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Super Star Destroyer discussion thread

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Personally i DONT want it in the game.

 

SSD is so huge compared to the next level down SD, tha to scale it would basically be your standard Apocalypse 40k game board size (about 8by8 lol). They'd have to break the scale system to bring it in.

I know the scales arent perfect as it is right now, but theyre pretty close. The SSD would be unplayable unless it was smaller than 6" long, and even then it wouldnt have any mobility without giving it unusual turning power.

While the model would be cool, i dont want it in the game because it would just be "wtf?" worthy on so many levels. Not to mention how the heck would Rebels deal with it? They took it down in the movies with their entire FLEET hitting it simo...kinda hard to pull off on a tabletop lol

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“What I said is true, from a certain point of view.” :P

 

I'll still be following this thread, but much like the others, I doubt I'll be swayed. It's all about perception, and thus no one's views are 'wrong', they're just different. Whether they're a self-identifying Warsey, a scale modeler, or that one jaggof who spoiled Empire Strikes Back by saying, “Can you believe Darth Vader was Luke's father all along?!” outside the theater, doesn't matter.

 

What we know of the SSD according to the original trilogy -and only the original trilogy- is that it is 'big', that it was one of dozens of command ships, that it was Vader's ship, that Admiral Ozzel then Admiral Piett commanded it, that it had forward batteries, and that it crashed into the Death Star after an A-wing ran into its bridge.

 

That's it.

 

Everything else is inferred, background info, added after the fact, merchandise quips (when is 'Executor' ever mentioned in the film?), and other stuff definitely not in the original trilogy itself. If other material or expanded information contributes to your perception, that's fine, if not, that's fine too.

 

The SSD could be an AWACS vs the ISD's F-18. Guess which one is more likely to get blown out of the sky when pitted against the other?  Not saying it is, just saying it's all about perception. :P

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For the scale of the SSD Executor I found this table top game. The scale of the SSD is slightly longer than the X-wing game's VT-49 decimator and the Viscount Star Defender is slightly smaller than the SSD but making the same scale as the other ships in the Armada game would be a little unrealistic for gamming. but making it mabye 2-3 times larger than the ISD should allow it to look fine and still be easy to use on a standard battle. Also you would need the Viscount as a Rebal counter to it. Although if they were to start adding the other dreadnough classes (preator 1/2, Bellator, and pssibly even the assertor) would be an interesting addition to the game and allow it to keep the whole capital ship V capital ship combat.51D6G85NEHL.jpg

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So, as much as i actually loath the SSD personally(I don't have the time or energy to go into a spiel), i'm thinking of commissioning one as a "playable-trophy" of sorts. I've been asked to run the Armada event at a local wargaming convention (Coastal Assault) in January, and I'd going to see the feasibility of commissioning an SSD.

Rules and the base aren't a major concern of mine, getting a decent semblance of scale for the model itself is. I'm thinking of 18"-24" long. That feels like a nice size to me, and hopefully wont break the bank either. Would you guys compete for that as a 1st place prize, or would you want something much bigger?

I will come up with rules for this, but thats much farther down the line, and in the end, it won't matter much once the model leaves my hands anyway.

Edited by Bipolar Potter

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So, as much as i actually loath the SSD personally(I don't have the time or energy to go into a spiel), i'm thinking of commissioning one as a "playable-trophy" of sorts. I've been asked to run the Armada event at a local wargaming convention (Coastal Assault) in January, and I'd going to see the feasibility of commissioning an SSD.

Rules and the base aren't a major concern of mine, getting a decent semblance of scale for the model itself is. I'm thinking of 18"-24" long. That feels like a nice size to me, and hopefully wont break the bank either. Would you guys compete for that as a 1st place prize, or would you want something much bigger?

I will come up with rules for this, but thats much farther down the line, and in the end, it won't matter much once the model leaves my hands anyway.

Mel already has the SSD on his to do list, I would check with him.

