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If Stormtroopers aren`t Army, then who is?.. And how does local Police look?

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In the Adversaries chapter in the Core Rulebook, they say that Stormtroopers are not part of the army, but a sperate corps of dedicated shock troops.

It says that they perform missions that regular  army troops would be unable or unwilling to accomplish.

 

Ok, so who are these Army Troops and how do they look? Shouldn`t there be more of them around than Stormtroopers who seem to be all over the place?

Naval troopers are listed, but not Army. Can someone explain?

I am sure my players wouldn`t think twice about only meeting stormtroopers when it comes to imperial adversaries, but I would like to know.

 

On a similar note, how does local law and police officers look? I know this may vary a lot(!) from world to world, but are there any good, known examples?

I am going to use Tatooine and would like to know how police might look there.

On a place like Nar Shaddaa, another place I will use, I guess all forms of security is privatized.

 

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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Planetary_Security_Forces

 

Those three links look like a good start.

 

As for Nar Shaddaa, anything from swoop gangs to elite mercenary units would provide protection and order *somewhere* on the planet.  I would expect it would mainly depend on what Hutt Clan is in charge of the area and if they think it is a valuable area or not.

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Desert Stormtroopers could serve just fine as your police-state law-enforcers around ports and stations on Tatooine.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Desert_stormtrooper

 

They still haven't found the droids they're looking for.

 

I'm with DarkHorse on Nar Shaddaa though, Hutt Mercenaries will be just fine.  I wouldn't use a Swoop gang, I'd use distinct mercenary thugs, only because I might want my PCs to run afoul of the Swoop Bikers as a separate entity from the local Hutt lord's thugs.

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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Planetary_Security_Forces

 

Those three links look like a good start.

 

As for Nar Shaddaa, anything from swoop gangs to elite mercenary units would provide protection and order *somewhere* on the planet.  I would expect it would mainly depend on what Hutt Clan is in charge of the area and if they think it is a valuable area or not.

 

Thank you. Would you say it is likely that they are more common or usual to run into than stormtroopers? It doesn`t look like it in the movies. Would you use Naval Troopers, mechanically?

As for local, non-imperial law, do you think there would just be like one single marshal(and maybe a deputy) for each town on Tatooine, the planet only has like 200 000 inhabitants.

Edited by RodianClone

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I'm assuming that's for DarkHorse, but I'm here so you have to deal with my posts, lol.

 

So... Naval Troopers, I figure, would be like the dudes in black on board the star destroyers and death star and such.  They're Navy, so they're there to well... "sail" ships, space ones.  Crew them, if you prefer, lol.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper

 

They're basically Imperial Marines, even if they aren't regularly referred to as such.  They're at least considered marines when they're on ships.  But the Empire has so many of them, you can call them "elite" (snarky remarks about their accuracy aside) if you want, but they're flipping everywhere that the Empire is.

 

When I hear the word "elite" I immediately assume that also means "fewer than regular" but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I would say that "regular" Imperial army soldiers would be encountered less than stormtroopers would be.  If you're going to have Imperial walkers or tanks, you're going to meet regular army. 

 

If you're on an Imperial capital ship, you'll have more regular navy than stormtroopers.

 

But by and large, planetside, I think you'll run into more Stormtroopers everywhere.

 

Also via the "new" cannon established over the last two decades, many stormtroopers are still clones, just not Fett clones.

Edited by CrunchyDemon

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I'm assuming that's for DarkHorse, but I'm here so you have to deal with my posts, lol.

 

So... Naval Troopers, I figure, would be like the dudes in black on board the star destroyers and death star and such.  They're Navy, so they're there to well... "sail" ships, space ones.  Crew them, if you prefer, lol.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper

 

They're basically Imperial Marines, even if they aren't regularly referred to as such.  They're at least considered marines when they're on ships.  But the Empire has so many of them, you can call them "elite" (snarky remarks about their accuracy aside) if you want, but they're flipping everywhere that the Empire is.

 

When I hear the word "elite" I immediately assume that also means "fewer than regular" but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I would say that "regular" Imperial army soldiers would be encountered less than stormtroopers would be.  If you're going to have Imperial walkers or tanks, you're going to meet regular army. 

 

If you're on an Imperial capital ship, you'll have more regular navy than stormtroopers.

 

But by and large, planetside, I think you'll run into more Stormtroopers everywhere.

 

Also via the "new" cannon established over the last two decades, many stormtroopers are still clones, just not Fett clones.

 

Yes, I know!:D I might use a small number of Cad Bane and Greedo clones..

