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Lucas Blackwolf

First impressions

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So, what are everyone's first impressions on the game?

I'll just start by saying I hope this game does better than the WarCry did. The concept is entirely different and carries a strong pedigree thenks to the design team, the art design is fresh (a C/LCG where more than half of the card is designated for the art!!!) and it's a LCG, so I think it has a brighter future.

At the same time I hope it doesn't spell pulling the plug on the CoC in the long term, but there's nothing that can be done here, only sells can "decide".

Does anyone else think this should have an option of a multiplayer game? Fluffwise I think having more kingdoms bickering for power would be cool, especially if the game flows as fast as it claims. Things might be more complicated though, will have to see when the rules are out.

For now, I'm quite excited.

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I'm also excited. I just hope it is fairly balanced for multi player.

HOWEVER I have concerns with its 'fast pace'. Warhammer battles are never FAST PACED. (lol) But also really... shouldn't it take more than a few turns to take down the capitol of the Empire (altdorf, right?)? ... !

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Lucas Blackwolf said:

So, what are everyone's first impressions on the game?

I'll just start by saying I hope this game does better than the WarCry did. The concept is entirely different and carries a strong pedigree thenks to the design team, the art design is fresh (a C/LCG where more than half of the card is designated for the art!!!) and it's a LCG, so I think it has a brighter future.

At the same time I hope it doesn't spell pulling the plug on the CoC in the long term, but there's nothing that can be done here, only sells can "decide".

Does anyone else think this should have an option of a multiplayer game? Fluffwise I think having more kingdoms bickering for power would be cool, especially if the game flows as fast as it claims. Things might be more complicated though, will have to see when the rules are out.

For now, I'm quite excited.

 

If the Game of Thrones card game and the listed contents for the Warhammer LCG are any indication, there should be robust multiplayer support (game board, 4 decks by card count, etc. ). I'm a huge Warhammer nut, so between this, Chaos in the Old World, and Rogue Trader (plus my new Fantasy armies!) I'm having a total Wargasm this year. Thanks FFG, you owe me new pants :)

Gorgeous art so far, by the way.

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I'm so excited for a WFB LCG, but I am a little dissapointed that they're going with the whole order vs. destruction thing, I want each faction to feel seperate from the others and I'm hoping that will still be accomplished.

I also would've liked to have one of the elven or undead factions as one of the core set factions, here's hoping for faction expansions!

The gameplay sounds like alot of fun too, from what little we know.

FFG why do you have to make awesome games?

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Atendarius said:

I'm so excited for a WFB LCG, but I am a little dissapointed that they're going with the whole order vs. destruction thing, I want each faction to feel seperate from the others and I'm hoping that will still be accomplished.

 

Yeah I would have to agree, if I had any "concerns" as of now, it's that I would like every race to be fleshed out and feel different. Hopefully this Order VS Destruction model lets you build pure dwarf decks or pure chaos decks. That being said, I can't wait to play this! gui%C3%B1o.gif

As a side question, should I look at FFG other LCGs? How similiar is this going to be to the other ones? Just wanted to see if I can get a feel for how this game might be played. happy.gif

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Not very much like any of the other two, if you ask me. But they're both cool games on their own; pick one if it interests you, you shouldn't be disappointed.

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Mazinkaiser said:

Atendarius said:

 

I'm so excited for a WFB LCG, but I am a little dissapointed that they're going with the whole order vs. destruction thing, I want each faction to feel seperate from the others and I'm hoping that will still be accomplished.

 

 

 

Yeah I would have to agree, if I had any "concerns" as of now, it's that I would like every race to be fleshed out and feel different. Hopefully this Order VS Destruction model lets you build pure dwarf decks or pure chaos decks. That being said, I can't wait to play this! gui%C3%B1o.gif

As a side question, should I look at FFG other LCGs? How similiar is this going to be to the other ones? Just wanted to see if I can get a feel for how this game might be played. happy.gif

All LCG's so far have an 'Eric Lang' signature to them. At least, if you look deep enough. I play a lot of Call of Cthulhu and it's pretty awesome, though from what I've seen from Warhammer Invasion, it's going to be another timesink for me.

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Yeah, this game looks great, and the gameplay looks intriguing, especially from the product description page.

I wonder how soon after the core set they'll start releasing chapter packs? 

I also wonder if those big capital boards will have any gameplay use with all of the space they take up, or what?

 

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This looks like it could be a very strong game. But I'm wondering if they're going to try tie-ins with Warhammer Online, like the WoW card game did. 