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For the scale of the SSD Executor I found this table top game. The scale of the SSD is slightly longer than the X-wing game's VT-49 decimator and the Viscount Star Defender is slightly smaller than the SSD but making the same scale as the other ships in the Armada game would be a little unrealistic for gamming. but making it mabye 2-3 times larger than the ISD should allow it to look fine and still be easy to use on a standard battle. Also you would need the Viscount as a Rebal counter to it. Although if they were to start adding the other dreadnough classes (preator 1/2, Bellator, and pssibly even the assertor) would be an interesting addition to the game and allow it to keep the whole capital ship V capital ship combat.51D6G85NEHL.jpg

 

I'd be wary of bringing THAT game up as an example of anything to copy ;)

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Personally i DONT want it in the game.

 

SSD is so huge compared to the next level down SD, tha to scale it would basically be your standard Apocalypse 40k game board size (about 8by8 lol). They'd have to break the scale system to bring it in.

I know the scales arent perfect as it is right now, but theyre pretty close. The SSD would be unplayable unless it was smaller than 6" long, and even then it wouldnt have any mobility without giving it unusual turning power.

While the model would be cool, i dont want it in the game because it would just be "wtf?" worthy on so many levels. Not to mention how the heck would Rebels deal with it? They took it down in the movies with their entire FLEET hitting it simo...kinda hard to pull off on a tabletop lol

By pretty close, the Victory class should be 6 CR 90s long and it's more like 2 1/2. So yeah, it's all a realitive scale, but it's not THAT close. With the ISD being 8 inches long, I could see the SSD being about 2 1/2 - 3 feet long (which would still be ridiculous) with special rules, epic mode etc. It would be the most ambitious "mini" FFG has ever made, and would probably cost $150-$200, but I still want it.

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There are 3 things holding back the SSD in Armada:

 

 

Size

 

Combat power

 

Rebel equivalent

 

Rebel equivalent: also a SSD, the Lusankya

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lusankya

 

 

 

Its only one ship. Its not like the New Republic was fielding a small fleet of them. Also, being a bit nit picky, but it isn't canon now. 

 

Since we're picking nits, .... lol..... i don't think even the Empire was running around with fleets of these things, I can only find in the legends The Executor, the Lusankya, the Night Hammer, the Terror, the Guardian, the Annihilator, the Reaper, the Aggressor, and the Brawl(renamed the Iron Fist) even if we include the decoy iron fist Zsinj blew up and the other one i remember that was blown up during construction, that's still 11 total, in the galaxy.

Edited by Tuck3r

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In the light of wave 2 and the ISD lets look at some facts now that we have some.

 

The ISD measures in at 8 inches / a touch under 21 cm long in length

It has a width of about 5 1/2 inches, or 14cm.

 

Most players sofar agree that for a SSD to work (i.e. people want to get it), it has to be somewhat ok looking in terms of scale with the rest of the game, otherwise its just silly.

 

So we could say, lets look at half the size of the ISD again as a bare minimum, thats 12 inches, or 41cm long. Which is "doable" since the X-Wing Corvette and Raider are about that length.

 

 

 

Looking at reference photos and diagrams, the SSD has a length/width ratio of about 4/1. This is due to its extreme dagger shape, as opposed to a wedge shape like the other SD's.

This means that our 12 inch long SSD model, would only be 3 inches wide (at widest point), which would mean that the "smaller" ISD would actually be almost twice as wide as the SSD. Which would just look rubbish.

 

Going the other way, in order to produce an SSD which would actually be "bigger" than an ISD model, would require it to be 6 inches wide, and 24 inches long - double the size of the X-Wing epic sized ships.

 

I dont belive this is viable for production as they would work out rediculously expensive for the few people who would buy them.

 

(Not to mention the other issue of breaking the game balance and having to come up with a completely new method of manuvering them and how firing mechanics would work).

