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Eagle128

Super Star Destroyer discussion thread

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Look, I understand the complaints about the whole SSD issue, but they just are simply not relevant enough to prevent FFG from creating one for SW Armada, at least they are not likely to be relevant enough.

They wont make an Armada SSD because they wouldn't make an ISD for X-Wing? Not a great argument. Not only would an ISD in X-Wing have to be 10' long to be realistic scale beside an X-Wing fighter, if you scaled it down, to a size workable on even a large game table, your still dealing with a ship that's probably not going to be even twice as long as the Tantive IV model which is one of the smallest war ships going in star wars. So even with a rather huge 20" ISD in X-Wing, not only would the fighters look bizarrely large, but the large ship models like the Tantive would appear to be more than half the size of an ISD. I think at the X-Wing scale, with such well visually well defined models, you couldn't get away with an SSD that wasn't at least 3 times the size of a Tantive, which would still be too small, but at least would give some wow factor to the size difference. But then your dealing with a ship over 3 feet long, which is just a bit too much. I think you can go 2 feet, possibly, perhaps a touch more in exceptional circumstances, but over 3 feet is an ISD that would pretty much swamp smaller game tables to the exclusion of just about anything else, and on larger tables they couldn't be anything more then a largely stationary item. The cost would probably exceed $250-$300.

They can concoct a SSD for Armada 3 times the size of a ISD and get away with it. Its feasible.

The issue is, with any of these games, there has to be a certain suspension of reality. And that may easily include letting go of any note of perfection about scale or precisely meting out game stats to scale perfection for each of these models 'already made up and imaginary' sizes and abilities. The SSD is a wonderful design, and would be an exciting and spectacular piece on the gaming table. It would attract players, and even just some collectors.

I think the final factor simply is; that its almost like a ripe grape on the vine waiting for FFG to pick, and its got to be very hard to resist when there are bound to be at least some easy profits buy selling a large model of the SSD when such models of any kind, except some very small scale miniatures, are already so hard to find..

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NOOOOO!!! KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!

This thread no longer deserves to live...

It will never die. I have come to accept our resident zombie.

They could at least make a secondary thread or something that isn't 25 pages long...
We really really do not need another thread or to even have this one continue. There has been no word whatsoever and until there is something to add everything has been said.

And nobody is going to rage quit. If the model looks stupid (too small compared to the other capitals) and the rules are not good we will just not play epic. (Now it still may end up on one of my shelves.)

Edited by Beatty

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What would an oversized capital like the super accomplish in terms of gameplay?

 

Take up a lot of space?

 

It would look good on the shelf, but on the tabletop?

 

Dunno

I already love Imperial Star Destroyers... a huge multi-segment ship with tremendous hull resiliency and large firepower out the front arcs would be incredible to play with. And it would be the natural fit for Vader to sit on.

 

Anything larger is ridiculous, but having a star dreadnought for my fleet would be great. Assuming I could afford one :\

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What would an oversized capital like the super accomplish in terms of gameplay?

 

Take up a lot of space?

 

It would look good on the shelf, but on the tabletop?

 

Dunno

I already love Imperial Star Destroyers... a huge multi-segment ship with tremendous hull resiliency and large firepower out the front arcs would be incredible to play with. And it would be the natural fit for Vader to sit on.

 

Anything larger is ridiculous, but having a star dreadnought for my fleet would be great. Assuming I could afford one :\

 

 

 

The problem you have is the limited deployment area.  If its too big, your Front Arc will have to be facing Sideways some mark of degrees, showing that wonderfully long broadside to the oncoming enemy.

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I don't think that will be as much of a problem. Nearly all games have large areas of the map where no ships go, and no combat happens. Sticking a Super Star destroyer out of a relatively unused corner of the map and have it charge in seems like it won't be a problem.

 

And unlike X-Wing, collisions don't automatically kill ships here. Worst case I think an SSD might demolish small bases, or just deal two damage cards on collisions instead of 1.

Edited by Norsehound

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Hello I am new here :)

 

When I was younger and played with my Star-Wars micro-machine toys, I would always consider the horrible scale of everything to just be relative to the distance between objects.

