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dantop83

Playmat rules need overturning

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I thought about this too and I think at one point they agreed with you since originaly the star field was going to be the only tourney legal one, however I think they quickly realized that as long as everyone has the same chance at expericne with both maps then niether player has an unfair advantage.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that they made that change because they actually wanted to sell some of those Deathstar mats. As awesome as they look, if you couldn't use them in tournaments then I'm sure most people would opt for the starfield one.  

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I personally agree that Starfield or Deathstar mats could be 'learned' to give mapping advantage. You can't deny that this fan-base is capable of that.

 

I do however support another errata that states that "plain solid black" mats should be allowed. As they offer no advantage and can either be bought or hand-made.

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Hang on chaps.

 

Didn't it say only premier events.

Store tourneys are not premier events if I recall, this only applies to regionals and up, and they'd probably have the mats anyway.

 

So it effects virtually no-one.

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Possible Rule Addendum: Playmats manufactured by approved third-parties (Gale Force 9, etc.) that have no images (plain black) or an image of a simple starfield measuring 3' x 3', will be allowed in official play below the Regional/World level.

 

They could publish a list of approved manufacturers and images, which would solve the problem of the wide distribution of the other mats. Also, limiting the requirement to Regional/Worlds would allow FFG to supply these venues with complimentary FFG mats, to be used as either prize support or for the store's own stock for future events. Or they could even sell them at a reduced price since they are "used".

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Hang on chaps.

 

Didn't it say only premier events.

Store tourneys are not premier events if I recall, this only applies to regionals and up, and they'd probably have the mats anyway.

 

So it effects virtually no-one.

No, the paragraph that mentions FFG playmats does not mention "premiere." It just says that if playmats are used, they must be official FFG ones.

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Possible Rule Addendum: Playmats manufactured by approved third-parties (Gale Force 9, etc.) that have no images (plain black) or an image of a simple starfield measuring 3' x 3', will be allowed in official play below the Regional/World level.

 

They could publish a list of approved manufacturers and images, which would solve the problem of the wide distribution of the other mats. Also, limiting the requirement to Regional/Worlds would allow FFG to supply these venues with complimentary FFG mats, to be used as either prize support or for the store's own stock for future events. Or they could even sell them at a reduced price since they are "used".

 

They are not going to do that.

 

In the end, this is going to be as enforced (at least at the Store Championship level) as much as the rule about third party tokens is. Is anyone really going to call out a store that allows someone to use third party tokens? Or mats when there is no other option? 

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The only other tertiary reason i can see for an 'official mat' is that non official ones are essentially using disney/star wars IP and probably not paying a licence for it (death star/trench run images etc) and this *might* endanger FFGs licence....worth considering?

 

You can't copyright space.

 

 

No you cant, but you can have issues with say a mat with 'star trek' logos on it being used or a borg cube in the background.

 

You'd be amazed what you *can* IP protect if you're bloody minded enough.

 

Years ago I as about to run a series of GW 'warhammer 40,000 - total war' campaign weekends at Warhammer World, electronic arts hit us with a 'cease and desist' notice as they claimed 'total war' was there IP.

 

I did point out that it was actually more likely Heinrich Himmlers but in general was a political concept but our legal team advisd us to rebrand as 'Dark Stars' for the campaign system as while we'd probably win a legal battle it wasnt worth the hassle.

 

:)

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FFG doesn't allow you to play xwing with 3rd party xwing ships, why would they allow you to play on another mat?

Additionally, limiting the number of different mats levels the playing field from memorizing the mat differences. If you don't like it, don't use a mat.

 

Pretty simple. I am not getting a mat, but I have no problem with a gaming company protecting its market.

Because playmats are not a required game component. If FFG had official playmats from day one, this might make sense, but people have spent two years with alternatives and now none of those options can be used.

