Critical hits and damage absortion

[MrHobbles 14]

Hi guys,

 

I've read the rules a couple of times now, and there's one particular area I'm not clear on, and that's how critical hits are handled when shields, brace, etc, are in play.

 

As an example:

 

1. I fire on a ship hull which has 2 shields with 6 dice (3 red 3 blue, but doesn't matter), and I roll 4 hits and 1 crit, for a total of 5 damage.

2. The defender chooses the brace action to half the damage, rounded up, making the damage 3.

3. 2 of that damage brings the shield down, with the last damage going through as a hull hit.

 

What happens in this scenario?

 

1. I'm wondering if when the 5 is halved, it doesn't get rid of the crit (Perhaps priority goes to the normal hits to be removed first?). So that there's 2 normal and 1 crit going through.

2. When hitting the shield, do the normal hits get priority to be used first, so that the crit goes through to the hull? Or is the crit absorbed first so that only a normal hit goes through to the hull?

 

Cheers!

 

Edit: Meant brace rather than evade!

Edited March 29, 2015 by MrHobbles

[Belamont 59]

Evade tokens don't half damage. They either cancel out or reroll 1 die at difference ranges. Your thinking of the Brace token.

1) When the damage is halved the Crit doesn't disappear.
 

2) Normal hits are used first then Crits. Face up damage cards are dealt when the Crit is dealt to the hull.

[Deathseed 1,705]

Hi guys,

 

I've read the rules a couple of times now, and there's one particular area I'm not clear on, and that's how critical hits are handled when shields, brace, etc, are in play.

 

As an example:

 

1. I fire on a ship hull which has 2 shields with 6 dice (3 red 3 blue, but doesn't matter), and I roll 4 hits and 1 crit, for a total of 5 damage.

2. The defender chooses the brace action to half the damage, rounded up, making the damage 3.

3. 2 of that damage brings the shield down, with the last damage going through as a hull hit.

 

What happens in this scenario?

 

1. I'm wondering if when the 5 is halved, it doesn't get rid of the crit (Perhaps priority goes to the normal hits to be removed first?). So that there's 2 normal and 1 crit going through.

2. When hitting the shield, do the normal hits get priority to be used first, so that the crit goes through to the hull? Or is the crit absorbed first so that only a normal hit goes through to the hull?

 

Cheers!

 

Edit: Meant brace rather than evade!

 

Think of the crit result as a damage result first (since it counts as both). The crit aspect of the die is basically a trigger saying that since you rolled one (or more) crit, you'll get to flip the first damage card face up when damage is dealt. But only if damage actually makes it through to the hull.

 

So if the total damage never penetrates to the hull (do to defense tokens, strong shield, etc.) then the crit never gets to trigger. But if (after all the math and defense tokens is done) the ships hull actually takes damage, and a crit was rolled on the attack...KERPLOWIE. "Sir, we've just lost our bridge deflector shields!"

 

This is where abilities that allow you to force rerolls on chosen dice or eliminate a chosen die from the attackers roll get to be important to force a reroll or elimination of crit dice.

 

It's one of the things that make Luke scary, since he gets to count crit rolls in the same way ships do (which fighters without bomber can't do), gets to ignore the shield facing he's attacking, and rolls a black die to do it.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Deathseed

[Forensicus 883]

Just check the Critical Effect section page 4 in Rules Reference

[rowdyoctopus 1,409]

Evade tokens don't half damage. They either cancel out or reroll 1 die at difference ranges. Your thinking of the Brace token.

1) When the damage is halved the Crit doesn't disappear.

2) Normal hits are used first then Crits. Face up damage cards are dealt when the Crit is dealt to the hull.

This isn't quite right. No damage is applied "first". The critical symbol adds one damage to the damage pool, then also allows you to trigger a critical effect. Many upgrade cards have critical effects, but the standard effect any ship can trigger is that the first damage card drawn is dealt face up. Even if you use your critical to trigger an upgrade, it still adds one damage to the damage pool. Edited March 29, 2015 by rowdyoctopus

[MrHobbles 14]

 

Evade tokens don't half damage. They either cancel out or reroll 1 die at difference ranges. Your thinking of the Brace token.

1) When the damage is halved the Crit doesn't disappear.

 

2) Normal hits are used first then Crits. Face up damage cards are dealt when the Crit is dealt to the hull.

This isn't quite right. No damage is applied "first". The critical symbol adds one die to the damage pool, then also allows you to trigger a critical effect. Many upgrade cards have critical effects, but the standard effect any ship can trigger is that the first damage card drawn is dealt face up. Even if you use your critical to trigger an upgrade, it still adds one damage to the damage pool.

 

 

I see, so if a crit goes through, I can choose to either flip n of the first damage cards over (n being the number of crits I rolled), activate n number of critical effects (ie. From upgrade cards, etc), or a combination of both?

Edited March 29, 2015 by MrHobbles

[shasmalcoar 8]

No, only the first card is turned face up or one critical effect triggered. Doesn't matter how many crits rolled.

Unless you have an upgrade that allows more

Edited March 29, 2015 by shasmalcoar

[Commander Kahlain 237]

If you are flipping up a card, N always equals 1.  No matter how many crit icons you roll.

 

[Deathseed 1,705]

If you are flipping up a card, N always equals 1.  No matter how many crit icons you roll.

 

 

Ninjas. Ninjas everywhere!

[Funk Fu master 819]

Hang on.