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The article mentioned some special "loot" for the people who play WAR.

But since they are not randomly inserted into boosterpacks they'll be easily attainable.

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Mig el Pig said:

 

The article mentioned some special "loot" for the people who play WAR.

But since they are not randomly inserted into boosterpacks they'll be easily attainable.

 

 

Oh, I completely missed that the first time, thanks for pointing it out. The good news is, neither of those items are particularly special or enhance gameplay in a significant way, so we won't have to deal with that same mad craze. In addition to the fact that they won't be random, of course.

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I don't know how many people who have commented so far have actually played Warhammer Online, but this seems to be fairly well tied in (not that they couldn't break away). The set-up that FFG is describing is exactly how the MMO works: Empire, High Elves, and Dwarves vs. Chaos, Dark Elves, and Orcs. I'm guessing that they will tie in to the MMO which I feel will definitely be a positive.

What I'm really excited to see is a card game designed from the ground up to be an LCG. I think the only thing possibly holding the current other LCG games is just that there isn't really a clearly defined arc per se... after all the LCG was kind of stumbled upon with the Asylum Packs. I know the chapter packs are broken up into arcs, but it's a bit confusing coming in to the middle of it. Between this and L5R I think I've found my card games for awhile.

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None of the WoW Loot cards changed much did they?

And BTW taking some from one random stat and adding it to another random stat IS significant... HOWEVER keep in mind WAR: MMO is a MANY vs MANY MMO. Seldom does one man make a HUGE difference. So no. One person swapping some random stat numbers around isn't huge, but it'll be good for that person from time to time.

If I still had my account (might have to resub after gencon!) I'd be happy to use that stat swapping item!

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FangsFirst said:

I don't know how many people who have commented so far have actually played Warhammer Online, but this seems to be fairly well tied in (not that they couldn't break away). The set-up that FFG is describing is exactly how the MMO works: Empire, High Elves, and Dwarves vs. Chaos, Dark Elves, and Orcs. I'm guessing that they will tie in to the MMO which I feel will definitely be a positive.

What I'm really excited to see is a card game designed from the ground up to be an LCG. I think the only thing possibly holding the current other LCG games is just that there isn't really a clearly defined arc per se... after all the LCG was kind of stumbled upon with the Asylum Packs. I know the chapter packs are broken up into arcs, but it's a bit confusing coming in to the middle of it. Between this and L5R I think I've found my card games for awhile.

 

I feel the same way. I was planning to buy the Game of Thrones LCG, but with all the chapters already out, it kind of stopped me. With a brand new LCG out, i feel like i can start fresh.

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no matter how many are out if you just buy one a month it would be the same thing as starting from the ground up (dunno where to start, start at the first Chapter pack).

 

In a year are you going to tell new players to warhammer to wait for the next LCG to start up becuase there are so many chapter packs out?

 

thats the beauty of LCG. You can go at your own pace. And are not severly hurt by coming in at any other time (take AGoT for example if you picked it up tomorrow and only started with the new cycle of chapter packs, which there are 2 of so far, you would be in a fine position becuase the new chapter pack is taking the game in its direct, just as the previous two did and you can have a couple of solid deck archtypes from one chapter pack cycle).

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What i'm wondering is, wether it will be possible to pit Chaos versus Dark Eldar.
If that is possible, pitting Disorder versus another Disorder faction, i'll probably get it.

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vermillian said:

None of the WoW Loot cards changed much did they?

And BTW taking some from one random stat and adding it to another random stat IS significant... HOWEVER keep in mind WAR: MMO is a MANY vs MANY MMO. Seldom does one man make a HUGE difference. So no. One person swapping some random stat numbers around isn't huge, but it'll be good for that person from time to time.

If I still had my account (might have to resub after gencon!) I'd be happy to use that stat swapping item!

Well, the WoW loot cards were largely cosmetic, but the cosmetic factors were significant. When someone had a spectral tiger, you took notice -- and that's exactly what they wanted when they got the mount. Same goes for that fishing chair/umbrella, turtle mount, non-combat pets, etc. The WAR promotional items are *typically* much less obvious, with a couple of exceptions. That reduces the craze-factor, so I'm thankful for that.