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yeah,

Underling: Sales of your playmats have failed. Your release was too late, Stores already have plenty of cheap playmats…
FFG: This turn of events is unfortunate. We must accelerate our FAQs. Ban all 3rd party playmats.
Underling: My lord! Is that... legal?
FFG: I will make them illegal.

 

FFG are too late to the party and this ruling is a cash grab pure and simple.
It's QQ times for FFG if their mats arn't selling.
I already have 3 regular and one epic mat that I bought for X-wing.

FFG mats are just as busy as 3rd party mats.
I've played on some pretty wild designs and I've never heard anyone ever mistake a mat detail for a asteroid.
Look at their own 'Tiled' asteroid field  plans.. they didn't think this was an issue when they were planning to sell those designs.

FFG mats don't prevent premeasuring of design features. ( Are people be that pathetic? )
In fact everyones been playing on 3rd party mats since launch... that's just about as even a playing field as you can get.

Panic...

Edited by Panic

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The sky isn't falling on this one, local stores aren't going to have to go out and replace all their mats. This isn't enforceable. Who is honestly going to say anything if at your store they're using gale force 9 maps or grip mats?

That depends. If it's the Gale Force 9 "space station" playmat, I might complain: they're irritatingly slick and I've literally gotten a migraine from staring at one.

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So FFG mats have rounded corners, thus aren't 3x3 ft squares, and thus are illegal for tournament use.

Non FFG mats are explicitly illegal for tournament use.

Conclusion: all playmats are prohibited in tournaments.

I've sent a rules question about this. Possibly more effective in changing things if we flood OP with emails about the contradiction in the rules than just complaining about it on the forums :-)

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So FFG mats have rounded corners, thus aren't 3x3 ft squares, and thus are illegal for tournament use.

Non FFG mats are explicitly illegal for tournament use.

Conclusion: all playmats are prohibited in tournaments.

I've sent a rules question about this. Possibly more effective in changing things if we flood OP with emails about the contradiction in the rules than just complaining about it on the forums :-)

 

 

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The sky isn't falling on this one, local stores aren't going to have to go out and replace all their mats. This isn't enforceable. Who is honestly going to say anything if at your store they're using gale force 9 maps or grip mats?

That depends. If it's the Gale Force 9 "space station" playmat, I might complain: they're irritatingly slick and I've literally gotten a migraine from staring at one.

 

 

I have a friend who calls that mat his "home field advantage." It's not because he has memorized the spacing between the lines and features; he hasn't. It's because he claims to have stared at the mat for so long that he is now immune to the migraine effect.

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*Sigh*

So has anyone emailed FFG about their concerns about the mat errata? It is the only loical thing to do and much better than freaking out and making everyone else angry too..

 

Good question! Let's look further up the page and see:

I've sent a rules question about this. Possibly more effective in changing things if we flood OP with emails about the contradiction in the rules than just complaining about it on the forums :-)

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*Sigh*So has anyone emailed FFG about their concerns about the mat errata? It is the only loical thing to do and much better than freaking out and making everyone else angry too..

 Good question! Let's look further up the page and see:

I've sent a rules question about this. Possibly more effective in changing things if we flood OP with emails about the contradiction in the rules than just complaining about it on the forums :-)

Excellent. This is a way more effective approach IMO.

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I really don't know what all the fuss is about.

Just go with Veldrin's suggestion from the other thread.

Don't use playmats at all - just use 3ft by 3ft mood enhancing image tabletop overlays which can be used as a handy proxy for determining the dimensions of the play area instead.

Problem solved.

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Shouldn't be an issue. For competitive tournaments the TO is responsible for setting up the tables with a 3x3 play area. You can't use your own playmat anyway.

I would say that the TO or store owner is within their right to set up that 3x3 play area with a 3rd party playmat if they see fit.

 

Except that the official tournament rules explicitly state that the TO is NOT within their right to use a 3rd party mat.  If they do so they are unequivocally breaking the rules.  If someone were to complain, the complainer would be in the right.

