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dantop83

Playmat rules need overturning

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Here's my issue: the whole thing about players having an unfair advantage is easily fixed in one motion -- turning the playmat over.

 

In my last store championship, my first game was on one of those "space station" playmats. Neither I nor my opponent had ever played on one before and we both found it too busy. We agreed to flip the mat over to a plain white surface.

 

The same approach could easily be taken for most other playmats and completely remove any unfair advantages from the images. It solves FFG's problem and doesn't require purchases of FFG accessory items.

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This new rule could really stymie the growth of organized play. For T.O. old timers, you would probably just ignore the rules and keep doing what you've been doing. There's no playmat police–at least not yet.

 

But for the new store owner or someone thinking about T.O'ing an event, the moment they read that rule, it's going to be an immediate turnoff.

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Before I jump in too hard I want to point out that FFG has listened to united voices and some common sense (like the dials ruling) in the past so my hope is that even the casual player who this doesn't affect can still chip in and help overturn a rule that could sour this game's growing player base.

 

I want to point out that the comments here are fairly divided between people feeling spit on and people not caring, because they fly casual. Even the most casual player has to realize this is a detrimental rule that could make the game and community lose steam. Players, TOs, stores, none of them are supporting this decision and every local store in my area has already said the rule will not be enforced there. BUT for anyone who wants to go to Regional's and above this becomes a very strange and clearly money driven hindrance.The fear of pre-measuring being the reason for this ruling is lunacy, because you can still pre-measure on their official surfaces (As supposedly Paul Heaver stated he did at World's last year, or so I've read in multiple places) or even the barren tabletop you will now be playing on potentially.

 

Ok so some issues I have in general here. I have read the many different takes on this and here's a few key points:

 

1. FFG could and most likely will NOT provide mats any longer at World's and Gencon moving forward AND the mats they provided were NOT the official FFG mats they are now selling.

 

2. The Armada rulebook states you can use any surface such as felt, so where is the "This game needs to look awesome in pictures argument" when Armada is being played on cardboard or felt and XWings are flying around on white or brown tabletops surrounded by duct tape?

 

3. FFG's Death Star mat is NOT tournament legal. SO only 1 of the 2 mats they released is actually tournament legal on top of all this news,

 

Once again I already bought their official Death Star mat. Turns out I bought their illegal for tournament play option...I wish I wasn't so investing in this game or FFG's other products so I could better protest this, but wait the most obvious proof that this is lunacy and needs to be over-turned...

 

4. Armada has pre-measuring and yet also states you need to use FFG official playmats for fairness.......(2 starfields makes a legal play surface as FFG points out.)

 

Let that settle in and explain how this isn't a blatant cashgrab, with an insulting cover excuse of "fairness". This isn't fair to the loyal player community, stores, or the incoming players who have made this game and future games like Armada a success. Maybe fairness is the wrong word...did I mention how little the stores make on these over-priced playmats?

 

Even if FAIR is the wrong word to describe what this is, there are no words to describe the feeling of being kicked, dragged through the mud, and spit on, while being kicked some more. Which is what FFG has done with their "Starfield Playmats" being the only legal playmats. The ONE playmat that wasn't selling out..

 

Now can we please just use a common sense and unified voice to ensure the game we all love isn't negatively affected by this ruling that may or may not affect you, but invariably will affect someone.

1. Ffg is the TO of world's and gencon so we will be using those mats, just like last year.

2. That's Armada so I don't know enough about.

3. Yes it is, originally it wasn't but they changed it. The death star is tourney legal.

4. Armada again so I don't know enough.

This ruling doesn't even really affect players since we don't provide the mats for the tournaments. Stores are going to enforce this, no one will be forced to buy these mats, things will continue on like they have been, and the sky isn't falling.

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I've already canceled my Armada pre-order and will be making no further purchases of ANY FFG products until this is reversed. And I own at least one cooy of EVERY product released for X-Wing, Imperial Assault and the entire SW RPG line.

That's how pissed I am about this cash grab.

Jim

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I've already canceled my Armada pre-order and will be making no further purchases of ANY FFG products until this is reversed. And I own at least one cooy of EVERY product released for X-Wing, Imperial Assault and the entire SW RPG line.

That's how pissed I am about this cash grab.

