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Super Star Destroyer discussion thread

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Well the CR90 is 13", and the ISD will be about 6". So what is the logical length if we keep in mind that 18" is the halfway mark and 13" is about 17% of scale to the ISD. (The Command Bridge Super Structure would be smaller than the VSD shield projectors on top of the Command Structure.

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Now that's a good question, Beatty.

 

We're dealing with a supership, so it's going to be difficult to make it look authentic (I never said it wouldn't. Because of its ridicuous length, getting that bridge up to scale I think is going to be the hardest part. Then again, we also have to wonder about how stable a super thin model is going to be as well. Something like the Secutor is going to have the same problem as it doesn't even have a notable dorsal ridge to support the weight. Its profile might make it easier to produce as a model plastic-wise, but it's still going to be irritating from a technical standpoint. I'm outright watching to see if Mel can manage it, and then see if he has any insight into such a weird sized ship.)

 

Maybe 26”? I'd have to figure out some kind of mock up in photoshop to see where the bridge is at least approaching 1/2 the VSD's size (I'm not saying it's a magic number, I'm just trying to find some dimensions.). I'd also add in the stipulation that the SSD should be wider than the ISD, which means at least 1.5-2X its length.

 

The VSD is already 5”, the ISD is at least 7” and I thought I saw some measurements reliably into the 9”, which is making this harder. Any indication of the X-wing Raider's size?

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I believe the Raider going to measure in around 15".

But yes. When you look at the shape and dimensions it becomes a hard task to work out. That's why I am worried because of the command structure was this tiny lump it would be obviously too small.

So to resolve the problem I would like to see another SSD instead. And some of them are fantastic looking.

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With a 'supersized' ship, there's basically two problems: it has to be recognizable, and it has to be technically robust enough to work on the table.

 

I like the Executor because it's 'the' SSD. It looks neat, it's got a lot of greebles and panelling that makes it distinct. The Secutor looks like it would be tough as it's flat with no support structure so a lot would have to be internal. Not only that, it does have a lot of similarities to the Clone Wars (FFG doesn't seem to like that). Then we have the Bellator,which is still my favourite, but it's 8,000m and runs into the 'command tower' issue to some degree as well (the tower never has to be the same size, it only has to look like it is). It's also big and hefty, meaning it's more pricy to produce and more difficult.

 

Now with the new Episode VII, we -could- see something that would solve all our problems, but the new SD class (from its admittedly poor pictures), has the look somewhere between an ISD and a Bellator.

 

More or less, on a lark, how big is the scaled bridge of an SSD to its original 8,000m counterpart I wonder.  I'll have to load up photoshop and have a look when I get a bit of free time.  Anyway, should we list what ships would fit into the 'dreadnaught' category and start from there as to what might be more workable? I'm not against other SSD's at all, but I entirely get why people want and expect the Executor. And from a gameplay standards, it's still totally workable (say, two interjoined large scale bases with a slight gap, like the Epic scale ships from X-wing).

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The Bellator is my favorite too. And yes there will be a drastic difference in scale but at least they are starting out at half the size of the Executor. Then again they could be working with Lucus Film on a SSD we haven't seen yet too.

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The Bellator is my favorite too. And yes there will be a drastic difference in scale but at least they are starting out at half the size of the Executor. Then again they could be working with Lucus Film on a SSD we haven't seen yet too.

Alliance style SSD and hopefully an Imperial. . . It would be amazing! I would play Epic Games all the time!

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Why can't anyone let the Executor go?

 

Because no ship this scale in Star Wars is as recognized or as well-known as the Executor. With CR-90s performing well enough in X-Wing everyone is considering what an Armada analogue could be like. The Executor is the popular, easy answer for that kind of similar jump in scale.

 

Those who know of Fractalsponge's work (or even have any exposure to the EU) can offer up a dozen different starships that won't be as... offensive? to scale sensibilities, but that still doesn't change the fact that the Executor is more popular, and indisputably in the canon.

