Can I get a refund on my 3 tie phantoms?

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

I ran Whisper for the first time at my weekly store game night last Friday (in fact, as a Rebel player, it was my first time playing imperial) and I found the new decloak rules were very powerful. You sacrifice little in decloaking first, but gain more, IMO.

You give up a very large information advantage under the new rules: you can no longer use the decloak to react to your opponent's maneuvers, and your opponent can reposition in reaction to your decloak.

I think part of the reason for the differing perceptions of the change is that some players were relying on the Phantom's enormous information advantage, and some weren't. If you were already in the habit of planning your decloak along with your maneuver, or your typical opponents were good at predicting your decloak location (or even confining it) and predicting your maneuver, then the change won't make much difference to you.

That doesn't make it a small change, though.

[TieDefender 77]

find it very ironic that people would say learn to play/fly better when facing phantoms now when the phantom is slightly changed its all violins and please give me money back or lower the costs or the sky is falling.....very telling.

 

The phantom was a crutch unit and apparantly some people using it need to learn how to adapt.

Edited March 31, 2015 by TieDefender

[Hobojebus 11,341]

find it very ironic that people would say learn to play/fly better when facing phantoms now when the phantom is slightly changed its all violins and please give me money back or lower the costs or the sky is falling.....very telling.

 

The phantom was a crutch unit and apparantly some people using it need to learn how to adapt.

Using turret ships is no different though you just have to look at the crying over Autothrusters and the need to use the front arc against interceptors.

It's not unique to x-wing some people will always go for that easy mode option be it team fortress or 40K.

Others avoid easy mode options even using sub optimal builds just to prove they are good enough to win even at a disadvantage.

[voidreturn 816]

Tried using Whisper and Echo as paper weights but the shape of the ship and weight aren't worth the money.  My neighbor gave me a rock for free.

 

Thanks FFG for ruining the imperial meta because of the whiny rebel players that spend more time on here complaining than learning how to beat Whisper and Echo, which everyone I know can.

 

Below is my exact feelings about this (funny, but true):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv2zsh91xFk

 

I'll give you $1 for each of them...

[Parravon 5,217]

I see it as a case of 'swings and roundabouts'. Some things may help and some may hinder a little. In the end we will all just have to work out new strategies around the way it's now used. I'm quite keen to see how the change is going to play out. One of my regular opponents loves his Phantoms, so our next game is likely to be very interesting.

[Sephlar 260]

I just think there is give and take with this rule for phantom pilots as well as those who face them. Each side gets helped and hurt.

Since wave 4's release, if you are up against a phantom, you have three places to put a lower PS ship (in front of and on each side of a phantom) and by blocking those three decloak zones, the phantom is left with no choice but to stay cloaked that turn and can not attack.

Now that has been taken away. Whether you regularly fly phantoms OR against them, you can look at this new rule as a glass that is half empty or a glass that is half full. BUT to say that it is 100% a nerf is to completely ignore the advantages that went along with the disadvantages handed to both sides of the phantom.

[TheJoat 40]

Tried using Whisper and Echo as paper weights but the shape of the ship and weight aren't worth the money.  My neighbor gave me a rock for free.

 

Thanks FFG for ruining the imperial meta because of the whiny rebel players that spend more time on here complaining than learning how to beat Whisper and Echo, which everyone I know can.

 

Below is my exact feelings about this (funny, but true):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv2zsh91xFk

Yes, I will refund 50% of MSRP if you send me your Phantoms and all of the cards that came with them.  No questions asked.

[danicusrex 247]

I play Imperials and I'm having MORE fun with my Phantom now that the rules have changed. I have to think to win, rather than just take advantage of a ridiculously overpowered ship. The phantom is still nasty, it just requires way more skill to use now.

[BittersweetCocoa 120]

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

He had cheese actually, it turned into whine.

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

He had cheese actually, it turned into whine.

 

Maybe more like vinegar, to hear some of the things people are saying.

[Klutz 1,590]

Now I'm hungry.

[Rattazustra 5]

Most people don't look at the math, but if you do you may notice that the Phantom is a competitive ship based solely on it's main stats!

 

It costs 25 points and compared to other ships it is worth exactly these 25 points! Each and every ability it gets on top of that is actually bonus. Even if the Phantom could not cloak at all, it would be a competitive unit. Twice the bang as a TIE Fighter, one less defence for one more hitpoint, of which two are the superior shield hitpoints. It is still able to flank like few other ships can and when it does, it does so with superior firepower.

 

Just compare it to an X-Wing Rookie Pilot. The Rookie Pilot has one less attack and one more hull. That's the main difference. Sigma Squadron gets one more pilot skill. On top of that it has two more actions, which are all pretty dang useful. Especially of you consider that the cloaking device is not only a defence booster. It is also a super-barrel-roll and a boost on top of which you can do another regular barrel-roll.

 

The Phantom is balanced, stat-wise. All they did was balance it's special ability from "totally awesome" to "still pretty awesome".

 

It's just not the one-on-one game-winner it used to be any more. Which is fine, because such a thing should never exist on comparable point costs.

[Parravon 5,217]

^^ Good analysis.

[ishikabe 60]

It's all about the stats on the cards and your personal skill at the game. If you need abilities to win, I feel for ya son.

[Shadowmax 211]

Imo, veterans of the Phantom will have already seen how they can use the so called Nerf to their advantage. Also I believe that we'll see the appearance of more of the low ps Phantoms with Stigiums, intel agents, etc.

