Destroyed Ship?

[daloonieshaman 17]

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)

http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edge

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the board

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

 

 

[Beatty 1,730]

If we go by X-Wing and most of the other movement rules in Armada it is the final position that matters.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Beatty

[Deathseed 1,738]

It's a fair question. The rules state that if any portion of a ship or squadrons base is outside of the play area it is destroyed. It isn't specific about timing though. I think it's safe to assume that it's like X-Wing where you are only concerned with your start and end point (as I understand it). If your end point puts you on the field (with no part of the base off), it is a safe move.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Deathseed

[daloonieshaman 17]

Thank You

no offense but Armada is not X-Wing, granted it is a Fantasy Flight Game Star Wars game ... but so is imperial assault.

This instance may work the same with Armada and X-Wing, in the long run, but I have not found a clear statement in the Armada rules.

[konradkurze 275]

If you don't want an answer based off X-wing what exactly do you want? There isn't much else we have to go off until they release an faq.

[Guest Andy1909]

Just a bit of clarification on the initial image. Haven't got my set yet, but from watching the video of the Team Covenant demo game at Gencon. Shouldn't the manouevre stick be on the inside of the turn? 

 

The guy running the game seemed, from memory, to "indicate" that. And it will make a difference as to where the ship ends up.

[1123581321345589144 94]

"A ship can move through ships, squadrons, and obstacles without issue." That seems to indicate that ships don't "move" in the sense that they slide along the movement tool, but rather "teleport" in that they move from one point to another, ignoring stuff in between.

 

I would guess that would make this a legal move.

Edited March 29, 2015 by 1123581321345589144

[keroko 492]

Thank You

no offense but Armada is not X-Wing, granted it is a Fantasy Flight Game Star Wars game ... but so is imperial assault.

This instance may work the same with Armada and X-Wing, in the long run, but I have not found a clear statement in the Armada rules.

 

Closest thing we have to this example is the obstacle rule on page 20, which says "Ships and can over through obstacles without issue, only the final position for the ship or squadron matters."

 

So as long as it's on the board on the final position, you should be fine.

Edited March 29, 2015 by keroko

[Forensicus 883]

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)

http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edge

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the board

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

 

 

1) Your placement of the movement tool is "illegal":

From LtP page 10:

 

"The ship’s starting position and final position must be on the same side of the maneuver tool. In addition, the maneuver tool cannot be placed in such a way that the ship would overlap the tool when placed in its final position. If the ship would overlap it, the tool must be placed on the other side of the ship’s base before the ship is moved."

 

2) From Rules Reference page 5 "Destroyed Ships and Squadrons": 

 

"Additionally, a ship or squadron is destroyed if a portion of its base is outside the play area."

[RatofDeath 7]

Like the previous poster said, just putting the movement tool on the other side of the ship should solve the issue anyways, the movement tool and the ship will stay inside the play area that way.

[Forensicus 883]

Like the previous poster said, just putting the movement tool on the other side of the ship should solve the issue anyways, the movement tool and the ship will stay inside the play area that way.

Actually I think doing it correctly (by placing it on the other side) would very likely put the rear of the ship base outside since it would be displaced a it more downwards and to the right in the images

Anyways like others have voiced I would agree that it is only the starting and ending positions that matter (like in X-Wing). Nowhere in the rules is it said that you move the ship along the ruler. The closest thing to doing this is the overlapping rules and even that situation is handled (and has similar precedence) as in X-Wing

[Forensicus 883]

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)

http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edge

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the board

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

Since premeasuring is allowed then just either don't click on the 3rd joint or click it to the right instead. That would have a twofold effect:

1) Ensure that the ships rear part stays in the play area

and

2) Make the illustrated movement tool placement legal

[Forensicus 883]

 

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)

http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edge

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the board

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

Since premeasuring is allowed then just either don't click on the 3rd joint or click it to the right instead. That would have a twofold effect:

1) Ensure that the ships rear part stays in the play area

and

2) Make the illustrated movement tool placement legal

 

 

[rowdyoctopus 1,412]

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edgehttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the boardhttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

Since premeasuring is allowed then just either don't click on the 3rd joint or click it to the right instead. That would have a twofold effect:

1) Ensure that the ships rear part stays in the play area

and

2) Make the illustrated movement tool placement legal

Once you put the tool in the notches of your ship base, you are committed to that position. You cannot adjust it further.

[rowdyoctopus 1,412]

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)

http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edge

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the board

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

I don't understand your two pictures after the first one. Why are there two "finished moving" positions?

[rowdyoctopus 1,412]

Also, as others have pointed out, that is not a legal position for the maneuver tool if you are going to hook it that way. Moving speed 1, 2, or 3 with the maneuver tool in that position would cause the ship to overlap the tool. You would have to use the tool on the other side.