 

I still can't imagine the game being pitched without taking to consideration the minimum and maximum of what is capable with the engine. When they set out to do this they must have thought of where the Executor (and every canon ship) would stand in relation to one another. In fact I think the reason we have VSDs and GSDs for the Empire to start with is because the Imperial was already judged to be the heaviest conventional ship in the game. Using smaller ships means play is a better balanced than the juggernaut repeatedly swarmed by corvettes and frigates. Also, feedback from the VSD's performance means the ISD can be designed as an improvement.

Edited by Norsehound

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The bonus is that the Executor is Cannon. Which since all ships currently are, it would make sense to see it eventually.

what do you mean?

Aren't the gladiator the Assault frigate mk2, and even the vsd non cannon? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by all ships are cannon

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Pretty sure the VSD was in the latest Tarkin books which makes them Canon. I think only the Assault Frigate Mark II is the only non Canon ship, but since this is all approved by Disney maybe the Empire at War ships are now canon. . .

Huh. . . I did not know that my 25th birthday is the divide between Legends and current canon.

Edited by Lyraeus

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Cartoon Canonicity covers only The Clone Wars and the newest Rebels series. Star Wars: Droids is kind of awkward in continuity since Droids was supposed to give 3PO and R2 some history before A New Hope. Attack of the Clones and onwards kind of covers this, implying that both droids remained in the service of Alderaan. Legends got away with this by having the droids lost between III and IV, but Rebels kind of puts the kebosh on this as well. It gets convoluted.

 

That said I wouldn't be surprised if some source in the future designates the Gladiators as existing in-universe. The only significant omission so far is Thrawn... I haven't seen any mention of him in any of the new continuity, and he's pretty popular and uncontroversial of a figure to be absent.

 

We're diverting a little from the topic though... Super Star Destroyers. Honesty I think the only impediment to them is that the Rebels don't have any obvious counterparts to balance against them. There's that Star Defender from the other minis starter kit, but that's the only place I have seen it. On the other hand how long did the Rebels have the CR-90 to terrorize Imperial X-Wing players with? Maybe FFG would need to make a super ship of their own to combat a future SSD.

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Executor yes*, by the movie's screening and custom produced models that's the number given.

 

The point is that others think the fighters look out of whack and want a 1:7,000 consistent scale too, thus they go to Shapeways. I'm saying that's the margin that has already been done to bring the smallest ships in line with the 'regular' small-large base ships, in order to 'looks right' to the FFG team. By the same margin of scale, the minimum size for the Executor is 253mm, or just under 10”.

 

I'm not saying I want that number, I'm just saying that if they did produce a 253mm Executor, it wouldn't be any more out of scale than a snubfighter is. After all, both have their own bases and scales to make them workable in a standard game of Armada: so there isn't much difference between its 'big' scale compared to the squadrons small scale. Aside from our own personal preference, there's no reason why an SSD can't be done as something that extreme already has been done.

 

*If we're going by the assumption that Vader was on the Executor in Empire Strikes back in every scene in which an SSD was shown. That would be most reasonable, but naturally not the only explanation.

 

Post Scriptum: Frankly I'd be totally fine with it just being called a 'Super Star Destroyer' as well, and leaving Executor out of the title.  But they didn't do that with Home One, which was always odd to me (they could have just called it an MC80 and left Home One out of it completely).  Now, that said, if it was just an SSD and Executor was a title (just like Home One) then I'd be fine with that too. In the end, it doesn't matter to me too much... although I do like the SSD's shape and 'city-like spine' more than the Secutor class or its likes.

Home one is the ships class

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Yeah, you're right. So is the Executor of course.

 

It still confuses me, given that Home One is also in the position of being nothing more than a subclass (It's an MC80). So that would make it a MC80 'Home One' and we still don't know the sub-designation of that (by all indications there isn't any, so we'll have to see how FFG tackles it). It would be like we'd have to have an M1A1 mk.2, it's not something we see.

 

Anyhow, I'm still pretty convinced on the 13.5km measurement, but it's true, we're talking about something that's only 2/3rds the size at modest, 1/2 the size at large.... or the same size at the Executor's smallest official measurement.

 

I wouldn't be particularly surprised if we did see a new SSD or a 'galaxy gun' style weapon over another battlestation. So, a list of SSD type ships in the Galactic Civil War era (excluding Clone Wars types).

 

Assertor-class: 15km

  • Pro: it's pretty prototypical and slightly smaller than the larger sized Executor estimates.