My understanding is that when a crit is rolled, it triggers a critical effect.

The standard critical effect is "the first damage card delt by this attack is delt face up"

Upgrades with a crit symbol allow you to buy other effects that can be used instead of the standard effect.

related question. If you roll 2 crits, can you trigger 2 different effects? For instance assault concussion missiles and a standard crit effect?

[Adlerson 10]

No, only the first card is turned face up or one critical effect triggered. Doesn't matter how many crits rolled.

Unless you have an upgrade that allows more

So with concussion missiles you get to flip a damage card due to a crit hit OR trigger the extra damage from the missiles, even if you rolled (for instance) 3 crits, correct? There is no 'and' in this, right?

Adlerson

[ScottieATF 2,864]

Only one critical effect per attack. The standard being the first damage card face-up. If you trigger a different one it supercedes the standard.

[shasmalcoar 8]

No, only the first card is turned face up or one critical effect triggered. Doesn't matter how many crits rolled.

Unless you have an upgrade that allows more

So with concussion missiles you get to flip a damage card due to a crit hit OR trigger the extra damage from the missiles, even if you rolled (for instance) 3 crits, correct? There is no 'and' in this, right?

Adlerson

Page 22 states you can only ever trigger one crit effect, either an upgrade crit or a face up damage card.

[Adlerson 10]

Sweet, thanks guys.

Adlerson

[Mward1984 192]

It might be more helpful to not think of crits in the same way as they are in X-Wing, and more how Surge icons work in Descent.

 

Basically, crit or hit does one damage each, but rolling a crit provides you with the ability to use 1 crit effect you have available, be that a face up damage card, or a card effect.

[MrHobbles 14]

Thanks guys, I think that clears up most (all) of my confusion. So crits count as normal damage up until damage goes through to the hull - if it goes through to the hull, then if one or more crits were rolled then you can activate a critical effect, which is either turning one of the damage cards face up, or activating a critical effect on an upgrade.

[rowdyoctopus 1,409]

Keep in mind, shields do not "cancel" a critical hit. You can activate a critical effect even if the target still has shields. It just so happens that the standard critical effect only has a benefit if the target's shields were removed/avoided.

[rowdyoctopus 1,409]

Thanks guys, I think that clears up most (all) of my confusion. So crits count as normal damage up until damage goes through to the hull - if it goes through to the hull, then if one or more crits were rolled then you can activate a critical effect, which is either turning one of the damage cards face up, or activating a critical effect on an upgrade.

Not quite, see my last post. You can ALWAYS activate a critical effect. It just so happens that the standard one only interacts with damage cards, which means damage to the hull.

[MrHobbles 14]

Aha, makes sense! Thanks.

[Wes Janson 1,184]

Sounds good. Makes me love my Victory I that much more. Now if only those pesky Rebel frigates would wander into my short range guns.

[Ghost Dancer 400]

So crits count as normal damage up until damage goes through to the hull 

 

Not necessarily - some crit effects (e.g. Overload Pulse) trigger before damage dealing and defense tokens. So it breaks down like this:

 

1. Roll your attack pool.

2. Assign accuracy results (if applicable).

3. Defender may use 1 or more available defense tokens. Note that a redirect could remove a crit dice at this point.

4. If you have 1 or more crit icons, you may resolve 1 crit effect.

5. Deal damage. If you used the standard crit, you deal the first damage card face-up.

 

Hope that helps?

 

Edit: Corrected

Edited March 30, 2015 by Ghost Dancer

[MaxTeranous 206]

 

So crits count as normal damage up until damage goes through to the hull 

 

Not necessarily - some crit effects (e.g. Overload Pulse) trigger before damage dealing and defense tokens. So it breaks down like this:

 

1. Roll your attack pool.

2. If you have 1 or more crit icons, you may resolve 1 crit effect (if applicable at this time).

3. Assign accuracy results (if applicable).

4. If you have 1 or more crit icons and you have not yet resolved a crit effect, you may resolve 1 crit effect (if applicable at this time).

5. Defender may use 1 or more available defense tokens. Note that a redirect could remove a crit dice at this point.

6. If you have 1 or more crit icons and you have not yet resolved a crit effect, you may resolve 1 crit effect (if applicable at this time). 

7. Deal damage. If you have 1 or more crit icons and you have not yet resolved a crit effect, you may resolve 1 crit effect. If you have no crit effects from upgrade cards, this is when you apply the standard crit which is deal the first damage card face-up.

 

Hope that helps?

 

 

That's not accurate, the only place you can resolve a critical effect is at the beginning of the "resolve damage" step (Rules ref pg 2 & also pg 4).

[Ghost Dancer 400]

That's not accurate, the only place you can resolve a critical effect is at the beginning of the "resolve damage" step (Rules ref pg 2 & also pg 4).

 

 

Ah my bad. So does that mean that getting a crit with Overload Pulse means the defender gets to use their defense tokens, and then the crit effect exhausts any remaining tokens?

[ScottieATF 2,864]

The above is correct. Overload Pulse, or any crit effect, does not come into play until after defense tokens are spent.

[MaxTeranous 206]

 

That's not accurate, the only place you can resolve a critical effect is at the beginning of the "resolve damage" step (Rules ref pg 2 & also pg 4).

 

 

Ah my bad. So does that mean that getting a crit with Overload Pulse means the defender gets to use their defense tokens, and then the crit effect exhausts any remaining tokens?

 

 

Indeed, it softens up the target nicely for a 2nd attack though