[Forensicus 883]

 

 

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edgehttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the boardhttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

Since premeasuring is allowed then just either don't click on the 3rd joint or click it to the right instead. That would have a twofold effect:

1) Ensure that the ships rear part stays in the play area

and

2) Make the illustrated movement tool placement legal

Once you put the tool in the notches of your ship base, you are committed to that position. You cannot adjust it further.

 

 

True, and agree. But you may put down the movement tool and adjust it BEFORE committing to that maneuver and moving the shipmodel 

[rowdyoctopus 1,412]

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edgehttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the boardhttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

Since premeasuring is allowed then just either don't click on the 3rd joint or click it to the right instead. That would have a twofold effect:

1) Ensure that the ships rear part stays in the play area

and

2) Make the illustrated movement tool placement legal

Once you put the tool in the notches of your ship base, you are committed to that position. You cannot adjust it further.

 

True, and agree. But you may put down the movement tool and adjust it BEFORE committing to that maneuver and moving the shipmodel

Correct, it just has to be a little off from your base. Once it engages the base you are set. Also, I wouldn't let my opponent get it microscopically close and try and argue he was following the rule. Make your estimation and go.

[IvoryTower 4]

I agree with the other posts that the movement tool should be on the other side to move the ship along the outside edge. And I also want to point out that if this ship is moving at speed three, there's no way it can do 2 clicks of the tool at all three joints from 0-3. On the CR-90's card it's: - , I  , II   At best you might do a navigate command and get one more click at the first or second joint... sooooo still going off the board.

Edited March 29, 2015 by IvoryTower

[Forensicus 883]

 

 

 

 

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edgehttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the boardhttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

Since premeasuring is allowed then just either don't click on the 3rd joint or click it to the right instead. That would have a twofold effect:

1) Ensure that the ships rear part stays in the play area

and

2) Make the illustrated movement tool placement legal

Once you put the tool in the notches of your ship base, you are committed to that position. You cannot adjust it further.

 

True, and agree. But you may put down the movement tool and adjust it BEFORE committing to that maneuver and moving the shipmodel

Correct, it just has to be a little off from your base. Once it engages the base you are set. Also, I wouldn't let my opponent get it microscopically close and try and argue he was following the rule. Make your estimation and go.

 

 

The exact quote from the Rules Reference page 11 is:

 

"The maneuver tool can be placed on the play area and manipulated freely during the “Determine Course” step. "

[Forensicus 883]

I agree with the other posts that the movement tool should be on the other side to move the ship along the outside edge. And I also want to point out that if this ship is moving at speed three, there's no way it can do 2 clicks of the tool at all three joints from 0-3. On the CR-90's card it's: - , I  , II   At best you might do a navigate command and get one more click at the first or second joint... sooooo still going off the board.

 

Good catch

[rowdyoctopus 1,412]

 

 

 

 

 

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edgehttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the boardhttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

Since premeasuring is allowed then just either don't click on the 3rd joint or click it to the right instead. That would have a twofold effect:

1) Ensure that the ships rear part stays in the play area

and

2) Make the illustrated movement tool placement legal

Once you put the tool in the notches of your ship base, you are committed to that position. You cannot adjust it further.

 

True, and agree. But you may put down the movement tool and adjust it BEFORE committing to that maneuver and moving the shipmodel

Correct, it just has to be a little off from your base. Once it engages the base you are set. Also, I wouldn't let my opponent get it microscopically close and try and argue he was following the rule. Make your estimation and go.

 

 

The exact quote from the Rules Reference page 11 is:

 

"The maneuver tool can be placed on the play area and manipulated freely during the “Determine Course” step. "

 

 

Yes, however there are also these quotes...

 

Page 9 of the Rules Reference book, under Premeasuring:

 

"The maneuver tool can be placed and adjusted freely during the "Determine Course" step of executing a maneuver to assist in determining a course.  A ship is not committed to a course until the guides of the maneuver tool are inserted into the ship's base."

 

Then just above the bullet point you posted on page 11:

 

"After the maneuver tool's guides are inserted into the ship, the joints of the tool cannot be adjusted."

 

 

Finally, the tournament rules say:

 

"After the maneuver tool’s guides are inserted into a ship, the joints of the tool cannot be adjusted. The maneuver tool’s guides are considered to be inserted into the ship when the side of the maneuver tool is parallel to the ship’s base and both base and tool are touching. If a player believes his or her opponent is abusing movement pre-measuring he or she can request that a judge observe the match."

 

If my opponent is taking time to put the tool as close as physically possible without them touching, lining it up, etc, I would consider that abusing the pre-measuring rule.  In a friendly game I would request they stop.  In a tournament I would call the TO/judge over.

