Jyn - Trick Shot

[DessonRathma 2]

Hello,

 

I encountered a potential issue regarding Jyn's trick shot ability. A player recently expressed interest in purchasing this ability and the other players agreed it sounded very good. I, as the Imperial player, also agreed this ability seemed to give Jyn a great edge due to her short range but pointed out that she may have accuracy issues as this would still trace from her character, not from the new square that was designated as the 'attack square' for LoS purposes. One player stated this did not make any sense and range should be calculated from the new 'attack square' and not from the square Jyn is currently in.

 

To me, it seems the shot is still coming from Jyn, and should be calculated from the square she is currently occupying. This however, seems to introduce another question, whether this distance is calculated directly from Jyn's square to the target square, regardless of blocking figures/terrain, or if it is calculated from Jyns square to the new attacking square and then to the target. It would seem that the latter would make the most sense, but I wanted to be sure before we actually play with this ability.

 

Even taking the most restrictive example (calculating range from Jyn to the 'attack square', then to the target) this ability still seems great to me as it opens a large amount of options for targeting but the players seems to be split on how the ability works and if it is worth purchasing. 

 

Thanks to all in advance.

[LukeZZ 26]

There are variosu threads upon this subject (Jyn's Trick Shot ability), the consensus is that spaces are still counted from Jyn's figure.

 

Anyway, from FFG rulings, Trick Shot can be used to activate Jyn's "interrupt attack" abilities (Quick Draw and Peacemaker), so I would say it's still very good.

Edited March 22, 2015 by LukeZZ

[DessonRathma 2]

Thanks, but just to clarify...

 

Are the ranged spaces counted from Jyns square, to the new 'attack square', and then to the target? Or are they counted directly from Jyn to the target, regardless of blocking figures? The specific situation that caused this question was a hallway 2 squares wide, with heroes occupying both squares and Jyn was positioned behind them. In a normal situation, she would not be able to attack through them, however, with trick shot it would be possible. The question became how to calculate range using trick shot. For example, if the new 'attack sqaure' was 2 squares from Jyn (going through the allied figures) and that square was two squares away from her target, would she need a range 4 to complete her attack? Or would this range be calculated directly from Jyn to the target, regardless of other figures in the attacks path, which could potentially reduce the range needed?

 

I have read the previous posts regarding Jyns Quick Draw and Peacemaker, however, they didn't seem to answer this question specifically. Sorry if I'm missing something simple (though I'm sure I am).

[a1bert 4,115]

Trick Shot only gets around Line of Sight, it does not change the range / distance / accuracy rules. (Because the card does not specify it.)

 

So, count spaces from Jyn to the target.

Edited March 22, 2015 by a1bert

[solitear 4]

Yea.    It says draw line of sight.

 

the attack still comes from the figure in that case.  If it was meant to affect range too they would have just worded it as "Attack from any space within 3 spaces"   Figures only affect LOS Calculation so no worries about that when resolving the dice.

 

cool thing is she can be in good cover and still killing things...around a corner or behind friendly figures.    

[elansar 1]

I would like to seek further clarifications on counting spaces from Jyn to the target when using Trick Shot.
 

1.  When performing Trick Shot, can Jyn draw LOS from any 3 space, ignoring terrains / walls?  For example, if Jyn is behind a wall, is she able to draw LOS directly over the wall?

2.  If Jyn is behind a wall and uses Trick Shot on an IP figure at the other side of the wall, is the accuracy needed counted from the space directly between Jyn and the target, ignoring terrain restrictions, or does it need to follow the space needed to make a normal movement to the target?

 

Combining the two questions into 1, if you refer to the simple diagram below, assuming there's an infinite wall separating Jyn (J) from the Trooper (T) between row 1 and row 2.  Is Jyn able to use Trick Shot to draw LOS from square 4?  If yes, would her attack hit if she rolls an accuracy of 5?

 

7

6              T

5

4

3

2

1              J

 

 

 

 

[SheriffWarMachine 0]

On 2015-4-6 at 6:00 PM, elansar said:

I would like to seek further clarifications on counting spaces from Jyn to the target when using Trick Shot.
 

Quote

1.  When performing Trick Shot, can Jyn draw LOS from any 3 space, ignoring terrains / walls?  For example, if Jyn is behind a wall, is she able to draw LOS directly over the wall?

2.  If Jyn is behind a wall and uses Trick Shot on an IP figure at the other side of the wall, is the accuracy needed counted from the space directly between Jyn and the target, ignoring terrain restrictions, or does it need to follow the space needed to make a normal movement to the target?

