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Tancradus

Creating a lightsaber.

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I need a little clarification...

 

When making a lightsaber, lets use a Barab Ingot as I received it on my jedi trial, almost died twice...

 

It stated that the ingot itself has 5 points to use.  Does that mean...

 

1) I grab a hilt for one, take the burn 1 quality for 2, and then buy either vicious or burn 1 a second time spending all of my points?

 

2) I get an attempt at each of the upgrades and my hilt is second entity? So I can get a superior curved hilt and essentially end up (if the rolls are successful) with burn 3, Vicious 2, Breach 1, Sunder...

 

I could use a little help regarding the hard points as I am new to upgrading my things....  I guess it makes sense that you could try to put everything on it given the price of the crystal.

 

Type slow.  I'm old. :)

 

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When you place your focusing crystal (in this case the Barab Ingot) into a lighsaber hilt (we'll go with the basic hilt for simplicity), that crystal will take up 2 of the 5 hard points that the hilt offers.  At that point, your lightsaber has all the traits that are listed under Base Modifiers; with the Barab Ingot that means your lightsaber has Damage 8,Crit 3, Breach 1, Burn 1, and Sunder, but still has 3 additional hard points that can be used for other attachments, such as superior hilt customization (1 hard point) and extended hilt (1 hard point) for a total of 4 out of the hilt's 5 hard points spent.

 

The modification options listed for the crystal (under Modification Options) do not require any additional hard points from the lightsaber hilt.  So with time, sufficient credits, and successful Mechanics checks, you could eventually add a +2 to Burn quality and 2 ranks of Vicious, with the crystal only requiring the same 2 hard points that did before you started modifying it.

 

So you're second guess is pretty much accurate.  And yes, generally speaking most players are going to try and get/complete as many of the modification options as are listed for a type of crystal as possible.

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Yep, same as modding any conventional attachment.

 

100 Credits and a Hard Mechanics check (tool kit required or suffer the penalties) for the first mod. Each additional Mod adds 100credits to the price (so the second mod costs 200, the third 300...) and increases the Mechanics difficulty by one step (so second is Daunting, third is Formidable, fourth is "Impossible").

 

If you fail the associated Mechanics check, you can't attempt to reinstall. It's just gone. If the item has multiple mod options of the same type each failed attempt is independent, so you can still attempt the others. (So if you have an attachment with 3 "Damage +1" mod options, and you fail the check the first time you try and increase the damage, that one is gone, but you can still try and increase the damage by +1 two more times).

 

If you fail the check and roll a Despair you blow the entire attachment. So watch it on the Impossible level checks as GMs like to toss Red dice on those. If you fail and despair on modding a crystal you turn your lightsaber into a paperweight.

Edited by Ghostofman

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Is there an increase of costs when adding these things?

As Ghostofman noted, they follow all the rules on modifying attachments, with the two noted exceptions in the Beta Updates of reducing the difficulty by two (minimum of Easy/1 purple) for a "personally-built" lightsaber and that a Force user gets to add their Force dice when modifying a focusing crystal.  That includes the escalating cost of making those modifications.

 

First Mod = 100 credits

2nd Mod = 200 credits

3rd Mod = 300 credits

etc, etc, until you run out of potential mods (either because you successfully installed them all, or failed the check on a couple and locked those mods out)

 

Also note that the cost in credits is paid regardless of your success or failure, but the cost and difficulty don't increase until you successfully completed that modification.

 

So for instance, if trying to modify an Ilum Crystal (4 +1 damage mods, 1 reduce crit by 1 mod, 2 Vicious +1 mods) on which you've already successfully added +2 to damage and reduced the crit to add a rank of Vicious (making that Mod #4), you'd spend 400 credits on associated parts (or just high-grade crystal polish according to Lorne) and roll against a final difficulty of 4 purple dice.  But presume that you failed the Mechanics check, which then "locks out" that specific Vicious +1 mod.  Later on, perhaps after doing something to improve your Mechanics check (such as buying a rank or finding a way to add a boost die or two), you try for the other Vicious +1 mod.  Although this is your 5th attempt at a modification, the cost and difficulty are still determined as though it were your 4th, because you still only have 3 successful modifications on your crystal.