  • Con: it's not much smaller, it's got the same command tower problem it not worse as there's little in the way to obscure it (and at a reasonable scale, the tower might not even show up), and it's far-far thicker than the Executor.

Bellator-class:7.2km,

  • Pro: It's unique looking and might actually be possible.

  • Con: It wouldn't be any smaller than the Raider in physical size, but might have to be longer. That's a lot of material. That said, it's no Executor in shape, and while I love its profile, I'm not sure how well the humpback would be received.

Eclipse-class: 17.5km

  • Pro: it's big given its shape, but its bridge isn't actually superimposed from an ISD. It could be any size and work perfectly well.

  • Con: It's got really low detail and it's a sort of strange shape that looks more at home in Firestorm Armada, but it could still work (might be one of the best candidates)

Executor-class: 8-19km.

  • Pro: it's in the movies and thus recognizable and iconic, there's not much competition out there, and its got at least decent structuring from what I saw when it comes to plastic tooling. There's also a prototype confirmed at 12km.

  • Con: the bridge size, people's preconception on how big it should be (whether it's 16” or 36”, there's going to be complaints), unsure how much detail they can put in to the 'city-spine' and still make it look reasonably detailed.

Mandator-class: >8 Km

  • Pro: no one's ever seen it depicted.

  • Con: no one's ever seen it depicted AND it's part of a private fleet from the late Clone War era.

Praetor II-class: 4.4-8km

  • Pro: workable enough size. There's no real 'bridge' or prominant features to scale.

  • Con: There's no prominent features at all, really. It certainly doesn't look like an SSD or anything particularly special. Its got a lot of flat surfaces and some massive looking subwoofers at the back of the 'tower' spine.

Sovereign-class: ?km small scale version of the Eclipse.

  • Pro: no one's seen it, it's described as being smaller and reasonable to mass-produce.

  • Con: only 4 built compared to the 'dozens of command ships' that describe Executor-like vessels, and all built by a splinter faction, Warlord Zsinj in the EU.

Vengeance-class: 19km

  • Pro: ... well, you can see the bridge I guess.

  • Con: Executor but more spindly which makes it harder to scale, only 3 built, tiny slender wings,

 

There are other classes, but then fall into the 'battlecruiser' territory between 2-8km long. We can always talk about those but they're not really SSD-like.

Edited by Vykes

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They killed any chance of an SSD by not honouring what HOME ONE should be and instead made her a vanilla MC80

Had they made her the proper 3.4km flagship version that old girl should be, there would have been a chance to make an opposing SSD

Home One being 3.4km is just silly. It wasn't anywhere near that big (despite some sources). Home One just suffered from the same revisionist enlargement the SSD did. The ship is the right size in Armada.

Just silly? From the wookipedia entry the 3 most cannonical sources, the ROTJ script, direct scaling and novalisation all state it is the largest mc flagship, at the 2.5-3.4km range. Nowhere in the cannon reset does it mention the west end games as cannon.

"Opposing SSD"?

Not much opposition for the SSD. It's 5 times the size, a lot more than 5 times the firepower, and would go through Home One like it wasn't even there.

I really don't see how Home Ones size makes any difference to this.

Home One isn't a direct counterpart to an SSD, But at twice the length of an ISD, she would be dipping her toes into the EPIC scale that a SSD would be planting both feet in ( and lets face it, up to her neck) and she would be the only cannon rebel ship to allow that. No other rebel ship at that scale has had screen time

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The Wookipedia entry lists Home One as 1300 meters. I'm pretty sure the model makers scaled it that way too. Same way the model makers scaled Executor to 8.5 times the length of an ISD.

 

A 3km Home One just seems over sized compared to everything else in the feet. It stands out as wrong.

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The Wookipedia entry lists Home One as 1300 meters. I'm pretty sure the model makers scaled it that way too. Same way the model makers scaled Executor to 8.5 times the length of an ISD.

 

A 3km Home One just seems over sized compared to everything else in the feet. It stands out as wrong.

The Executor is a Super class Star Destroyer. Many people get that confused by just calling it an SSD, but really the Super is the class name. The other HUGE star destroyers are just that, they are not SSD's but just SD's.

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