[Forensicus 883]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this ship (moving 3), going off the board and out of play (play are is the black mat)http://s152.photobucket.com/user/dalooneishaman/media/P1010103_zpsvj7t1tna.jpg

 

finishes moving and one section of the table edgehttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010104_zpso6ikqzo9.jpg

 

after finished moving and all parts on the boardhttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/dalooneishaman/P1010105_zpssn7dony5.jpg

Since premeasuring is allowed then just either don't click on the 3rd joint or click it to the right instead. That would have a twofold effect:

1) Ensure that the ships rear part stays in the play area

and

2) Make the illustrated movement tool placement legal

Once you put the tool in the notches of your ship base, you are committed to that position. You cannot adjust it further.

 

True, and agree. But you may put down the movement tool and adjust it BEFORE committing to that maneuver and moving the shipmodel

Correct, it just has to be a little off from your base. Once it engages the base you are set. Also, I wouldn't let my opponent get it microscopically close and try and argue he was following the rule. Make your estimation and go.

 

 

The exact quote from the Rules Reference page 11 is:

 

"The maneuver tool can be placed on the play area and manipulated freely during the “Determine Course” step. "

 

 

Yes, however there are also these quotes...

 

Page 9 of the Rules Reference book, under Premeasuring:

 

"The maneuver tool can be placed and adjusted freely during the "Determine Course" step of executing a maneuver to assist in determining a course.  A ship is not committed to a course until the guides of the maneuver tool are inserted into the ship's base."

 

Then just above the bullet point you posted on page 11:

 

"After the maneuver tool's guides are inserted into the ship, the joints of the tool cannot be adjusted."

 

 

Finally, the tournament rules say:

 

"After the maneuver tool’s guides are inserted into a ship, the joints of the tool cannot be adjusted. The maneuver tool’s guides are considered to be inserted into the ship when the side of the maneuver tool is parallel to the ship’s base and both base and tool are touching. If a player believes his or her opponent is abusing movement pre-measuring he or she can request that a judge observe the match."

 

If my opponent is taking time to put the tool as close as physically possible without them touching, lining it up, etc, I would consider that abusing the pre-measuring rule.  In a friendly game I would request they stop.  In a tournament I would call the TO/judge over.

 

 

Listen, we are actually in agreement here. I'm totally with you and thank you for the added quotes. My omissions of the same quotes was not meant to imply that I'd sanction insert of the tool etc. etc

[daloonieshaman 17]

Thank EVERYONE for the input.

Let me rephrase my question:

for what ever reason the maneuver ruler trails off the board and the path of the ship neanders from point "A" to point "B" the ship would fly off the board would it be destroyed. Or do you "teleport" from starting position to final position.

 

What I was trying to illustrate is:

Open a discussion about this and hopefully someone find a written rule that I missed.

 

It was not about the exact number of clicks a particular model may make or what side to place the ruler or if you place the ruler your stuck with that side (though that is a good one but tournament only at this point)

 

There are many people that have not read the tournament rules as they are just starting to play the basic set up rules <shown below> (and not even using upgrade cards).

 

 

 

 

 

 The tournament rules:

ADDITIONAL

TOURNAMENT RULES

MEASURING

As written on page 9 of the Rules Reference booklet, “The maneuver

tool can be placed and adjusted freely during the ‘Determine Course’ step

of executing a maneuver to assist in determining a course. A ship is not

committed to a course until the guides of the maneuver tool are inserted

into the ship’s base.” Players should not abuse this pre-measurement rule

to slow the pace of play or interrupt an opponent’s activation.

A player cannot use multiple rulers or maneuver tools to measure

additional range, distance, or movement beyond the length of a single tool

or to triangulate measurements.

If the end of a measured range or distance falls on the border line between

two ranges or distances, count the measurement as the closer range or

distance. If there is a dispute over a measurement, players may request a

judge to rule on the final measurement.

MOVEMENT

Players must follow all movement rules in the Star Wars: Armada Learn to

Play and Rules Reference booklets.

After the maneuver tool’s guides are inserted into a ship, the joints of the

tool cannot be adjusted. The maneuver tool’s guides are considered to be

inserted into the ship when the side of the maneuver tool is parallel to the

ship’s base and both base and tool are touching. If a player believes his or

her opponent is abusing movement pre-measuring he or she can request

that a judge observe the match.

It may be necessary to move a ship when the maneuver tool cannot be

directly placed onto the play area due to the presence of other ships or

squadrons. When this occurs, the ship’s owner should determine course,

then hold the maneuver tool above the activated ship and move it to its

final position. Both players must agree on the ship’s final position and

facing. When moving this way, the player cannot adjust the maneuver tool

once he or she has lifted the ship off of the play surface.

[Belamont 59]

IMO, if the Maneuver template or Ship are off the board they are considered destroyed.