 

Well, in the Outer Rim at least, we mostly see the stormtroopers, maybe that isn`t the case in the Core. the Colonies, the Inner Rim or maybe even the Mid Rim. I don`t know.

 

Haha. In norwegian the word marine actually means navy, so that always confuses me a bit...

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Ah... in the states we playfully say that "marine" stands for, "My a$$ rides in navy equipment".  American Marines are technically a part of our Navy, but we don't really use them like Britain used them in the 1600s, where they were used for security and ship-to-ship boarding actions and battling pirates.

 

In Star Wars, I'm 100% positive that the Empire will use Stormtroopers in boarding actions with other ships.  But the Empire will also use them for land fighting.  You'll find them everywhere that the Empire has a garrison or base.

Edited by CrunchyDemon

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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_trooper

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Planetary_Security_Forces

 

Those three links look like a good start.

 

As for Nar Shaddaa, anything from swoop gangs to elite mercenary units would provide protection and order *somewhere* on the planet.  I would expect it would mainly depend on what Hutt Clan is in charge of the area and if they think it is a valuable area or not.

 

Thank you. Would you say it is likely that they are more common or usual to run into than stormtroopers? It doesn`t look like it in the movies. Would you use Naval Troopers, mechanically?

As for local, non-imperial law, do you think there would just be like one single marshal(and maybe a deputy) for each town on Tatooine, the planet only has like 200 000 inhabitants.

 

I would say it is more up to your interpretation of the universe and what you want the "face of the Empire" to be for your group.  My first thinking is that Imperial Army fight the battles, the wars, the prolonged conflicts where as the Storm Troopers are multi-role being both shock troops and peace keepers but peace keepers in the sense that they seem to be the ones that throw the Empire's weight around on Outer Rim worlds and remind fringers who is in charge.

 

As for Tatooine, I think that makes sense.  It maintains the real Wild West feel of the planet.  To that end, there are probably things like Regulators and a militia in Anchorhead and Mos Eisley but besides that, marshals make sense to me. 

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Imperial Army Troopers. If you get the Advesary decks they have a card for the basic army troopers stats. The cards are a good buy. 6 bucks a pop, three of them...20 bucks maybe with tax for the three packs and you have a good amount of stats you can pull up on the fly :)

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Naval troopers are listed, but not Army. Can someone explain?

 

It looks like Army Toopers made it into Age of Rebellion, but aren't in Edge of the Empire. They are pretty close to Imperial Navy Troopers. In AoR they carry Blaster Rifles instead of Blaster Pistols, have frag grenades, and skills are Discipline, Ranged (heavy), and Ranged (light).

 

FFG has taken the WEG stance of there being an Imperial Army, Imperial Navy, and a seperate Stormtrooper Corps. In your universe you could always go with the other oft-debated fan stance that there is no Imperial Army if you prefer. Stormtroopers are the only ground troops and Navy Troopers are ship/station security types.

 

Local non-Imperial troops would vary vastly and thus be whatever you wish them to be. Disciplined paramilitary law enforcement, hired thugs, etc. Some may even rival the Imperials in quality, such as the Corellian Defense Force?

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I would say no real police presence on Hutt controlled planets just mercenary/private armies and gangs. Tattooine is under Imperial control but really is so lawless and corrupt that the Imps there have been bought off by the Hutts. Marshals make better sense there, but will be more towards preventing farmers from stealing from or fighting other farmers and being underpaid and under equipped wont go after organized crime. Think, Gotham or 3:10 to or almost any of Clint Eastwood's spaghetti westerns. The mob has all people of authority in their um...folds for lack of a better word since they don't have pockets.

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In the Adversaries chapter in the Core Rulebook, they say that Stormtroopers are not part of the army, but a sperate corps of dedicated shock troops.

It says that they perform missions that regular  army troops would be unable or unwilling to accomplish.

 

Ok, so who are these Army Troops and how do they look? Shouldn`t there be more of them around than Stormtroopers who seem to be all over the place?

Naval troopers are listed, but not Army. Can someone explain?

I am sure my players wouldn`t think twice about only meeting stormtroopers when it comes to imperial adversaries, but I would like to know.

 

On a similar note, how does local law and police officers look? I know this may vary a lot(!) from world to world, but are there any good, known examples?

I am going to use Tatooine and would like to know how police might look there.

On a place like Nar Shaddaa, another place I will use, I guess all forms of security is privatized.

Ah, this one comes up many times. I'll give you my take on it.

