Looking for confirmation - Crits deal one damage PLUS face-up effect?

[Grand Marshal 1]

Hi guys!

 

Does a crit always subtract one hull (when shields are down) PLUS deal it's face-up effect, a-la X-Wing? Or, does a crit dimply deal it's face-up effect, and not automatically subtract one hull from the opponent's hull zone (like a regular hit)?

 

Please let me know and thanks for the input!

 

-GM

[Animewarsdude 3,639]

Crit don't go through shields, the rulebook says the first damage card you receive from an attack with a crit result must be face up. I'm fairly certain crits are treated the same as in x-wing as a damage with a crit effect.

[Handsome G 25]

Page 5 of the Rules Reference:  Dice Icons

Critical :  If the attacker and defender are ships, this icon adds one damage to the damage total and can trigger a critical effect.

 

Page 4 of the Rules Reference:  Critical Effects

• The attacker can resolve only one critical effect per attack.
• The standard critical effect is ": if the defender is dealt at least one damage card by this attack, deal the first damage card faceup."

 

 

So, each is a damage.  Multiple crits do not cause multiple face-ups, but do cause multiple instances of damage.  A damage card must have been dealt to cause the effect to kick off.  So, the only way to cause a crit effect when the hull still has shields, is to bypass the shields... so you would deal damage cards... Luke maybe. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Handsome G

[Grand Marshal 1]

Thank you Animewarsdude for your response.

 

Thank you Handsome G for the clarification.

 

You're all awesome!  

[Son0fGun 11]

On one given atack: Any crit from a ship deals 1 point of damage like a regular hit. After shields are peeled, if any damage continues to hull, the first damage is a crit if any crits were rolled. Just 1 no matter the number of crits rolled. Then more damage can be applied. It is considered a hull damage.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Son0fGun

[MaverickNZ 591]

Lots of people seem to be forgetting (or just neglecting), that the crit result on the dice isnt directly what does the face up damage card.

 

When you roll at least one critical hit result, you may resolve one (and only one) critical effect.

The default critical effect that all ships can apply is to deal the first damage card to a ship face up.

However there are many expansion cards that offer alternate critical effects, so it is important that we don't get in the mindset of "Its a crit result so the damage card must be face up" because we might more often than not, want to resolve a different effect instead once a wider variety of expansion cards are released

 

Just my 2c

[MarkNorfolk 17]

Lots of people seem to be forgetting (or just neglecting), that the crit result on the dice isnt directly what does the face up damage card.

 

When you roll at least one critical hit result, you may resolve one (and only one) critical effect.

The default critical effect that all ships can apply is to deal the first damage card to a ship face up.

However there are many expansion cards that offer alternate critical effects, so it is important that we don't get in the mindset of "Its a crit result so the damage card must be face up" because we might more often than not, want to resolve a different effect instead once a wider variety of expansion cards are released

 

Just my 2c

I get the feeling that this game mechanic is going to be explained quite a lot....

 

Cheers

Mark

[Ghost Dancer 401]

I get the feeling that this game mechanic is going to be explained quite a lot....

 

 

Yep. There are already several topics asking about this. 

[FPAlpha 0]

Page 5 of the Rules Reference:  Dice Icons

Critical :  If the attacker and defender are ships, this icon adds one damage to the damage total and can trigger a critical effect.

 

Page 4 of the Rules Reference:  Critical Effects

• The attacker can resolve only one critical effect per attack.
• The standard critical effect is ": if the defender is dealt at least one damage card by this attack, deal the first damage card faceup."

 

 

So, each is a damage.  Multiple crits do not cause multiple face-ups, but do cause multiple instances of damage.  A damage card must have been dealt to cause the effect to kick off.  So, the only way to cause a crit effect when the hull still has shields, is to bypass the shields... so you would deal damage cards... Luke maybe. 

 

Still a little confused by this.

 

Let's assume the enemy ship i'm shooting has 2 shields left and i roll 4 hits, one of them is a critical hit.

 

What would be the correct procedure in handling those hits, i.e. at which point would the face up damage card come into play?

 

Option A:

 

2 hits are cancelled and 2 hits (including the critical hit) are hitting the hull, the critical hit causes a face up damage card to be drawn

 

 

Option B:

 

2 hits are cancelled (one of them was the critical hit) and 2 normal hits go against the hull causing normal damage without turning a damage card face up?

 

 

The timing is what confuses me (or the whole rule) so who would decide at which point the critical hit comes into effect? Does it matter at all at which point the critical hit causes a hit? If not then one critical hit is enough from a single attack roll to cause a face up damage card as soon as the shields are gone (if there are enough hits that is and the shields don't soak all the damage).

[1123581321345589144 94]

The thing is, the damage isn't "canceled" by shields, it's just that shields take the damage before the hull. You would still resolve the default critical effect: The first damage card dealt is dealt face up.

 

If I roll two regular damage and one critical damage against an arc that has 3 shields left, it will remove all those shields, and I can resolve the default critical effect, which is that the first damage card I deal will be dealt face up. However, I didn't deal any damage cards, so the effect doesn't do anything.

 

If I roll the same results against a ship with 2 shields on the arc I'm hitting, I would destroy the shields and deal one damage card, and be able to resolve the default critical effect. This time, however, I did deal a damage card, so when I trigger the critical effect it actually will have an effect, and that card will be dealt face up.