 

Combining the two questions into 1, if you refer to the simple diagram below, assuming there's an infinite wall separating Jyn (J) from the Trooper (T) between row 1 and row 2.  Is Jyn able to use Trick Shot to draw LOS from square 4?  If yes, would her attack hit if she rolls an accuracy of 5?

 

7

6              T

5

4

3

2

1              J

 

 

 

 

Hi everyone,

I would very much appreciate someone coming in and clarifying point one. 

My group and I debated on this point for a long while the other night and we are still not 100% certain. The difference of opinion was simply whether it is "any space" (ignoring walls etc) or one that could only be counted as your movement points are.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Stompburger 685]

4 hours ago, SheriffWarMachine said:

My group and I debated on this point for a long while the other night and we are still not 100% certain. The difference of opinion was simply whether it is "any space" (ignoring walls etc) or one that could only be counted as your movement points are.

See "Counting Spaces" in the Rules Reference Guide. When counting spaces you ignore additional movement point costs for difficult terrain and hostile figures, and you can count through impassible terrain. You cannot, however, count through blocking terrain, doors, or walls. You also can't select (i.e., count to) a space that is blocking terrain.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Stompburger

[a1bert 4,115]

Line of sight and the required accuracy are determined separately. The required accuracy does not need to follow the same spaces as the line of sight determination. Trick Shot does not change how the accuracy is determined, it only affects line of sight. You will be counting spaces from Jyn to the target space through any valid path that gives you the minimum distance.

 

[SheriffWarMachine 0]

14 hours ago, a1bert said:

Line of sight and the required accuracy are determined separately. The required accuracy does not need to follow the same spaces as the line of sight determination. Trick Shot does not change how the accuracy is determined, it only affects line of sight. You will be counting spaces from Jyn to the target space through any valid path that gives you the minimum distance.

 

I think this is the point my group had difficulty accepting. I, as the IP was certain that you must count a "valid path" from which you were and not just any three spaces surrounding Jyn, ignoring walls and terrain. 

Half the problem was that we just couldn't find the right rule or forum post that clarified it. Thank you both for your help. The 'counting spaces' rule is what I was looking for so I'm really glad I asked and thank you very much.

[a1bert 4,115]

Here's Clipper's picture showing how counting along line of sight (orange) and shortest path (green) give different distances.

Edited June 15, 2017 by a1bert

[ManateeX 1,293]

1 hour ago, a1bert said:

Here's Clipper's picture showing how counting along line of sight (orange) and shortest path (green) give different distances.

Interesting!  And from my reading of "accuracy" in the RRG that situation in the photo doesn't even have anything to do with Trick Shot.  Is that the case?  I mean I doubt it's a situation that will come up very often, and it's a little counter-intuitive, but it does seem to be the way it works according to the rules.

Edited June 15, 2017 by ManateeX

[a1bert 4,115]

Yes, it's normal determination of the required accuracy. And Trick Shot does not change that, only how to draw line of sight.

 

[ATM2100 74]

it isn't really worth having trick shot if you  don't get the extra rage.

[totalnoob 454]

Well, we have certainly been playing this wrong. Not sure how often it's applicable though. Honestly looking at the photo above, thematically it would make more sense to have the accuracy requirement follow the LoS line (needing 5). If you only have LoS peeking around a corner, you should need greater accuracy to land the difficult shot.

[a1bert 4,115]

It just is not worth the effort to formulate and use a rule that is complex and hard to understand to cover these corner cases.

It doesn't come to matter often, because there are not that many tiles with blocking terrain edges or maps with walls in a suitable configuration.

Funnily though, it may come to matter in Aftermath, the first mission in the core campaign.

[a1bert 4,115]

35 minutes ago, ATM2100 said:

it isn't really worth having trick shot if you  don't get the extra rage.

Trick Shot is not about range, it is a guarantee that Jyn can pull off her Quick Draw. (In addition to not needing to move that much before attacking, she can use strain for Trick Shot and use Opportunist and Sidewinder to move instead of suffering strain to move.)

(I'm not sure Trick Shot is worth 4 XP though, but it's certainly worth more than 2 XP.)

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by a1bert

[ATM2100 74]

48 minutes ago, a1bert said:

Trick Shot is not about range, it is a guarantee that Jyn can pull off her Quick Draw. (In addition to not needing to move that much before attacking, she can use strain for Trick Shot and use Opportunist and Sidewinder to move instead of suffering strain to move.)

(I'm not sure Trick Shot is worth 4 XP though, but it's certainly worth more than 2 XP.)

 

I see. thank you.