Firstly, keep in mind that the Empire is an empire, not a single state. It is possible, and even common, for a subject state (in this case a planet) to still have its own army even when part of an empire. A really interesting read would be a good history of the British empire. Of course you don't want a subject state's own army being too powerful because then you run the risk of them kicking you out, but it's still useful to have. It provides you a source of military power (as they will fight for you) and it is also, where possible, much more effective to have a populace controlled by their own people (police and army) than by outsiders (your army). Again, look to the British empire for examples. In India, there was the British Indian Army which was local people with a mix of British and Indian officers. Why was it acceptable to the British that India should actually retain an army even though they were a subject state? Several reasons - it expands the reach of the British Empire as trying to govern vast countries with only non-native troops would be impossible, it gave them more troops in wars against their own enemies and - this last is key - it was an army not a navy.

The British could do what they did because they had the naval might. India (or another country) could have an army five times the British, but without a navy to move it around they could not threaten Britain.

So bringing this back to Star Wars, what I would actually expect to see is that many nations have their own traditional armies with a variety of costumes, structures and levels of ability. And the Empire is actually good with this as it provides them numbers for military action. But only the most trusted or subjugated planets have a navy to speak of. Without a strong navy, a planet can be rebellious, defensive, but only mildly threatening to the Empire.

This actually leads very nicely into the nature of Storm Troopers. The Empire does have non-Storm Trooper armies but these have far more limited use. Typically they would be commissioned for long campaigns in less usual circumstances. And the reason for this is the Imperial Navy. If you have orbital dominance, what do you need a large army for? You can bombard any city you wish until it surrenders. Again, look to our own history. In the US-led invasion of Iraq, the Iraqi forces didn't surrender due to american soldiers, but due to the fact that in that brief period, the coalition flew over 20,000 combat sorties running a near continuous rain of bombs on Iraq. I've no idea how much that cost but a few hundred billion sounds a good starting figure to me. Anyway, the point is that when you have that sort of superiority, you don't need large regular armies. What you need is smaller numbers of highly trained specialists. Storm Troopers in effect. Actually, a better example would be the Western bombing of Libya some years ago. The UK alone was spending around £38m per week on bombing any who opposed the Benghazi militias (not sure about the costs for USA and France) and the bombing was supplemented by Special Forces on the ground. The military paradigm shifts when you have air (or orbital) superiority so that conventional armies are no longer as important. The ground forces you do use are primarily highly-trained elites.(1)

That's why the Empire can have an "army" that is nothing but "elites". It sounds counter-intuitive because you have to have something to be elite in comparison to, but in this context it more just means smaller highly trained units. Combine this with the fact that so much of the Imperial planetary forces are mechanized with AT-ATs, AT-STs and similar, you're just not going to see large armies of infantry. Which is why you don't.

Typically in a game, where there is an actual army (hasn't come up, but if it does...) you would see the army of the planet concerned and then on the Imperial side (whether opposing or allies), you would see naval forces, mechanized planetary forces and small cadres of elite storm troopers for target extraction, boarding actions, etc.

I hope all this helps.

(1) I wont go off on a political tangent, but it remains blackly hillarious that the Libyan war is seen in the West as a "popular uprising" given that the rebels were largely one militia from the East of the country and Western forces were basically bombing a path across the country for them and Qatar soldiers were arriving in the country to make up the numbers. Anyway, cynical rant over.

Even when you do engage in ground actions

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For me personally I will use the Army stats in AoR for local armies only. I like the idea that a majority of the ground pounders are stormtroopers visually speaking. Stormtroopers are an iconic vision of Star Wars. So any call for Imperial army will be filled by stormtroopers. But I do have two versions. A standard stormtrooper, much like your standard grunt in the army, and your elite trooper, a mildly tougher version to represent the troopers of units like the 501st. These are still both minion groups.

Standard%20Stormtrooper.png

Standard%20Elite%20Stormtrooper.png

 

Only some slight variance between them. But I have fleshed out their armour more than just soak 2.

Edited by mouthymerc

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I use the Imperial Army largely as a garrison and logistics force. The Imperial Army also operates armor, artillery, and engineering vehicles and equipment in detachments forwarded to Stormtrooper units.

 

In my games, the Stormtrooper Corps is still composed of clones, but not Jango clones. Too many batches of clones from the same material causes quality control issues, so cloning subjects are now annually selected from the best and brightest of the Imperial Army and Imperial Navy.

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In the Adversaries chapter in the Core Rulebook, they say that Stormtroopers are not part of the army, but a sperate corps of dedicated shock troops.