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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal

Significance of colors

Around 4000 BBY, lightsaber crystals were used to indicate a Jedi's chosen class. Blue indicated a Jedi Guardian, a Jedi who used the Force on a more physical level. Green indicated a Jedi Consular, a Jedi who preferred to reflect on the mysteries of the Force and fight the dark side at its heart. Yellow indicated a Jedi Sentinel, a Jedi who honed their skills in a balance of combat and scholarly pursuits.

This distinction fell out of practice in later years when most Jedi used blue or green crystals from Ilum Caves based on personal choice, and then the use of crystals coming from various source worlds became marginal. Purple, yellow, and orange crystals were still used by some Jedi until the fall of the Jedi Order, but they were exceedingly rare, and often passed down through generations.[source?] During the Galactic Civil War, the Galactic Empire banned trade and possession of all lightsaber crystals.[source?] No longer having Ilum crystals at their disposal, Jedi of the New Jedi Order favored the use of various crystals and gems, creating lightsaber blades of multiple colors.

The synthetic crystals, favored by users of the dark side for their offensive properties, were impregnated with the negative energies of their creators which gave to the crystals their red color; the majority of the Sith and Dark Jedi wielded crimson-bladed lightsabers, though colors similar in hue to red, such as orange and magenta, were not unheard of.

Edited by archon007

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This may be an obvious question, but would non crystal mods increase the difficulty of adding crystal mods. If I'm working on my own lightsaber and adding an extended hilt as my first mod that would be an easy mechanics check, but then if I was adding a +1 damage crystal mod, that would be an average mechanic check?

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Nope, because the Extended hilt is an ATTACHMENT.  Not a Mod.

 

To clarify; Attachments are things like crystals, extended hit, superior, etc, and eat up Hard Points on the hilt.  There is no skill check to connect an Attachment to a weapon.  You simply get the Attachment and...uh..."attach it".

:rolleyes:

 

Attachments have Modifications, extra boosts to that particular attachment that boost the weapon's effects. Modifying an Attachment is what starts as a Hard Mechanics check, and increases with every additional modification you wish to make.  As stated, mods do not take up additional Hard Points.

 

And each attachment is separate as far as the increasing Mechanics difficulty for Mods.  So if you mod your crystal twice, your difficulty to mod your extended hilt the first time is still only Hard.  Seprate attachments, seprate scaling difficulties.

Edited by DarthGM

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Is there an increase of costs when adding these things?

As Ghostofman noted, they follow all the rules on modifying attachments, with the two noted exceptions in the Beta Updates of reducing the difficulty by two (minimum of Easy/1 purple) for a "personally-built" lightsaber and that a Force user gets to add their Force dice when modifying a focusing crystal.  That includes the escalating cost of making those modifications.

 

First Mod = 100 credits

2nd Mod = 200 credits

3rd Mod = 300 credits

etc, etc, until you run out of potential mods (either because you successfully installed them all, or failed the check on a couple and locked those mods out)

 

Also note that the cost in credits is paid regardless of your success or failure, but the cost and difficulty don't increase until you successfully completed that modification.

 

So for instance, if trying to modify an Ilum Crystal (4 +1 damage mods, 1 reduce crit by 1 mod, 2 Vicious +1 mods) on which you've already successfully added +2 to damage and reduced the crit to add a rank of Vicious (making that Mod #4), you'd spend 400 credits on associated parts (or just high-grade crystal polish according to Lorne) and roll against a final difficulty of 4 purple dice.  But presume that you failed the Mechanics check, which then "locks out" that specific Vicious +1 mod.  Later on, perhaps after doing something to improve your Mechanics check (such as buying a rank or finding a way to add a boost die or two), you try for the other Vicious +1 mod.  Although this is your 5th attempt at a modification, the cost and difficulty are still determined as though it were your 4th, because you still only have 3 successful modifications on your crystal.

 

Apparently you are wrong on the difficulties.. I love this errata!!! (also you can roll force die to add them as successes or advantages!!!!!)

 

Lightsaber Attachments (page 136): Add the following sentence as a separate paragraph to the main lightsaber attachment section: “When a character modifies attachments on his own lightsaber, he decreases the difficulty of the Mechanics check by two, to a minimum of Simple (–). What constitutes a character’s “own” lightsaber should be determined by the player and GM, but generally should be limited to a weapon used and possessed by the character exclusively. “Loaning” a lightsaber to another character who’s better at Mechanics is discouraged.”