Jim

 

O NOE TEH SKY IS FALLIN!!!!!!1!!!!!one

 

It was certainly not a good decision, but one of the principal reasons it wasn't a good decision is that it's unenforceable, except with the participation of the people with the largest incentive not to enforce it. So the impact of the ruling on your play is likely to be very small--and any impact is going to fall on stores and TOs, not on players.

 

An additional issue is that your personal boycott is likely to go unnoticed. An e-mail from a good customer that's mad is a different story, and the more of those people they hear from--not angry ex-customers, mind you, but angry current customers--the more likely OP will be to pull the rule back.

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I've already emailed Alex Davy and Organized Play. Thank you very much.

And it certainly affects me since I'm TO for a Regional in June who is now suddenly expected to shell out $1300 in playmats or have players play on are wood that is taped off.

Jim

Edited by Emrico

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Everyone's talking as though you have to play on a playmet - am I missing something?  My FLGS just has wooden boards coverd with plain green felt, by my understanding this ruling has no effect on them.

It's certainly not required, but it looks so much better. We have well manufactured models with surprisingly good factory paint schemes, and playing with them on a star field makes the game that more aesthetically pleasing.

Many players bought mats from a variety of companies for this reason.

All you need is a 3x3 area marked off on a chunk of plywood, and the game is no different, but it's just not the same aesthetically.

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Everyone's talking as though you have to play on a playmet - am I missing something?  My FLGS just has wooden boards coverd with plain green felt, by my understanding this ruling has no effect on them.

It's certainly not required, but it looks so much better. We have well manufactured models with surprisingly good factory paint schemes, and playing with them on a star field makes the game that more aesthetically pleasing.

Many players bought mats from a variety of companies for this reason.

All you need is a 3x3 area marked off on a chunk of plywood, and the game is no different, but it's just not the same aesthetically.

 

Yeah, I get that, just wondered if I'd misunderstood something.

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4. Armada again so I don't know enough.

This ruling doesn't even really affect players since we don't provide the mats for the tournaments. Stores are going to enforce this, no one will be forced to buy these mats, things will continue on like they have been, and the sky isn't falling.

 

 

Even without knowing Armada, you can understand the logic of the point. If XWing let you pre-measure every move then how are the playmats unfair? Armada lets you pre-measure.

 

My point isn't the sky is falling, but rather the sky COULD start falling as evident by the guy who cancelled his Armada order, or the multiple other people upset about this OR acknowledging that they will be ignoring the rule...

 

I think it's unfair that someone can go and memorize the two legal mats and use that to their advantage knowing they will be playing on them as opposed to the random seating at events. I have sent my e-mail and said my piece.

 

FFG has so much momentum right now, but their OP department is basically brand new and they need to wake up before they destroy the fledgling empire they created with this upsetting decision.

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Everyone's talking as though you have to play on a playmet - am I missing something?  My FLGS just has wooden boards coverd with plain green felt, by my understanding this ruling has no effect on them.

Players *like* being able to play on rubberized star maps. It adds flavor. Allowing TOs to use mats from other players also eases the burden on venues to keep that stuff on hand.

For a game who's appeal is partially based on how much more relaxed they've been compared to GW, this is a terrible reversal.

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FFG's wording about "advantage...familiarity with a particular map...." seems to imply that they think that players may be considering the graphics on some third party mats as actual Obstacles instead of just 'background' graphics.

Or say for example, Gale force Nine's star field map. Lot of people use it I'm sure. My whole store does. We're so familiar with it, that I can tell for sure if a ship is in target lock range or if it's range 1-3 based off of the background debris and super novas on the play mat. I can see the reasoning behind it. but I don't think it's enough justification to make these playmats no longer legal. I could tell if it's range 1 or 2 just from spacial reasoning. I don't need a printed image to tell me that.

 

Yes, but judging distance from "spacial reasoning" is part of the game, judging distance using a mat you're familiar with isn't (or isn't supposed to be).

 

My point was, we can already deduce ranges and such because of spacial reasoning. So us using background is kind of a moot point on there end for defending this choice of ruling.

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I've already emailed Alex Davy and Organized Play. Thank you very much.

You're welcome!

And it certainly affects me since I'm TO for a Regional in June who is now suddenly expected to shell out $1300 in playmats or have players play on are wood that is taped off.

Jim

Okay, but as the TO you're the one in position to determine whether your event will follow a rule that's (a) infeasibly expensive to obey, and (b) impractical for the controlling authority to enforce. That seems like an easy decision, to me.