Edited March 31, 2015 by 1123581321345589144

[Truegreek 170]

What happens is after defense tokens, 4 damage is taken. You have at least one critical effect to resolve, so you declare the standard effect. The first 2 damage go against the shields, then when the first damage card is drawn, it is face up per the critical effect. After that is resolved, a second card is drawn. The way I explained it to people is its like spending charges on descent, rather than crits in x wing

[Adlerson 10]

(I realize I was wrong, how the hell do you delete posts?)

Edited March 31, 2015 by Adlerson

[Agatheron 657]

I think that's why Dodonna's Pride is so effective:
 
"Blue Crit: Cancel all attack dice to deal 1 faceup damage card to the defender."
 
In this case, the shields may remain intact, but if the crit result comes up on a blue dice, you can hand a fully shielded ship a faceup damage card. Nasty for such a little ship.

[Blue Seven 38]

Another thing is that you get to trigger a critical effect whether the damage goes through the shields or not. It's just that the default critical action has no effect if no damage cards are dealt.

For example, if you have overload pulse and roll 1 blue crit against a facing with at least 1 shield it removes a shield and you can exhaust the defence tokens by meeting the conditions for the pulse and triggering it.

Edit: what aga said...

Edited March 31, 2015 by Blue Seven

[NewTroski 120]

It seems like some people are saying you have to break through shields to get a crit effect, but that is just for the default effect, correct? By my current understanding, with something like Assault Concussion Missiles, the crit effect will apply whether you have broken through the shields or not.

[1123581321345589144 94]

It seems like some people are saying you have to break through shields to get a crit effect, but that is just for the default effect, correct? By my current understanding, with something like Assault Concussion Missiles, the crit effect will apply whether you have broken through the shields or not.

This is absolutely correct. You don't need to break through shields to trigger a critical, it's just that the default critical effect doesn't do anything unless you break through shields.

[Adlerson 10]

It seems like some people are saying you have to break through shields to get a crit effect, but that is just for the default effect, correct? By my current understanding, with something like Assault Concussion Missiles, the crit effect will apply whether you have broken through the shields or not.

This is absolutely correct. You don't need to break through shields to trigger a critical, it's just that the default critical effect doesn't do anything unless you break through shields.

This is where I was confused. Thanks for clearing it up.

[1123581321345589144 94]

This is where I was confused. Thanks for clearing it up.

It's kind of a weird rule, and not like a lot of other games. It makes upgrades like Dodonna's Pride really scary (as mentioned by Agatheron) and makes other cards like Assault Concussion Missiles pretty frightening, too.

[NewTroski 120]

I think a lot of the confusion is from "leftover" XWM rules still floating around in people's heads.

[Agatheron 657]

 

This is where I was confused. Thanks for clearing it up.

It's kind of a weird rule, and not like a lot of other games. It makes upgrades like Dodonna's Pride really scary (as mentioned by Agatheron) and makes other cards like Assault Concussion Missiles pretty frightening, too.

 

 

Dodonna's pride combined with Dodonna himself could have you really screwing over your opponent with choice crits on a fully shielded ship.

[rowdyoctopus 1,412]

Page 5 of the Rules Reference: Dice Icons

Critical : If the attacker and defender are ships, this icon adds one damage to the damage total and can trigger a critical effect.

Page 4 of the Rules Reference: Critical Effects

• The attacker can resolve only one critical effect per attack.
• The standard critical effect is ": if the defender is dealt at least one damage card by this attack, deal the first damage card faceup."

So, each is a damage. Multiple crits do not cause multiple face-ups, but do cause multiple instances of damage. A damage card must have been dealt to cause the effect to kick off. So, the only way to cause a crit effect when the hull still has shields, is to bypass the shields... so you would deal damage cards... Luke maybe.

Still a little confused by this.

Let's assume the enemy ship i'm shooting has 2 shields left and i roll 4 hits, one of them is a critical hit.

What would be the correct procedure in handling those hits, i.e. at which point would the face up damage card come into play?

Option A:

2 hits are cancelled and 2 hits (including the critical hit) are hitting the hull, the critical hit causes a face up damage card to be drawn

Option B:

2 hits are cancelled (one of them was the critical hit) and 2 normal hits go against the hull causing normal damage without turning a damage card face up?

The timing is what confuses me (or the whole rule) so who would decide at which point the critical hit comes into effect? Does it matter at all at which point the critical hit causes a hit? If not then one critical hit is enough from a single attack roll to cause a face up damage card as soon as the shields are gone (if there are enough hits that is and the shields don't soak all the damage).

As others have pointed out, the timing does not matter. You total up the damage you are doing. Then apply all the damage. If at least one die was a crit you can resolve a critical effect. The default effect is that the first (if any) damage card dealt is dealt face up.

EDIT: I can't English.

Edited March 31, 2015 by rowdyoctopus

[Serlo 12]

It helps to think of it NOT like it "subtracts one hull".  This has sort of lead to some confusion regarding several rules and cards in the game.  

 

Crits count as one damage.  If you have at least one crit rolled then the first damage card dealt is face up.  Nice and simple.  And of course damage cards aren't dealt until shields are gone or a special effect allows you to apply them like overlapping ships or Lukes ability to ignore shields.

 

 

Just my 2 cents for anyone reading that's struggling with the damage/crit applications and/or rules terminology.