 

So couldn't they make a smaller SSD on a base with a lower flight stand so it sits under the hight of the other ships and fighters to give the impression it is further away from them below the main battle?

 

How about a papercraft one? :P

 

In all honesty I don't think an SSD is practical at all to play with, try make an SSD shape with a bunch of tables and chuck enough grey cloth over it and have a game on top of it or around it... :blink: if it still seems like a good idea after that then okay keep asking for one :lol:

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Understand Beatty, you keep saying over and over again how the Executor would look silly in the game at something a little over 20", but that's you.

 

Im hating to reveal a lot about my age, but, I stood in a line about 200 people deep at a movie theatre the first day Return of The Jedi was released and have been an avid Star Wars fan, follower, collector and eventually gamer, since the first week A New Hope was released.  I do not think a 20+" Executor would look silly in Armada.  It obviously wouldn't be right, but getting it into the game is practically critical in my mind.  And probably in the minds of many.

 

If you want you can outlaw it in your games.

 

The excuses for why it cant be in the game, at the end of the day are excuses.  despite my avid interest in Star Wars, I accept easily the entire thing is a fantasy, an interesting one to be sure, but a fantasy none the less.  You can make the Executor part of the game.  Fantasies are easily bent and manipulated when necessary.  The idea that you cant get the Executor into the game because it would look silly is such a terribly objective thing is an instant none consideration.

 

Disney and movie studios before it have made literal BILLIONS off of the super heros in the Marvel franchise and any Marvel comic book fan can tell you how loosely they have followed "cannon" in those movies.  Even when depicting classic and well known stories that have been around for decades.  And Stan Lee will literally appear in most of those movies that are sometimes almost abnormally off base to the original story, and he was part of the original incarnation of the "cannon" generated in the original comics.

 

Of course you can got the Executor into the game.  And it would have to provide some fairly decent profit for FFG.  Look around.  How hard is it to find a good large model of an Executor anywhere??  Its a rarity in the world.  It would be a litteral collectors item right out of the box for any Star Wars fan with the money to purchase one.

 

Every reason I see why FFG shouldn't put one in the game keeps coming back to "it would have to be way too big or it would look silly".

 

That is entirely a subjective opinion, which I can respect for what it is, but none the less, its an entirely subjective opinion, and thus there is not a single thing in reality that would necessitate it being too big, and there is practically a guarantee that there are plenty enough that want the Executor that FFG could make some money off of it, so...

 

Well, figure it out.  I don't see how its actually possible they wont make an Executor, unless they do decide to make another dreadnaught not quite so gargantuan in its place.  And much like you, I think if they did that the Bellator would be the best choice.  I too think it would make an absolutely fantastic model.  One of my favorites as well.  But there is no solid across the board non-starter of a reason why the Executor could not, or will not be part of the game.

 

Just my opinion of course! ;)

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26 pages in, and nothing new. Nobodies opinion is going to change on this.

Either FFG will do it, or they won't. If they do, people will either buy it or they won't. There will be a mix of both types of people.

I really don't see there's anything else to add to this any longer. I'm hereby exiling myself from this thread forever.

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I think it's coming. I also have deep worries about the idea.

 

For it to be at a scale that's remotely reminiscent of the movies, it would have to be a fair bit larger than the Tantive for X-Wing. That means that the model will be significantly longer than the range template. Meaning we'll have the slightly ridiculous situation that weapons at the rear wouldn't reach to the front of the ship. (Which, in terms of gameplay, means that the SSD would be a broadside vessel, unlike the ISD and VSD). 

 

Again, I think  it's happening anyway regardless. But my preference would be a Raider-like custom job, a mini-SSD. Call it a Battlecruiser or an Executor prototype or something. As long as the bridge tower is the same size as the ISD's, as long as it's that blue color, and as long as there's a long dagger shape and a cityscape on the top, I think it would be acceptable.