 

FFG developers obviously put alot of thought into the new rule, going by public opinion, make it fair without squashing the hopes of Adolf and the chaps...

 

Angry Phantom players....keep your chins up, stop the wobbling lower lip, and get to practicing!!

[FTS Gecko 24,137]

Whisper - ACD, VI, FCS, Rebel Captive

2 x Sigma - Stygium, Tactian

 

I'm still going to be flying these bad boys, rule change or no.

Edited April 4, 2015 by FTS Gecko

[zathras23 936]

Haven't been able to play X-Wing since the new FAQ came out (recuperating from foot surgery) but I am looking forward to running my 3 TIE/Phantom list when I can play again and see how it runs with the new de-cloaking rules.

The list is:

Whisper w/VI & ACD

2 x Shadow Squadron w/ACD

Win, lose or draw I have quite a bit of fun flying this list.

And to the person who started this thread? I have one thing to say regarding the new de-cloaking rules. Quoting Clint Eastwood's character from the film Heartbreak Ridge, when it comes to rule changes in X-Wing, you need to "adapt, improvise and overcome".

Edited April 4, 2015 by zathras23

[Binderchk 5]

 

 

Thanks FFG for ruining the imperial meta because of the whiny rebel players that spend more time on here complaining than learning how to beat Whisper and Echo, which everyone I know can.

So now we've got to listen to whiny Empire players spending lots of time on here complaining about how their game changing ship got nerfed, instead of learning how to use the new mechanic to their benefit.

 

Cheers

Baaa

Please don't lump all imperial-minded players in here. Some of us were just as frustrated by the phantom shrinking of our own competitive lists and didn't fly it.

Personally. I find his lack of faith disturbing...

 

Actually if you watch the video, he does stop complaining and decides to rebuild his team to be able to handle the change. So his faith is coming back he just has to rebuild it. The video was awesome. Such passion for x wings.

[Far Wanderer 157]

Just watched a game at lunch where someone ran the new phantom rules. The Phantom is much bettter now that it decloaks before movement. This was a HUGE buff to the Phantom. The amount of blocking that was pulled off was ridiculous. Move in first before other players can and hav ethem bump you so they get no actions, then fly away and you are still able to get everything like normal. The Phantom is MUCH better now.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Far Wanderer

[ishikabe 60]

Just watched a game at lunch where someone ran the new phantom rules. The Phantom is much bettter now that it decloaks before movement. This was a HUGE buff to the Phantom. The amount of blocking that was pulled off was ridiculous. Move in first before other players can and hav ethem bump you so they get no actions, then fly away and you are still able to get everything like normal. The Phantom is MUCH better now.

 

Yeah Whisper while cloaked at Range 3 gets 7 defense die.

[Klutz 1,590]

Just watched a game at lunch where someone ran the new phantom rules. The Phantom is much bettter now that it decloaks before movement. This was a HUGE buff to the Phantom. The amount of blocking that was pulled off was ridiculous. Move in first before other players can and hav ethem bump you so they get no actions, then fly away and you are still able to get everything like normal. The Phantom is MUCH better now.

 

Yeah Whisper while cloaked at Range 3 gets 7 defense die.

 

??

 

Whisper, cloaked, at range 3 gets 5 defence dice.

Add in an obstacle, and that goes up to 6 dice.

Add in Stealth Devide and now you're rolling 7 dice.

 

But I've never seen Whisper with a Stealth Device.

[ishikabe 60]

 

Just watched a game at lunch where someone ran the new phantom rules. The Phantom is much bettter now that it decloaks before movement. This was a HUGE buff to the Phantom. The amount of blocking that was pulled off was ridiculous. Move in first before other players can and hav ethem bump you so they get no actions, then fly away and you are still able to get everything like normal. The Phantom is MUCH better now.

 

Yeah Whisper while cloaked at Range 3 gets 7 defense die.

 

??

 

Whisper, cloaked, at range 3 gets 5 defence dice.

Add in an obstacle, and that goes up to 6 dice.

Add in Stealth Devide and now you're rolling 7 dice.

 

But I've never seen Whisper with a Stealth Device.

 

 

While Cloaked, Whisper gains 2.

 

Base stats of 4 + Max Range 1 + Cloak 2 = 7.

 

Stealth device? Whisper has the Cloak ability on the action bar.

Edited April 8, 2015 by ishikabe

[Tokra 2,147]

 

 

While Cloaked, Whisper gains 2.

 

Base stats of 4 + Max Range 1 + Cloak 2 = 7.

 

Stealth device? Whisper has the Cloak ability on the action bar.

 

 

Base stat of 4? What kind of Tie Phantom are you flying?

 

 

 

Edit:

And Stealth device is something different than cloak abiity.

The Cloak ability allows the Tie Phantom to use the action cloak.

The Stealth device is a modification that increase the agility by 1 (untill he is hit by an attack).

Edited April 8, 2015 by Tokra

[Klutz 1,590]

While Cloaked, Whisper gains 2.

 

Base stats of 4 + Max Range 1 + Cloak 2 = 7.

 

Stealth device? Whisper has the Cloak ability on the action bar.

 

Much studying you need,

Before preaching on the forums you should,

Me thinks.

[ishikabe 60]

2 base not 4
 

oh no, burn me at the stake