Speed=0: Can't use defense tokens, Why?

[wjgo 98]

Why if a ship's speed is 0, can it not spend defense tokens?

 

I understand there are some situations that require the ship to go to 0 speed.  But what if a player chooses to slow their ship to 0?  What if you want to place you ship at some position, and it requires you to come to a stop?  Why can't you defend your otherwise normally functioning ship in a normal way?

[Handsome G 25]

Sitting ducks are easier to hit?

[Beatty 1,730]

Why if a ship's speed is 0, can it not spend defense tokens?

 

I understand there are some situations that require the ship to go to 0 speed.  But what if a player chooses to slow their ship to 0?  What if you want to place you ship at some position, and it requires you to come to a stop?  Why can't you defend your otherwise normally functioning ship in a normal way?

Probably more of a game mechanic to keep players from parking on a Objective and making the game stale. The game would be very boring in a game where kill points are the main objective and a couple VSD just sat in their deployment with their backs on the edge. Very very boring indeed.

[Serlo 12]

Especially problematic if you stop on a battlestation and get repairs every turn.  So it mitigates that tactic.

[kac 146]

Sitting ducks are easier to hit?

Yeah, I picture a lot of the defense tokens as micro turns and movement, not enough to be reflected on the map, but enough to make another shield take the hit, or to throw off the firing solution sufficiently to evade the hit. A non-moving ship can't do that.

[gylvan2002 37]

Its also to making overlapping worse.  In addition to the damage you are further punished by being vulnerable.  

[shasmalcoar 8]

Its also to making overlapping worse.  In addition to the damage you are further punished by being vulnerable.  

No, if you have been pushed down to that because of overlapping, your speed is temporarily 0 in the movement phase.

 

In the opponents attack phase you look at your speed dial and you are still at whatever speed you were planning on moving at as the speed dial hasn't been changed.

[Agatheron 657]

The defense tokens available for the most part assume some degree of motion on the part of the ship. Redirecting damage to another shield could involve angling into the incoming attack so as to have it hit shields on an angle, for example. Evade is pretty obvious. You can't evade if you're standing still. Scatter, for TIE Fighters is a movement by definition. The only one that could conceivably be used when at speed 0 could be "Brace for Impact." Even then, a "brace for impact" assumes that there is some degree of motion taking place.

[Rithrin 222]

It would have been better, I feel, for them to have allowed some defense while stationary, but not others. Evades and Scatters, obviously not. But bracing and redirecting should have. VSDs and other slower, tankier ships would be more powerful, sure, but they could have counter balanced it by increasing the effects of Evades at speeds above 2, or perhaps allow an additional dice or some other bonus for attacking a stationary ship.

[Beatty 1,730]

Well I hate to say it, kind of, but there are only three reasons for someone to want to park. 

 

1) Objective Parking. Situational since most objectives do not benefit you by sitting on them. Gives the VSD the real advantage here but takes away from the fun of the game.

 

2) Parking on the Station. Hey let's repair every round! I would put this in the Lame department and again takes away from the over all fun of the game.

 

3) Parking your Rear against an edge or something. Hey let's Make the enemy come to me and have to face my front arc and have issues maneuvering since I'm on the edge and they will have to fly through my front arc again if they don"t want to fly off the edge. Super Lame Lame Lame Lame......Lame!

 

I am very glad they saw fit to prevent players from wanting to use this tactic since it only takes away from the over all fun of the game and would only give temptation to use cheese to get an advantage. 

 

Thank you FFG.

[Deathseed 1,738]

The defense tokens available for the most part assume some degree of motion on the part of the ship. Redirecting damage to another shield could involve angling into the incoming attack so as to have it hit shields on an angle, for example. Evade is pretty obvious. You can't evade if you're standing still. Scatter, for TIE Fighters is a movement by definition. The only one that could conceivably be used when at speed 0 could be "Brace for Impact." Even then, a "brace for impact" assumes that there is some degree of motion taking place.

 

Well yeah, but not explicitly who is doing the moving.

 

That said, you ever try to bring something to a dead halt in zero G? It's nigh impossible.

 

Not that I care. It's a game balance mechanic, and I'm perfectly happy with that. Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Deathseed

[InvisibleCalm 157]

Ramming can cause a temporary speed of 0? Are there any speed related criticals that would cause your speed to fall?

[Vertrucio 33]

I'm pretty sure that no defense at speed 0, the setup zone limits, and damage on collisions are a direct response to certain X-Wing lists that involve deliberate bumping to stall forward movement, or parking large turreted ships in such a way that you can only approach their front.

[Beatty 1,730]

Ramming can cause a temporary speed of 0? Are there any speed related criticals that would cause your speed to fall?

Ahh, yes but because your speed dial is still set to whatever speed you were going, you do not suffer the effects of having a Movment of 0. So you still get to use tokens.

