot can be won or lost based on the Imperial player's decision about what to run in their open groups.  I run Nexus when I can - and eventually royal guards (when the threat level gets there) - bleed, stun are crazy effective at slowing the rebels down.  And nexus can block hallways fairly good, too.

 

If you aren't thinking about your open deployments, you're probably going to fall behind the rebels if they focus hard on the objective.  IMO...

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Our group (4 players with many years of experience in tactical boardgames) are getting consistently creamed by the Imperial. It's not so much that he outmaneuvers us in combat, but simply that he's an excellent strategist and concentrates on either denying us access to mission-critical locations or just slowing us down enough for the scenario traps to completely **** us over.

I have to take issue with the scenario design. The campaign feels like a string of booby-traps: if you go too fast, you lose. If you go too slow, you lose. If you open the wrong door, you lose. If you spend actions to collect crates, you lose. If you didn't collect enough crates in previous missions, you lose.

This week we played Generous Donations and almost quit the campaign right there. We were doing quite well, by turn 4 we had cleared all enemy presence in the courtyard, so our wookie crashed through the door and activated the console. He got promptly gunned down (from full health) by the Veteran Elite E-Web with Show of Force that spawned right in front of him, and the Royal Guards shut down the consoles immediately after, before we got a chance to do anything about it. The game ended that very turn because we performed the mission-critical action we were instructed to perform. The level of frustration among the rebels is hard to describe.

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Yeah, I played Generous Donations as the Imperial the other night and felt really bad for the rebels. Knowing how the entire mission works, I could see a few viable strategies, but that mission in particular is really, really harsh about withholding crucial information about the basic mechanics of the mission, which makes it really easy for the rebels to accidentally guarantee their own loss just because they weren't allowed to know what their ultimate objectives were.

 

Reading the mission triggers to them made me feel like a bratty kid DMing DND -- "oh, you're turning LEFT? well then a DRAGON attacks and EATS you! you're dead! I win! mwahaha!"

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Reading the mission triggers to them made me feel like a bratty kid DMing DND -- "oh, you're turning LEFT? well then a DRAGON attacks and EATS you! you're dead! I win! mwahaha!"

Yeah, that sounds about right. Our IP was pretty smug, even told us it was our own stupid fault for opening the door with our last activation of the turn (conveniently forgetting that there had been an armored Nexu blocking it up until that moment, and it'd respawn and do so again next turn if we didn't open it when we got the chance).

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Our group is about to finish our first campaign. They've only won one mission so far: the one where you get Chewbacca. Ironically, having Chewbacca on their team caused them to lose a few other missions that they might have won otherwise. (15 immediate threat allows the IP to just put way too much on the board at round 1).

We're hoping the second campaign will be a little more balanced now that we all know what we're doing... but I gotta admit, this first run through, it was IP victory the whole way through.

I love the idea of campaign, but if it keeps up like this we'll definitely have to institute some house rules to make it more balanced.

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I must be seeing Generous Donations differently than everyone else. The way the rewards are setup, one team shouldn't "win" the mission. If the Rebels get all the tokens, that's 2000 credits for the mission. If they get none, the Imperial gets 5 influence. Either of those outcomes can result in a serious shift in power. Also, I do not see either of those as being outcomes the designers intended. I believe somewhere closer the middle of the extremes is what FFG had in mind on this one.

 

Ultimately, this is an optional side mission, and while the reward is "credits", it's fairly vague. Every other mission tells you exactly what you're getting, and you can look at the reward deck before choosing the mission. So the Rebels have zero room to complain when this only nets them the minimum 400 credits, they got what they were promised, even when they don't "win".

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I think there is some legitimate room to complain when they aren't told anything at all about what will be required of them after uploading the virus to progress the mission. From what I've read it sounds like quite a few Rebel groups get caught in a situation where

either the hero who does the upload is already wounded and thus incapable of defending terminals, or they upload with their second action and are thus unable to move into position to guard the other two terminals. If they haven't already taken the (possibly considerable) time to eliminate the Royal Guards (which they will probably avoid doing since other missions have already taught them to avoid spending time fighting if it can helped), this in turn lets the Imperial immediately capture two terminals before the Rebels can do anything else to prevent it.

The briefing only says they'll have to "hang around" (or some similar verbiage) but that's only meaningful in hindsight. On the first playthrough, the mission mechanics that are revealed after "progressing the mission" are hugely game changing, and the Imperial player can strategize around them while the Rebels are kept unnecessarily clueless. (It's their own virus, after all -- why wouldn't they have some notion of what they'd have to do to ensure its effectiveness?)

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Ultimately, this is an optional side mission, and while the reward is "credits", it's fairly vague. Every other mission tells you exactly what you're getting, and you can look at the reward deck before choosing the mission. So the Rebels have zero room to complain when this only nets them the minimum 400 credits, they got what they were promised, even when they don't "win".

I'm not complaining about the reward (or lack thereof), but about the mission design. Basically, what Taleden said.

That said, those 5 influence won't make future missions any easier.

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