Honestly though, this is just going to be a "fun" item. +5 to a stat, especially at higher levels, won't provide a noticeable boost. The chances of you getting an undesirable stat +/- are probably close to 50%, depending on your archetype/class and your own personal goals. But, since it's a buff, you can click it off if you don't like the stat combo. The real problem, though, is that the item has a 60 minute cooldown and the buff only has a 5 minute duration (and by definition, disappears on death). So, if you remember you have it at all, I'd save it for situations where death is more infrequent, like an RvE public quest. RvR is naturally unpredictable and increases your chances of wasting that hour cooldown.

Just as a random aside, I'd have to disagree on one person not making a huge difference... several times a day, I see RvR situations made or broken by the actions of one player. :) Granted, that's exclusive to RvR.

In the end, my best recommendation would be to buy Invasion because it's probably going to be an amazing game, not because of the WAR promo items. They're just a fun little bonus.

FangsFirst said:

I don't know how many people who have commented so far have actually played Warhammer Online, but this seems to be fairly well tied in (not that they couldn't break away). The set-up that FFG is describing is exactly how the MMO works: Empire, High Elves, and Dwarves vs. Chaos, Dark Elves, and Orcs. I'm guessing that they will tie in to the MMO which I feel will definitely be a positive.

I noticed this too -- even some of the art appears to be WAR concept art, particularly the capital cities. I'm sure the intention is to build a game that the MMO players will want to pick up, in addition to the requisite fans of the IP itself. And I'm not ashamed to admit that in my case, it's already working. :)

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Darthvegeta800 said:

What i'm wondering is, wether it will be possible to pit Chaos versus Dark Eldar.
If that is possible, pitting Disorder versus another Disorder faction, i'll probably get it.

sure. they only thing you can't do with the factions is put order and destruction together in the same deck. You cna have chaos on choas [hot :P] action. chaos verse orcs and once they are more then a support race chaos verse dark elder.

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Don't worry you can absolutely play an all Dwarf (of any single faction) if you want to, Order and destruction are there for people who want allies.

See you on the battle field,

Steve 

Mazinkaiser said:

Atendarius said:

 

I'm so excited for a WFB LCG, but I am a little dissapointed that they're going with the whole order vs. destruction thing, I want each faction to feel seperate from the others and I'm hoping that will still be accomplished.

 

 

 

Yeah I would have to agree, if I had any "concerns" as of now, it's that I would like every race to be fleshed out and feel different. Hopefully this Order VS Destruction model lets you build pure dwarf decks or pure chaos decks. That being said, I can't wait to play this! gui%C3%B1o.gif

As a side question, should I look at FFG other LCGs? How similiar is this going to be to the other ones? Just wanted to see if I can get a feel for how this game might be played. happy.gif

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And Steve... why didn't you tell me about this sooner? :P

Oh and the WAR promotional items are only a +5 -5 stat boost... yeah 5 isn't that much at all... heh. (quite a bit in tier 1 however).

I'm thinking the rules appear to support having Order vs. Order or Destro vs. Destro... not that I've played it mind you... or even read the rules.

lastly, no you cannot have Chaos vs. Dark Eldar in this game BECAUSE THERE IS NO ELDAR in warhammer fantasy... dark ELVES perhaps.

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So...is this why all those Warhammer UFS cards were never becoming tourney legal? aplauso.gif

If we wanted to complete a playset of every card in the game, how many boxes would we need?  So far it looks nice, but I really would like to see the mechanics.  Always did like playing Empire gunbunnies.

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As with other LCGs, one complete playset would probably require one to three boxes (or, one per lowest number of unique cards included times the maximum number of copies allowed...which with CoC means three, but until we see the card break-down and the rules we won't know).

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Yeah, I'm willing to bet it will follow the rest of their LCG models with a limit of 3 per card per deck. Call of Cthulhu used to be 4 copies per card until the change to LCG, and the packaging model -- 10 cards @ 1 copy each, 10 cards @ 3 copies each -- is most likely what we can expect here. I haven't looked at the pricing yet either, but I'm willing to bet $40 for the core set and $10 per pack. So $120 for a playset of the core, $30 a month for the new cards.

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nullstate said:

FangsFirst said:

 

I don't know how many people who have commented so far have actually played Warhammer Online, but this seems to be fairly well tied in (not that they couldn't break away). The set-up that FFG is describing is exactly how the MMO works: Empire, High Elves, and Dwarves vs. Chaos, Dark Elves, and Orcs. I'm guessing that they will tie in to the MMO which I feel will definitely be a positive.