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Na, you make it both a front arc monster, and a broadside monster. While the broadsides could be broken into different individual hull zones, the front arc could just loose dice as the hull sections are taken out. All 15 or so dice of the front arc could be measured from the same forward dot. Side arcs could have one point per section.

Look silly or not, I would buy one... Maybe two. :D

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26 pages in, and nothing new. Nobodies opinion is going to change on this.

Either FFG will do it, or they won't. If they do, people will either buy it or they won't. There will be a mix of both types of people.

I really don't see there's anything else to add to this any longer. I'm hereby exiling myself from this thread forever.

 

An excellent idea, Extropia.  I shall follow you into Tarkin Thread Exile.  For the sake of everyone's sanity, I urge all of you to do the same.  Let us never speak of it again ;-)

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Lemme throw some kerosene on the fire....

 

I was witness/participant in the GenCon tournament Special Star Wars space battle event some 10 or so years ago where a 50x50 (that's feet folks) area was set up with a TO SCALE Fleet engagement around a 6' long ISD. It was (marginally) mobile on the field, and the assorted battlegroup craft were every thing from MicroMachine scale Starfighters (in 4-fighter wings on 5' pedestal sticks, with 3D elevation adjustment) to Blockade runners, MC80s, Dreadnaughts and others.

 

It was awesome. It was epic, and it was incredibly niche. Good and playable at a Convention special tournament is not playable on the kitchen table. That will be the driving force behind their scale/wave discussions and release of rules for SSD in any flavor of the FFG fighting ships games.

 

I can get behind the idea that in an Armada or lower scale game the SSD is represented by a Terrain feature, or is the actual Playmat the battle rages around.

 

I can get behind the idea of an Armada SSD at 16" or so (LOG sliding scale) and just expect that scale of play to be on Gaming Hall tables, not kitchen tables. There "it fits".

 

I can get behind a super-capital ship scale combat where 1" ISDs are attached in squadron fashion to cluster bases rallying around a 10" Executor class SSD, with full wings of 72 fighters, or full squadrons of 12 fighters being reduced to a token count or an area hazard like the Debris field. 

Edited by FULONGAMER

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Yes Clonejedi I have. So has every pro-Executor poster on this forum repeated time and time again the exact same argument. Also I stood in line at Star Wars in the summer of 77, and have followed Star Wars since so age and love for the Star Wars universe does not play a factor in someone's for or against in this discussion at all.

No one has changed their mind and will not because there is nothing that can be said to sway either side. Both sides have good arguments but neither side will budge. So my Stance (and it is my opinion that is shared by a number of people.) is that an Epic Ship for each side would be cool as hell, but the Executor is Too Large to look like it fits in the game. (That and its firepower dwarfs that of an ISD which we have seen is nuts. But that's only if FFG follows the Canon which was set by OT.)

Honestly this thread has become absolutely pointless now. Can the subject just die?

Edited by Beatty

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Yes, let your hate flow through you. Your hate has elevated you to the level of the Data/Spock arguments!

 

 

Honestly this thread has become absolutely pointless now. Can the subject just die?

 

Let go of your anger -- let go of your hate.  I can feel the good in you.

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Yes, let your hate flow through you. Your hate has elevated you to the level of the Data/Spock arguments!

 

 

Honestly this thread has become absolutely pointless now. Can the subject just die?

 

Let go of your anger -- let go of your hate.  I can feel the good in you.

Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-Of-The-Jedi-It is too late for me son.

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As the starter of this thread back in March, I feel like I created a monster. Why won't this thread just die?!

(Gets out flamethrower)

I will kill it! I will kill it with fire!

(I don't have any good Star Wars comeback lines. Can someone please throw me a line?)

 

Because we obviously want it and hope they'll add the xl or epic level ship to our tables.  We all hope FFG will say yes, we will take your money to provide you with this legendary beast of a scenario.  

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As the starter of this thread back in March, I feel like I created a monster. Why won't this thread just die?!

(Gets out flamethrower)

I will kill it! I will kill it with fire!

(I don't have any good Star Wars comeback lines. Can someone please throw me a line?)

"Dont make me destroy you."

-Lord vader

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