The only way you will suffer from this rule is if you purposely set your movement to 0.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Beatty

[ransburger 256]

Ramming can cause a temporary speed of 0? Are there any speed related criticals that would cause your speed to fall?

There's a critical that allows your opponent to decrease your speed by one, or do something else that I can't remember.

 

Made my VSD a sitting duck because I also had the critical that prevented it from having command tokens.

[InvisibleCalm 157]

 

Ramming can cause a temporary speed of 0? Are there any speed related criticals that would cause your speed to fall?

Ahh, yes but because your speed dial is still set to whatever speed you were going, you do not suffer the effects of having a Movment of 0. So you still get to use tokens.

The only way you will suffer from this rule is if you purposely set your movement to 0.

 

 

Off topic, but if the speed counter doesn't actually decrease, it's conceivable that two large slow moving ships could actually get stuck continuously colliding into each other (assuming no nav commands/tokens are immediately available)?

[clontroper5 4,233]

Ramming can cause a temporary speed of 0? Are there any speed related criticals that would cause your speed to fall?

Ahh, yes but because your speed dial is still set to whatever speed you were going, you do not suffer the effects of having a Movment of 0. So you still get to use tokens.

The only way you will suffer from this rule is if you purposely set your movement to 0.

 

Off topic, but if the speed counter doesn't actually decrease, it's conceivable that two large slow moving ships could actually get stuck continuously colliding into each other (assuming no nav commands/tokens are immediately available)?

yep and they would both take 1 damage card every time it happened, so 2 a turn... OUCH!

[InvisibleCalm 157]

 

 

 

Ramming can cause a temporary speed of 0? Are there any speed related criticals that would cause your speed to fall?

Ahh, yes but because your speed dial is still set to whatever speed you were going, you do not suffer the effects of having a Movment of 0. So you still get to use tokens.

The only way you will suffer from this rule is if you purposely set your movement to 0.

 

Off topic, but if the speed counter doesn't actually decrease, it's conceivable that two large slow moving ships could actually get stuck continuously colliding into each other (assuming no nav commands/tokens are immediately available)?

yep and they would both take 1 damage card every time it happened, so 2 a turn... OUCH!

 

 

Might be a tactic for ISD removal... Or maybe try to get an Imperial player to cross some SDs into head-on paths.  I bet that would be difficult to pull off, though. 

[clontroper5 4,233]

Plus if you do this to your opponent, they will also get to shoot at you with there front arc, yea that one that is capable of 1 shoting itself (did you this nk of that? A victory has enough potential damage out of its front arc to kill another victory in 1 SHOT! mind you it requires a perfect roll and 0 defense tokens but still possible)

[Perakkir 108]

It's already happened...lol

[Vertrucio 33]

I played a full demo where my opponent stopped a VSD. I nearly blew it up in one turn.

 

Same for ramming. My corvette did 1 damage to the VSD when it accidentally rammed the ship. But he unloaded with 2 arcs of fire into at it and only due to bad rolling did I not lose it that turn.

 

The smaller rebel ships cannot afford to lose that 1 health, and the VSDs guns are so powerful up close that you do not want to risk it.

[patrious 35]

The defense tokens available for the most part assume some degree of motion on the part of the ship. Redirecting damage to another shield could involve angling into the incoming attack so as to have it hit shields on an angle, for example. Evade is pretty obvious. You can't evade if you're standing still. Scatter, for TIE Fighters is a movement by definition. The only one that could conceivably be used when at speed 0 could be "Brace for Impact." Even then, a "brace for impact" assumes that there is some degree of motion taking place.

 

 

THIS!! SO MUCH THIS!!

Not only is it fluffy! It makes sense from a game balance standpoint.

*tips hat*

[Rottenreason 123]

Especially problematic if you stop on a battlestation and get repairs every turn.  So it mitigates that tactic.

I didn't even think of this but I thought with the evade defense tokens how could it work if your sitting still. The shield redirect in my mind should work no matter if you are moving or not. But all in all it's a good tactic that you have to be moving to use.

[FrozenFlesh 57]

The defense tokens available for the most part assume some degree of motion on the part of the ship. Redirecting damage to another shield could involve angling into the incoming attack so as to have it hit shields on an angle, for example. Evade is pretty obvious. You can't evade if you're standing still. Scatter, for TIE Fighters is a movement by definition. The only one that could conceivably be used when at speed 0 could be "Brace for Impact." Even then, a "brace for impact" assumes that there is some degree of motion taking place.

 

 

THIS!! SO MUCH THIS!!

Not only is it fluffy! It makes sense from a game balance standpoint.

*tips hat*

Only evade and scatter involve moving, and only squads can have scatter, and they don't have a set Speed, so evade is the only token, that makes sense fluff wise.

Redirect is shifting energy from a less important shield to a more important one, before the impact.

So I also think this is more of a Game balance thing. But I agree with the Game designers decisions, the ships should keep moving, otherwise it would be boring.

[Chioxin 37]

I fear this game might turn into "Bumper Ships"...