 

I noticed this too -- even some of the art appears to be WAR concept art, particularly the capital cities. I'm sure the intention is to build a game that the MMO players will want to pick up, in addition to the requisite fans of the IP itself. And I'm not ashamed to admit that in my case, it's already working. :)

 

 

Yeah, I had the same reaction with the WoW minis, and before that the City of Heroes CCG. Tying in to an IP is great, but when you can shadow the actual feel of the game, bring in what's familiar even if you have to change it, it really helps to bring home the experience. FFG did the same thing with both the WoW board games too.

Lars:

But that's exactly my point, I agree that technically you could start anywhere, but where do you start? My own unfamiliarity with it combined with the fact that I usually trailblaze new games so my friends know what to buy means that it makes me hesitant to buy, as much as I love Cthulhu and Game of Thrones. Now say I've never really done a CCG or LCG and my playgroup is also all new; Other than just all deciding on a story to pick on, where do we start for chapter packs? I think one of the strong points to CCG's is when they do have a current play environment and that environment is easy to explain.

For example, though there is no symbol, it's fairly easy with just a bit of knowledge to know what is Magic Type 2 legal (well along with the gigantic list of errata, restrictions, and bannings usually). For L5R, it's extremely easy: if it's bugged, it's legal for that environment. The only tricky part is if you have old cards, knowing which have been reprinted and what the most recent printing (MRP) is.

I would love to see something similar in an LCG. Say the last 3 "story lines" or whatever you want to call them are legal. That means that the furthest you have to go back is a year (going along with monthly release x4 = story line x3 = 12 months = 1 year). While I imagine it would be easier for FFG to go back to press on Chapter packs, it's still hard to tell exactly when something's going to sell like hot cakes and be hard to find. Along those same lines, I imagine it's hard to know when going back to press will be profitable. Going back more than a year is usually the painful point in most CCG's, both price-wise and even just trying to find the stuff.

Obviously the big sets like the base set stay until the new one comes out. This may seem like superfluous, but what I'm looking at is not the price of maintaining, which is very modest even if you want a playset of everything. I'm looking at buying into the game 6 months to 2 to 3 years later.

Say you introduce a friend to the game 2 years down the line, he loves it and wants all possible build options. Just for one year, a complete playset of everything would cost you $360 (assuming the current 3x per card in a deck, allowing multiple unique cards, and current chapter pack setup). Now I've dropped more than that on base sets of some CCG's, so it's definitely more economical.

Let's go with a more realistic 1 per chapter pack and only needing half of them. For two years, you're still looking at $120, but for one year you either get one of each or 2 of half of the chapter packs for the same amount. Adding in the base set (assuming once again that the price point is the same), you're looking at $160 to buy in potentially at a tourney level a year in the game. You have to drop $160 for most ccg expansions if you want to make sure you're going to have the playset of what you need.

My own impressions from playing CCG's are that it's also best if you have a regular cycling out of cards. It's nice to have a familiar game that has an entirely new environment to it, and I imagine this would be much easier to keep up with in an LCG for players. And of course you can always have legacy formats.

Wow this kind of went off the rails, but I still feel that it stays on topic enough. I wish everything would go to an LCG format, it would let me buy more FFG boardgames! ^^  Seriously though, I think if they just added some kind of stated cycle and/or bug for legality this would be my favorite style of game: regular infusions of new option, both more frequently and non-randomly. It also definitely helps to at least build interest in those turned off by collectibles (read: just about everyone). I think the only thing that keeps the current collectible games alive is just brand recognition, longevity, and/or strength of the game itself.

The only other thing I might suggest is making uniques actually one per deck. For those casually playing it means there is a flat $10/month to keep up to date, and for people like me who make multiple decks it still ranges from $10-$30. Just guessing, but I'd honestly be surprised if this changed how the chapter packs are currently purchased. I could be wrong though...

As far as the chaos vs. chaos, I think they'd have to allow it unless they make it like the old Star Wars CCG, where you actually HAD to have 2 different decks, which seems to go against everything we've seen.

*Edit: cut out a lot of the quote

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Definitely looking forward to this game big time.  

However, is it just me or does the packaging seem a little odd?  You are going to end up with 9 of some cards to get three of others, why not just make it 3 of each card for $15.  (Yes its the same price per card, and it puts you at the same monthly price as an MMO)

The starter set seems ok, but I wish it was packaged in a friendlier manner towards getting copies 2 and 3 of cards.  I'd rather not have 3 huge boardgame boxes and 2 extra sets of tokens lying around, let alone be paying for them.  Perhaps 2 player starter sets without all the extra stuff and 2 copies each of half the cards?  (Maybe packaged in some cool deck carrier type box if we are luck?)

 

 

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