 

isdssd.jpg

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There are 3 things holding back the SSD in Armada:

 

 

Size

 

Combat power

 

Rebel equivalent

 

Rebel equivalent: also a SSD, the Lusankya

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lusankya

 

 

 

Its only one ship. Its not like the New Republic was fielding a small fleet of them. Also, being a bit nit picky, but it isn't canon now. 

 

Since we're picking nits, .... lol..... i don't think even the Empire was running around with fleets of these things, I can only find in the legends The Executor, the Lusankya, the Night Hammer, the Terror, the Guardian, the Annihilator, the Reaper, the Aggressor, and the Brawl(renamed the Iron Fist) even if we include the decoy iron fist Zsinj blew up and the other one i remember that was blown up during construction, that's still 11 total, in the galaxy.

 

 

Not fleets, but there were quite a few.  In addition to the ones you mention, the Black Fleet had three (Intimidator, Aramadia, and one unnamed).  The Imperial Remnant had three after it re-consolidated, and Daala lost the Knight Hammer (Reaper, Dominion, and Megador).  Zsinj's decoy started out life as the nearly finished SSD Razor's Kiss, and Jerec's flagship was a related SSD design, the Vengeance.   There are several SSDs in Dark Empire, and several others mentioned in Post-RotJ works, but not named.  Even in RotJ, Han tells Luke "there are a lot of command ships".  Considering Luke is concerned that Vader is on the SSD orbiting Endor, it's logical to conclude that SSDs were relatively common, and used as Fleet command ships.  These ships were common enough that the New Republic eventually build the Viscount-Class Star Defenders so they'd have their own version/answer to the SSD.

 

On topic: not sure how an SSD would fit into Armada.  I would love to have one, since they're one of my favorite designs, but it would need to be a couple of feet long, minimum.

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So... Maybe they should do a SSD/Viscount 6x3 playmat. It could even have fire arcs and everything printed on it so that the big ships can take pot shots at the enemy fleet. Or it could be a challenge to take out one of the behemoths.

Or how about just releasing 3' tiles with each ship? They don't move during combat, (and so don't get defense tokens), but they have a ton of dice to pump out, a ton of hull, and a ton of shields. That would be fun.

Edited by admiralcrunch

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Well if the ISD is 8" long, then the SSD IMHO should be at least 24" long and 6" wide (If we stick to the 4/1 lenght/width ratio)

 

That would make it a 2 foot long monster, which is when deployed basically has anything on the opposite table side within firing range.

So is any rebel player out there, ready to get hammered in the first round?  :huh:

 

I think that most will agree that if made, the SSD should exclusively be used for Epic scale battles where the minimum table size should be 6x4 feet.

 

As for movement rules, the thing is so huge and covers so much of the table, with its four fire arcs, that in essence it don't really need to move at all.

 

just my two mynocks on the issue  :P

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As for movement rules, the thing is so huge and covers so much of the table, with its four fire arcs, that in essence it don't really need to move at all.

 

 

 

Which is why I would go "Why Bother?"   -  Armada is a game that revolves around Somewhat limited Maneuver Choices in order to bring the relatively short-range weapons to bear...

...  It just wouldn't be much fun to me to have something that, literally, only plays half a game.

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FFG could make Armada Epic, where the SSD is the same length as the new ISD.

 

The ISD's and likewise vessels is then made in much smaller version that fit on a small ship base.

 

Corvettes, Nebs etc..is then on a SQD size bases, and well Fighter/Bomber SQD now represent Fighter Wings.

 

Issue solved...right???  :unsure:

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FFG could make Armada Epic, where the SSD is the same length as the new ISD.

 

The ISD's and likewise vessels is then made in much smaller version that fit on a small ship base.

 

Corvettes, Nebs etc..is then on a SQD size bases, and well Fighter/Bomber SQD now represent Fighter Wings.

 

Issue solved...right???  :unsure:

 

 

If I wanted to play a whole new game wholly incompatible with the Original, yes.

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