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K3rmit

Some (ruling) questions on Loose Cannon

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Hi,

in our last mission "Loose Cannon" some questions came up. Please correct or confirm the following.


1) At the end of Round 3 the threat cannot increase. If I understand it right, the end of Round 3 is after the status phase of Round 3, so the Imp gets the threat of Round 3.

2) While Mak is inside the AT-ST, he can activate the AT-ST in his activation following the rules for activating a deployment card (or an ally). This includes only one allowed attack action.
3) While Mak is inside the AT-ST, all of his cards can be viewed as "out of play". So he cannot use Ambush, he does not gain 3 extra health from Herioc or other benefits from his cards. And he cannot suffer strain to move the AT-ST and suffer damage instead of strain when, for example, is bleeding. I think all of this is a consequence of the above.
4) If the AT-ST has a condition and is defeated, the conditions does not go to Mak.
5) When a card refers to a Rebell figure, it cannot target the AT-ST. But for example, Wookies Loyalty can be used to give the AT-ST one extra Defense, since it refers to a friendly figure.

6) If the AT-ST is defeated, Maks figure is placed and then the Imp can choose to move and attack with the Royal Guard Champion (RGC). To make it more complicated: Think that the RGC defeat the AT-ST with his first action. Then Mak is placed not far away from the RCG, so the RGC can move to him and attack him, since the RGC activation is interrupted. Then we are back in his activation and can move for the second action.

7) Now it gets a bit tricky...
Ok, think about the situation as above, but the Wookiee is adjacent to the RGC too. So the RGC use Brutality for his first attack, and chooses first so resolve the attack against the AT-ST. If now the AT-ST is defeated and the RGC moves and attacks, such that now adjacent to Mak and no longer adjacent to the Wookiee. Is there a legal target for the second attack from Brutality?
a) Before removing the AT-ST from the map, and so before the interruption, the wookiee can be attacked from the RGC, since his first action must completly resolved before something happens.
b) In the other case, the RGC is no longer adjacent to the Wookiee, so he cannot attack him but now adjacent to Mak he can attack Mak.
c) Although not adjacent to the Wookiee, the Wookiee is the only legal target.
d) There is no legal target.
e) Both, Mak and the Wookiee can be attacked.
I think it must be a), what do you think.

8) By the way, is it allowed to choose Brutality as an action even then there are no two different targets in range? And is it right that you cannot take a move action gaining some movement points, then do brutality, attack one target, then use your movement points to move to a second (different) target and then attack with the second attack from Brutality, since an action has to be fully resolved?

9) And a small timing question: If a Stormtrooper at 1 HP attack the last healthy Rebell and uses "Experimental Weapons (EW)", which will kill him after the attack, but only because of the extra surge the Rebell will be wounded, who wins? I think the Imp win because wounding the rebell is before (or simultaneous) suffering the 1Dam for EW, so in the worset case the Imp decides.


Ok thats it, greetings
K3rmit
 

Edited by K3rmit

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Spoilers hidden.

 

Hi,

in our last mission "Loose Cannon" some questions came up. Please correct or confirm the following.

1) At the end of Round 3 the threat cannot increase. If I understand it right, the end of Round 3 is after the status phase of Round 3, so the Imp gets the threat of Round 3.

 

Correct.

2) While Mak is inside the AT-ST, he can activate the AT-ST in his activation following the rules for activating a deployment card (or an ally). This includes only one allowed attack action.

 

Correct.

 

3) While Mak is inside the AT-ST, all of his cards can be viewed as "out of play". So he cannot use Ambush, he does not gain 3 extra health from Herioc or other benefits from his cards. And he cannot suffer strain to move the AT-ST and suffer damage instead of strain when, for example, is bleeding. I think all of this is a consequence of the above.

 

Correct.

 

4) If the AT-ST has a condition and is defeated, the conditions does not go to Mak.

 

Correct.

 

5) When a card refers to a Rebell figure, it cannot target the AT-ST. But for example, Wookies Loyalty can be used to give the AT-ST one extra Defense, since it refers to a friendly figure.

 

Incorrect. the AT-ST is treated like a Rebel Ally under Mak's control.

6) If the AT-ST is defeated, Maks figure is placed and then the Imp can choose to move and attack with the Royal Guard Champion (RGC). To make it more complicated: Think that the RGC defeat the AT-ST with his first action. Then Mak is placed not far away from the RCG, so the RGC can move to him and attack him, since the RGC activation is interrupted. Then we are back in his activation and can move for the second action.

 

Correct. Them's the breaks. That RGC is nutbar.

7) Now it gets a bit tricky...
Ok, think about the situation as above, but the Wookiee is adjacent to the RGC too. So the RGC use Brutality for his first attack, and chooses first so resolve the attack against the AT-ST. If now the AT-ST is defeated and the RGC moves and attacks, such that now adjacent to Mak and no longer adjacent to the Wookiee. Is there a legal target for the second attack from Brutality?

a) Before removing the AT-ST from the map, and so before the interruption, the wookiee can be attacked from the RGC, since his first action must completly resolved before something happens.
b) In the other case, the RGC is no longer adjacent to the Wookiee, so he cannot attack him but now adjacent to Mak he can attack Mak.
c) Although not adjacent to the Wookiee, the Wookiee is the only legal target.
d) There is no legal target.
e) Both, Mak and the Wookiee can be attacked.
I think it must be a), what do you think

Might need a Fizzgrid™ for that answer, but the skinny is this: If the RGC used brutality and defeated the AT-ST with his first attack, then if you chose the 1 move/1 attack, those would be resolved as interrupts. After you resolve the move and the attack, you go back to the Brutality action to see if a second target is viable.