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Lathrop's correct, I did account for the Beta Update in terms of the reduced difficulty.  Otherwise, the 4th modification would have been listed as being 1 red challenge die and 4 purple dice.  Which per an answer from Sam Stewart is what would happen when the difficulty on Mechanics checks to modify an attachment go past five dice, is that any difficulty increases that push the dice pool above 5 purple are treated as upgrades to the difficulty instead.

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I need to go back and read; I was unaware you could lose upgrades for failing. Sure, failure doesn't net you anything, and you spent resources, but to take away the option getting, say the second Vicious upgrade? Ouch. I suppose you could go get a new same crystal type, and start over, but ouch.

 

Yep, p.134, clear as day. Painful, but probably fair. Wise to prioritize, since most or all mods are as easily done, in whatever order; save the less important ones for later, I suppose.

Edited by venkelos

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I need to go back and read; I was unaware you could lose upgrades for failing. Sure, failure doesn't net you anything, and you spent resources, but to take away the option getting, say the second Vicious upgrade? Ouch. I suppose you could go get a new same crystal type, and start over, but ouch.

 

Yep, p.134, clear as day. Painful, but probably fair. Wise to prioritize, since most or all mods are as easily done, in whatever order; save the less important ones for later, I suppose.

That's been part and parcel of the system since Day 1 when the Edge of the Empire Beta rulebook was released.

 

So yes, it's quite deliberate on the part of the design team that while the first couple modifications might not be all that difficult, whether you're modifying a lightsaber crystal or a blaster actuating module, the later modifications are going to get considerably more difficult to reflect the constantly increasing bonuses provided by the modified attachment.

 

A fully modified Ilum crystal makes a lightsaber into a incredibly powerful weapon, and it's going to be the rare Force and Destiny character that gets a 'saber to that point without having first invested a lot of XP, either in Mechanics or boosting up their Force Rating, or some combination of both.

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With most devices, I assume you COULD just do like rich people do, and pay for the best, that is pay for someone you tracked down, who at least allegedly is that good, to twink, er tinker your blaster to amazing levels; I wonder if the lightsaber will say "no, YOU need to do it, so it is "attuned to you", as that's sort of what you are doing with the crystal. Here's hoping if worse came to worst, you could find an NPC Artisan, assuming you went a different direction, and pay them exorbitant amounts of money, or, being a Jedi-like character, perhaps, go on a tough quest, or three, to pay it off.

 

In the end, I do appreciate, though, that the lightsaber is returning to its rightful (in my opinion) place as an iconic, feared weapon, AND that, while even decent to start with, you need to work it up to be better.

 

Otherwise, I suppose I didn't read the EotE and AoR books as close as I might. I'll confess right now that when Edge was new, I hated it, with "no Jedi", a weird system, with weird dice, that I still don't entirely understand, and so I didn't give it its due then. Since then, I've come to terms more with my perceived shortcomings of the game, and may run it, if I can figure out some more of its mechanics, first. Still, screwing up part of a gun, a mass-produced piece of hardware you can buy almost anywhere, and losing an upgrade option, I can see getting mad, and having to go buy a new part, but lightsaber crystals aren't "sold at Corellia-Mart", even during the times when Jedi are not hunted (I see them as rare oddities, like Gene Starwind's caster gun shells, even on good days). To have that blow up, and need to go find another, would SUCK, and I wasn't aware that was a thing. I imagined you'd try, fail, curse, wait, spend more, try again, maybe spend a Destiny Point to forgo the loss (again, not as proficient with this system as I'd like to be.) Oh well, when it's possibly the only weapon you'll mostly use, and the only upgrade you might get for it, it's not so terrible a thing.

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Yeah, I also believe that crystals are too much a luxury (and sabers too much a "thing") to just let bad luck screw it all. Even at Average difficulty dice can troll you. Maybe you're not much into the saber thing, then it's ok, but to spoil an important upgrade on your Krayt Dragon Pearl? Ufff...

 

If I were the GM and believed you had bad luck on an important upgrade, being your saber a very important focus of your PC, I might think about allowing another attempt if:

-You improved your Intelligence score (the one used in the Mechanics roll, though any other score if the GM feels suitable)

-You improved your FR (after all you are connected to your saber through the Force)

-You played a whole adventure trying to find a hidden place where to atune or where to find a Master who unveiled some secrets on saber construction (like when Luke goes to Dagobah)

-Maybe an adventure about finding another crystal (what the Force takes, the Force gives :P)

-Any combination of the above options

 

Of course, understand that this is not meant to make the Mechanics roll irrelevant, just to let the player overcome an obstacle while enriching the story and gameplay experience. Allowing constant repetitions would turn the game into a sort of comedy, like Dragon Ball's "we can die everytime, we have infinite resurrects".