It says that they perform missions that regular  army troops would be unable or unwilling to accomplish.

 

Ok, so who are these Army Troops and how do they look? Shouldn`t there be more of them around than Stormtroopers who seem to be all over the place?

Naval troopers are listed, but not Army. Can someone explain?

I am sure my players wouldn`t think twice about only meeting stormtroopers when it comes to imperial adversaries, but I would like to know.

 

On a similar note, how does local law and police officers look? I know this may vary a lot(!) from world to world, but are there any good, known examples?

I am going to use Tatooine and would like to know how police might look there.

On a place like Nar Shaddaa, another place I will use, I guess all forms of security is privatized.

That's why the Empire can have an "army" that is nothing but "elites". It sounds counter-intuitive because you have to have something to be elite in comparison to, but in this context it more just means smaller highly trained units. Combine this with the fact that so much of the Imperial planetary forces are mechanized with AT-ATs, AT-STs and similar, you're just not going to see large armies of infantry. Which is why you don't.

Typically in a game, where there is an actual army (hasn't come up, but if it does...) you would see the army of the planet concerned and then on the Imperial side (whether opposing or allies), you would see naval forces, mechanized planetary forces and small cadres of elite storm troopers for target extraction, boarding actions, etc.

 

I used to argue along the lines of the WEG model (Stormtrooper Corps, Navy, AND Army), but have since come full circle to this above model - only an Imperial Navy that includes the Stormtrooper Corps. The movies seem to support it. The new Disney canon seems to support it, but I truly have no idea if the Imperial Army showed up in The Clone Wars cartoons?

 

I organized my thoughts on the Imperial Military using the uniforms we actually see in the movies into a PDF for myself:

 

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxzdHVybnNzdHVmZnxneDoyMWZmNWIwYTk3NDEwZTYx

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Sturn - I really like that. I'm using cream colour for the ISB in my campaign as a result of your document - it's been a very helpful guide to make things consitent and add depth to my game.

There weren't any instances of an "Imperial Army" in TCW series, though we saw some things that overlapped. For example the Senate Guards were fully armoured and seemed highly trained, but they weren't soldiers. We also saw the clone troopers fighting alongside regional militias and armies such as Twi'Lek forces on Ryloth. We never saw a large scale army non-local that wasn't the clone soldiers however. And I think that makes sense as one of the key points is that the Republic had no army until the Jedi "magically" produced one. Which later put them as a target for anti-war sentiment later on, naturally.

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We are not the Stormtrooper Corps. You see Stormtroopers blitzing enemy fortifications or establishing beachheads, but often at a heavy loss to their own lines. they have their role, and it is... consistent. The Imperial Army, and only the Imperial Army, is equipped to seize and defend a planet.

 

 

That's from the Imperial Handbook. There are 30+ pages on the history and organisation of the Imperial Army and goes into exhaustive detail. Of course it's 'Legends' now, but then so is much of this game line :)  Great resource regardless.

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We are not the Stormtrooper Corps. You see Stormtroopers blitzing enemy fortifications or establishing beachheads, but often at a heavy loss to their own lines. they have their role, and it is... consistent. The Imperial Army, and only the Imperial Army, is equipped to seize and defend a planet.

 

 

That's from the Imperial Handbook. There are 30+ pages on the history and organisation of the Imperial Army and goes into exhaustive detail. Of course it's 'Legends' now, but then so is much of this game line :)  Great resource regardless.

 

 

I saw that book on Amazon recently, is there a standard version that doesn't cost so much, I just want the book and not the extra stuff?

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Since the Empire is loosely based on Nazi Germany, I've always considered stormtroopers to be analogous to SS troops, while the standard Imperial troops would be like the regular German army or navy.  The regular military was part of the German state, while SS units were a paramilitary wing of the Nazi party.  So, you can think of stormtroopers as being the shock troops of Palpatine's Sith "party", working directly for the Emperor, while the Imperial army or naval trooper works for the Imperial government (not necessarily the same thing).

 

Interestingly enough, "stormtroopers" in real life were German assault troops from WWI who specialized in trench warfare.  They really had nothing to do with Nazis at all :)

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I am using local police force that is backed by stormtroopers or some local governor support, obviously empire instated. So uniform wise, some local feel would do, added gear from the empire... So local militia that used to have stun batons and heavy clothing, now also have stormtrooper rifles and empire helmets, and so forth.