8) By the way, is it allowed to choose Brutality as an action even then there are no two different targets in range? And is it right that you cannot take a move action gaining some movement points, then do brutality, attack one target, then use your movement points to move to a second (different) target and then attack with the second attack from Brutality, since an action has to be fully resolved?

 

The Special Action Brutality must be fully resolved unless there is an interrupt that would come into play. Performing a move action first and having movement points available is not enough (aka, you cannot declare a move, then move 3 squares, declare brutality, attack once, move 1 square, attack again, and then use the last 2 movement points)

9) And a small timing question: If a Stormtrooper at 1 HP attack the last healthy Rebell and uses "Experimental Weapons (EW)", which will kill him after the attack, but only because of the extra surge the Rebell will be wounded, who wins? I think the Imp win because wounding the rebell is before (or simultaneous) suffering the 1Dam for EW, so in the worset case the Imp decides.

 

If the damage timing occurs at the same time, the Imperial player resolves the timing conflict. But in the case of EW, doesn't the card state that the attack takes the damage AFTER the attack is resolved? If so, there is no timing issue, the Imperial player has won.

 

 

Edited by Fizz

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Thank you for your quick answer.

Here a grid for 7:

1 = AT-ST, G=Garkhahn, R=RGC, M=Mak

Befor first attack:

[1][1][1]

[1][1][1]

[G][R][_]

After first attack, AT-ST defeated and Mak placed

[_][_][M]

[_][_][2]

[G][R][_]

Now the RGC interrupts with a move to 2 and attack M.

Who can be the target of the second attack from Brutality?

 

To 8): Is it allowed to choose Brutality as an action even then there are no two different targets in range? Same Situation as above without Garkhaan (and an empty fourth row). Like you hope to defeat the AT-ST and get into a better position to use the second attack from Brutality.

 

And to 9), you are right, but after a long discussion with the rebells I was not sure.

Edited by K3rmit

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7) Mak would be the only legal target for the second Brutality attack. If the RGC made the smarter move and moved here (to 2) instead:
 

[_][_][M]

[_][2][_]

[G][R][_]

 

Then he could target either Mak or Gaarkhan.

 

8) I would say yes, you could choose to use Brutality even if you don't have 2 viable targets, since you resolve the attacks one at a time, the second attack would be lost if there was not a viable target.

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Ok,

 

so choosing Brutality is always the better choice then an normal attack ;), not even in this special situation. An other situation can be if Jyn interrupts and move (however) adjacent to the RGC...

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question, cause we play yesterday this mission (imperial victory, end of turn 7):

- one of victory condition is to wounded each rebel heroes... while mak is inside the AT-ST, he's no more an heros but an ally, right? so, just to wound 3 others heroes (same, in general -means any mission-, with any rebel ally... must the imp wound him too?)

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In this particular mission, you would have to take out the AT-ST as well. Mak has special activation rules, and is in control of the AT-ST, and "jumps out" once the AT-ST is destroyed.

 

In other missions where the rebels are bringing an ally, then you would only need to wound the heroes.

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yes, but it's absolutly not mandatory to destroy the AT-ST...

and if all 3 others heroes are wounded, they are no more any unwounded heroes on the map...

 

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You have a valid point there, but you may want to get designer clarification then (see my email link below).

 

I believe the intention here is that Mak is unwounded and inside the AT-ST during the entire mission (there are special rules when the AT-ST is destroyed that the Imperial Player knows about that the rebels will not), and the rules are written in such a way to ensure that Mak isn't taking additional actions and isn't targeted.

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Hello

 

I've just send my question, I'll let you know inform, of course.

 

In fact, I ask 2 questions about this mission :)

This one, of course, the main one...

And a second: as "Mak inside AT-ST" is an ally, can rebels "buy" a regular ally (as Chewbacca) or it's impossible 'cause an ally still occurs on map? Have you an idea?

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Pg. 5 RRG "Rebel Allies"

 

"Some missions give heroes control of a specific ally for that

mission. These figures follow all normal rules for allies but

have special deployment rules and do not give the Imperial

player additional threat or an optional deployment. These

figures do not restrict heroes from choosing to deploy another

ally to the mission."

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Hello

I've just send my question, I'll let you know inform, of course.

In fact, I ask 2 questions about this mission :)

This one, of course, the main one...

And a second: as "Mak inside AT-ST" is an ally, can rebels "buy" a regular ally (as Chewbacca) or it's impossible 'cause an ally still occurs on map? Have you an idea?

Hi!

Did you get a feedeback regarding your questions?

Edited by Lynyrd

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If the AT-ST was activated during the round and was defeated in the same round, Mak comes out. Is the player still allowed to activate Mak in the same round or the "activated" status from AT-ST in the current round transfers to wounded Mak.

 

Also, I am correct in assuming that Mak comes out from AT-ST with his card turned to wounded (4 player game)?

Edited by robertpolson

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If the AT-ST was activated during the round and was defeated in the same round, Mak comes out. Is the player still allowed to activate Mak in the same round or the "activated" status from AT-ST in the current round transfers to wounded Mak.

 

Also, I am correct in assuming that Mak comes out from AT-ST with his card turned to wounded (4 player game)?

Stuff does not transfer between the two of them but the AT-ST activates when Mak does so he would have activated.

 

He's not necessarily wounded but he suffers 10 damage automatically which will wound him unless his health is increased somehow.

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The mission rule says that Mak activates to ready and activate the AT-ST. So if the AT-ST activated during the round, Mak already activated, so can't activate again during the same round unless he has more than 1 activation token.

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