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I'll play the Sith's advocate on this one. It's not like the crystal is destroyed on failure. That only happens on a despair. it's just that the mod that is rendered useless. One mod of several on the crystal.

 

Having a fully modified lightsaber crystal should not be a given right. It's achieved by dedication (spending XP to increase mechanics and intellect) and some luck. I'm all for making the check easier, but I don't want the players getting angry at me or the rules when that mod is nulled because of a failed roll.

 

Jereru had some good suggestions on retrying that mod. I like the idea of only retrying when the circumstances of changed significantly, which is done through experience.

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Actually, you really don't need to get an Ilum crystal fully modified to have it be a potent weapon.

 

The Dawn of Defiance game I'm in, my PC is using a Dantari crystal that does 8 damage and crit 1, and it's pretty darn effective against bad guys, thanks in large part to that Breach 1 quality.  And thanks to our Twi'lek Smuggler/Gambler actually managing to win the Cloud City Sabacc Tourney, getting that superior hilt customization just became a whole lot more feasible, so that's another +1 damage.

 

I've got PCs in my Force and Destiny game that are running around with crystals obtained from the adventure in the Beta rulebook, and they're plenty dangerous against minions and rivals.  They've only faced a couple of Nemesis adversaries, but the players were plagued with such poor dice rolls that even having the EotE/AoR lightsabers wouldn't have really helped; after all, all the damage in the galaxy doesn't help if you can't make a successful attack against your target.

 

And truthfully, if you really want your PC to have a lightsaber that's comparable to the EotE and AoR versions, then you don't want an Ilum crystal; what you want is a Krayt Dragon Pearl, as that's a lot closer to start with, and only needs two modifications to match the EotE/AoR lightsabers in terms of damage, crit rating, and ranks of Vicious.  And two modifications on a personal lightsaber crystal aren't all that difficult for a PC with Intellect 2 and Force Rating 1.  Tricky part however is getting the Krayt Dragon Pearl.

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Yeah, I'm certain I just come off as the Star Wars Jedi fanboy who wants lightsabers to be the be-all and end-all weapons (I sort of do, I won't lie), but while I'm actually rather a fan of balance, and making everyone else as useful/important as "the Jedi in the party", the lightsaber seems to be the only weapon where, if you do NEED to get another of that part, good luck buddy. Sure, some blaster parts are hard to get, expensive, and maybe not even obtainable legally, but lightsaber parts aren't even made now, and you will probably get killed, or ratted out, if you start looking for them, and this all fits with the theme and time, but if the Gunslinger's new barrel loses its third mod, he can possibly go buy another, cussing under his breath, but the Jedi HAS to go find a whole new crystal, which is usually an adventure. Yeah, you don't NEED every upgrade, I agree, but it just seems weird to have it go to that extreme, even for the other weapons, really. Still, at least one knows, now, and if it ever becomes relevant, can plan around it. Another good reason to grab, or to know someone else who has grabbed Artisan, for Inventor and Master Artisan.

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And again, you DON"T need to fully modify an Ilum crystal in order for it to be an effective weapon for your Jedi.  Even at just the basic level, it's still effective, especially when your PC as multiple talents to back up that effectiveness, such as Saber Swarm (add Linked = Force Rating for next attack), Sarlacc Sweep (autofire, but have to target different enemy with each hit), or Disruptive Strike (add automatic failures to foe's next attack check against you), just to name a few.

 

Frankly, it really does seem that a number of folks are hung up on the "gotta get them all!" aspect of the modifications.  When frankly, you really don't need to have a fully modified lightsaber crystal in order to have an effective lightsaber.  The fact they all have Breach 1 goes a very long way towards making the lightsaber an effective weapon no matter what the damage rating is.

 

And since anyone else doing attachment modifications starts off at a Hard difficulty and could be just as crummy at making Mechanics checks (really, how many Hired Guns buy up their Intellect or invest several ranks in Mechanics), for the Force and Destiny crowd to have both a drastically reduced difficulty and being able to add their Force Rating (which becomes more useful/important as you improve it) gives them enough of a head start.