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We are not the Stormtrooper Corps. You see Stormtroopers blitzing enemy fortifications or establishing beachheads, but often at a heavy loss to their own lines. they have their role, and it is... consistent. The Imperial Army, and only the Imperial Army, is equipped to seize and defend a planet.

 

 

That's from the Imperial Handbook. There are 30+ pages on the history and organisation of the Imperial Army and goes into exhaustive detail. Of course it's 'Legends' now, but then so is much of this game line :)  Great resource regardless.

 

 

I saw that book on Amazon recently, is there a standard version that doesn't cost so much, I just want the book and not the extra stuff?

 

 

If they follow form from the previous books then yes, normally about 1 year after the silly collector box. It's an awesome book, like all of the ones in this line.

 

(Yes, I am a silly collector btw). 

 

EDIT - just checked on Amazon UK, it's due on Aug 7th, £12.99.

Edited by MrDodger

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Since the Empire is loosely based on Nazi Germany, I've always considered stormtroopers to be analogous to SS troops, while the standard Imperial troops would be like the regular German army or navy.  The regular military was part of the German state, while SS units were a paramilitary wing of the Nazi party.  So, you can think of stormtroopers as being the shock troops of Palpatine's Sith "party", working directly for the Emperor, while the Imperial army or naval trooper works for the Imperial government (not necessarily the same thing).

 

Interestingly enough, "stormtroopers" in real life were German assault troops from WWI who specialized in trench warfare.  They really had nothing to do with Nazis at all :)

 

That's exactly the way I view it - the Stormtrooper Corps provides a second military force, completely independent of the regular Army hierarchy and logisitical network, that can be used for more difficult operations on the one hand, and deployed against an kind of insurrection among the regular troops on the other. The stormtroopers have better training and better equipment, are fanatically loyal to the New Order and are kept separate from the regulars even when off duty, to avoid any possible conflict of loyalty.

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I never really liked the idea of Stormtroopers as an independent Corp (like the Marines, or SS troops), mostly because we never see anyone else, and we see Stormtroopers often acting in normal Army or MP roles.  (And before you mention hoth - we have no reason to assume those guys wouldn't have put on snowtrooper armor if they were leaving their vehicles, and according to cutaways there were 40 snowtroopers being carried in the back.  THat'd be like have 2 squads of marines riding in the back of an Army APC!) 

 

We also know that the stormtroopers are the direct descendants of the Grand Army of the Republic, which logically would have become the Imperial Army.

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I never really liked the idea of Stormtroopers as an independent Corp (like the Marines, or SS troops), mostly because we never see anyone else,

 

I was a loyal arguer for the Imperial Army existing for decades. I have several pro-Army arguments up my sleeve. But, the counter reasons I debated against for years finally won me over. We never see the WEG olive drab wearing Imperial Army on the screen, ever, not even for a glimpse, because the Imperial Army is on the screen constantly, in full view, wearing white. That doesn't mean they aren't a cut above local defense forces. They are still obviously elite in training and equipment. The Empire only recruits (or grows, depending on your beliefs) the best for their shock infantry.  Yes, they are only shock infantry. Front line charges. The Empire doesn't have much need for occupiers and long-term siegers, as already noted above.

Edited by Sturn

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I never really liked the idea of Stormtroopers as an independent Corp (like the Marines, or SS troops), mostly because we never see anyone else, and we see Stormtroopers often acting in normal Army or MP roles.

That is a notable Observation.

How I have looked at it is that they are 2 Separate Groups, but the White Laminate Armor is issued to both. Which is done on Purpose to present a Uniform appearance.  It also adds the question "Is that a Regular Army Trooper or a Stormtrooper?". 

 

Which leaves the Differences to be addressed in other ways more than the White Armor they are wearing.

 

Storm Troopers

  1. Better Training -
    • Early on only Fett Clones and over time the Best of the Imperial Army recruited. Meaning you had to be selected to be a Stormtrooper by the time of OT. 
  2. Equipment inside the helmet.
    • Better Comlink - More Encrypted Channels both Long and Short Range
    • Optical Enhancement / Night vision
  3. Armor
    • Looks the same, but Stormtroopers have better quality. 
    • Possible Customization to denote unit (Markings like the Clones did)
  4. E-11 is standard issue to all Forces, but Stormtroopers get other variations or equipment.
  5. Command Tactics - Stormtrooper Command would use different tactics than Imperial Army.
    • Tactics centered around Smaller Highly Trained Units than Large Military Formations. 

 

It is obvious that my outlook points towards explaining why you have Troopers everywhere. 

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