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FFG's wording about "advantage...familiarity with a particular map...." seems to imply that they think that players may be considering the graphics on some third party mats as actual Obstacles instead of just 'background' graphics.

Or say for example, Gale force Nine's star field map. Lot of people use it I'm sure. My whole store does. We're so familiar with it, that I can tell for sure if a ship is in target lock range or if it's range 1-3 based off of the background debris and super novas on the play mat. I can see the reasoning behind it. but I don't think it's enough justification to make these playmats no longer legal. I could tell if it's range 1 or 2 just from spacial reasoning. I don't need a printed image to tell me that.

 

Yes, but judging distance from "spacial reasoning" is part of the game, judging distance using a mat you're familiar with isn't (or isn't supposed to be).

My point was, we can already deduce ranges and such because of spacial reasoning. So us using background is kind of a moot point on there end for defending this choice of ruling.

I think that only makes sense if you believe everyone already has a perfect capacity to judge distances accurately on a plain board. Otherwise it's changing the game. I'm not saying it's something I have an issue with, but I totally understand the point.

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Dumbfounded.

If a TO uses 3rd party playmats at a regional and somebody complains to FFG (which let's be honest is fairly unlikely, right?) and FFG in turn comes down on the store for not having purchased hundreds of dollars in official FFG playmats and doesn't award them a future Regional or GSC as retribution, who is being unreasonable?

They can add this language to the tourney rules but that doesn't mean it's going to be aggressively enforced.

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Gah! darn young uns! Am I the only one who used a black cloth with white paint spatter to make a space battlefield? :D

 

Maybe FFG should come out with special (cheaper) playmats for stores only and include them in the tournament kit.

 

And while you can't copyright space...I dunno, Give Google some time, they'll try it... :)

Edited by Robin Graves

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Dumbfounded.

If a TO uses 3rd party playmats at a regional and somebody complains to FFG (which let's be honest is fairly unlikely, right?) and FFG in turn comes down on the store for not having purchased hundreds of dollars in official FFG playmats and doesn't award them a future Regional or GSC as retribution, who is being unreasonable?

They can add this language to the tourney rules but that doesn't mean it's going to be aggressively enforced.

 

It's been fixed.

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In events where players provide their own playmats, only official FFG X-WingTM Playmats are allowed. This is to guarantee a consistent experience for all players and prevent any advantage players may gain from familiarity with a particular playmat that is not widely available. FFG playmats are widely available for examination and play. If a venue provides playmats for their event, they may use third-party playmats. Players may replace third-party playmats if they provide their own FFG playmat to use.

 

 

Just updated.

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In events where players provide their own playmats, only official FFG X-WingTM Playmats are allowed. This is to guarantee a consistent experience for all players and prevent any advantage players may gain from familiarity with a particular playmat that is not widely available. FFG playmats are widely available for examination and play. If a venue provides playmats for their event, they may use third-party playmats. Players may replace third-party playmats if they provide their own FFG playmat to use.

 

 

Just updated.

 

 

That sounds far more reasonable. Though I still like the old rule of: "If you bring a map, you can't play on it." Though this one just makes it easier for the TO to not even have to worry about it.

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Much more workable rule and far more fair to those of us who have been providing playmats for our events and invested 100s of dollars into mats before the FFG ones came along. Now I'll buy at least 4 of the FFG mats to supplement my existing collection.

Jim

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I've already canceled my Armada pre-order and will be making no further purchases of ANY FFG products until this is reversed. And I own at least one cooy of EVERY product released for X-Wing, Imperial Assault and the entire SW RPG line.

That's how pissed I am about this cash grab.

Jim

Cool.  You wanna sell some stuff?

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You can't expect everyone to go out and buy new mats to replace perfectly good ones they already own, and you can't expect small shops to buy a dozen for hosting events either.

It's unreasonable and won't stick.

Read the post above from DailyRich.

They changed it. We can relax.

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This ruling *only* affects two people.

 

1.   Store TOs who have to buy mats for their events

2.  People who oddly insist on playing with their own mat at a sanctioned event (does this even happen?)

No, because the current playmat rule prevents it. But you can bet people will do it now that FFG has given preferential treatment to it's own playmat. The changes FFG has made have created a problem that didn't exist before.

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