 

But I guess for the raving Jedi fanboys like ErikB, nothing short of making Jedi be uber-gods that trounce all other PCs won't ever be enough :rolleyes:

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What do you mean "making Jedi uber-gods"? They already are!!!  :lol:

Na, really, I don't even count on having a saber full-modded, I just meant you could give a second chance IF the story feels about it and it's an important thing for the PC to have his Barab Ingot fully ready to burn ;) Not just a means to min-max.

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One thing to also consider is that not all crystals are going to be "one-off" acquisitions.

 

It could very well be that the PCs discover a reliable source of lightsaber crystals (such as the Athiss Crystals from the FaD Beta adventure) that they can access fairly easily to get a replacement crystal if they really botch the job on modifying a 'saber crystal.  At that point, they're really only out the credits spent on prior modifications instead of the thousands of credits that each crystal is priced at.  And it'd be up to the GM what degree of quality the crystals from that particular source are.  The Athiss Crystals are decent, but certainly are not among the better variety of focusing crystals.  The Dantari Crystals have only a slight edge in damage over an Ilum Crystal but not a lot of modification options (a couple more points of damage and a decreased crit rating), but as Dantooine is such a remote and largely overlooked world it's possible the PCs could discover a vein of such crystals that the Empire is completely unaware of.  Heck, the PCs might even come across a source of crystals that are on par with the Ilum Crystals in terms of game mechanics.

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Well, the fact is that sometimes the GM wants to give the players some rewards. And if he happens to know that this is what the player wants, then why let a silly rule screw it? Play an epic adventure to get your reward and be telling your grandsons for all of eternity :)

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And again, you DON"T need to fully modify an Ilum crystal in order for it to be an effective weapon for your Jedi.  Even at just the basic level, it's still effective, especially when your PC as multiple talents to back up that effectiveness, such as Saber Swarm (add Linked = Force Rating for next attack), Sarlacc Sweep (autofire, but have to target different enemy with each hit), or Disruptive Strike (add automatic failures to foe's next attack check against you), just to name a few.

 

Frankly, it really does seem that a number of folks are hung up on the "gotta get them all!" aspect of the modifications.  When frankly, you really don't need to have a fully modified lightsaber crystal in order to have an effective lightsaber.  The fact they all have Breach 1 goes a very long way towards making the lightsaber an effective weapon no matter what the damage rating is.

 

And since anyone else doing attachment modifications starts off at a Hard difficulty and could be just as crummy at making Mechanics checks (really, how many Hired Guns buy up their Intellect or invest several ranks in Mechanics), for the Force and Destiny crowd to have both a drastically reduced difficulty and being able to add their Force Rating (which becomes more useful/important as you improve it) gives them enough of a head start.

 

But I guess for the raving Jedi fanboys like ErikB, nothing short of making Jedi be uber-gods that trounce all other PCs won't ever be enough :rolleyes:

While I certainly would prefer something akin to the "ridiculous, but you won't have skill with it" variants of the other two books, I certainly can agree that, even as is, your average lightsaber can be very effective.

 

 

Or they just fail the roll. Period.  That "one is not available", get over it.  Not all magical items found in fantasy games have to be the best, some are only +2 holy weapons and not Holy Avengers..

May very well be true, and on its own merits, even fine, but was still a bit of a surprise, is all. Most lightsaber crystals aren't as common as most other weapon's upgrade bits, and few other such pieces require you to storm a star destroyer blockade (various, possibly non-canonical now, but like I listen to Disney, versions of fluff have the planet Ilum protected by star destroyers, to make sure no resurgent Jedi try to get more of their more prevalent crystals.) It just seemed odd to, somehow, get that krayt dragon pearl, and then have it fail on a bad roll, because you probably aren't getting that one again. Still, so long as it is something I can go into the planning stages knowing, so that I can prioritize the upgrades I get, I don't really have a problem with it. Biggest point, I DO appreciate that the book doesn't pull some magical rule out of the usual place that says only you can enhance your crystal, as it's maybe more a Force attunement thing than crystal polish and a diamond expert chipping little corners off, to make the energy shine through it in just such a way. If I'm worried, I can pay someone else to upgrade it, and I'm happy about that. Here's hoping it's not in the errata, along with the leg ups Jedi-themes get with using the Force to upgrade their weapon.

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