 

So this is not a matter of players buying official mats, but requiring each store to buy enough mats to run a full tournament.

 

It says you can't it does not say the TO cannot borrow player maps which is what most stores do

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Before I jump in too hard I want to point out that FFG has listened to united voices and some common sense (like the dials ruling) in the past so my hope is that even the casual player who this doesn't affect can still chip in and help overturn a rule that could sour this game's growing player base.

 

I want to point out that the comments here are fairly divided between people feeling spit on and people not caring, because they fly casual. Even the most casual player has to realize this is a detrimental rule that could make the game and community lose steam. Players, TOs, stores, none of them are supporting this decision and every local store in my area has already said the rule will not be enforced there. BUT for anyone who wants to go to Regional's and above this becomes a very strange and clearly money driven hindrance.The fear of pre-measuring being the reason for this ruling is lunacy, because you can still pre-measure on their official surfaces (As supposedly Paul Heaver stated he did at World's last year, or so I've read in multiple places) or even the barren tabletop you will now be playing on potentially.

 

Ok so some issues I have in general here. I have read the many different takes on this and here's a few key points:

 

1. FFG could and most likely will NOT provide mats any longer at World's and Gencon moving forward AND the mats they provided were NOT the official FFG mats they are now selling.

 

2. The Armada rulebook states you can use any surface such as felt, so where is the "This game needs to look awesome in pictures argument" when Armada is being played on cardboard or felt and XWings are flying around on white or brown tabletops surrounded by duct tape?

 

3. FFG's Death Star mat is NOT tournament legal. SO only 1 of the 2 mats they released is actually tournament legal on top of all this news,

 

Once again I already bought their official Death Star mat. Turns out I bought their illegal for tournament play option...I wish I wasn't so investing in this game or FFG's other products so I could better protest this, but wait the most obvious proof that this is lunacy and needs to be over-turned...

 

4. Armada has pre-measuring and yet also states you need to use FFG official playmats for fairness.......(2 starfields makes a legal play surface as FFG points out.)

 

Let that settle in and explain how this isn't a blatant cashgrab, with an insulting cover excuse of "fairness". This isn't fair to the loyal player community, stores, or the incoming players who have made this game and future games like Armada a success. Maybe fairness is the wrong word...did I mention how little the stores make on these over-priced playmats?

 

Even if FAIR is the wrong word to describe what this is, there are no words to describe the feeling of being kicked, dragged through the mud, and spit on, while being kicked some more. Which is what FFG has done with their "Starfield Playmats" being the only legal playmats. The ONE playmat that wasn't selling out..

 

Now can we please just use a common sense and unified voice to ensure the game we all love isn't negatively affected by this ruling that may or may not affect you, but invariably will affect someone.

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*Sigh*

So has anyone emailed FFG about their concerns about the mat errata? It is the only loical thing to do and much better than freaking out and making everyone else angry too..

 Also yes we should flood the email box, BUT they also read the forums and seeing nerd rage back and forth in full bloom sometimes can speak more than e-mails that they might not read in detail or not be written clear enough to really open any eyes.

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FFG's wording about "advantage...familiarity with a particular map...." seems to imply that they think that players may be considering the graphics on some third party mats as actual Obstacles instead of just 'background' graphics.

Or say for example, Gale force Nine's star field map. Lot of people use it I'm sure. My whole store does. We're so familiar with it, that I can tell for sure if a ship is in target lock range or if it's range 1-3 based off of the background debris and super novas on the play mat. I can see the reasoning behind it. but I don't think it's enough justification to make these playmats no longer legal. I could tell if it's range 1 or 2 just from spacial reasoning. I don't need a printed image to tell me that.

 

Yes, but judging distance from "spacial reasoning" is part of the game, judging distance using a mat you're familiar with isn't (or isn't supposed to be).

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Everyone's talking as though you have to play on a playmet - am I missing something?  My FLGS just has wooden boards coverd with plain green felt, by my understanding this ruling has no effect on them.

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