Eagle128

Super Star Destroyer discussion thread

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Scale is already meaningless is it not? The ISD & the rebel blockade runner have shown that already.

If the SSD can't work without looking insane, I favour FFG designing a new XL base ship for the imperials, like they did with the raider. Some new fresh designs might actually be a good thing.

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The only thing I see as "sized out", are the Mega class star destroyer, and the Death Star I & II. With the sliding scale, I see no reason the SSD cannot or should not be included in an epic scale Armada format. 

If epic scale X-WING takes place on a 3' x 6' play area with the largest epic ships around 13" long, and are by no means unplayable. With an epic Armada play area of 6' x 9', it could easily support a model over 24" in length, more if it has a slower speed.

The models for a Resurgent or a Raddus, would not be double the length of an ISD. Armada has a sliding scale. At the most they will top the ISD by about 2" (or 5cm). The SSD would need be no larger than the ISD, than the ISD is compared to the CR90, approximately 28". Will that be pushing the top end of playability? Most likely yes, but it is still possible to make it work. Even at over 2', with a $150.00-$200.00 price tag, the sales for an Epic scale SSD would surpass any individual epic scale X-WING ship in units sold within 2-3 years. FFG will get sales beyond Armada for a SSD model, suitable for display, with a price tag below $400.00. 

Not making it leaves too much money on the table.

It is coming. 

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Cynan, the math has been done. It is 8 feet if it is scaled linearly from the ISD, or 6 feet if put onto the logarithmic scale of all the rest of the ships. "24 inches" is beyond underselling the problem. If you want a ship in that range, there is the Mandator. Even that would be a bit too small.

Edited by Knightcrawler
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Guys, if FFG didn't think they could fit the Executor into the upper reaches of Armada's scale, then they would have designed the entire game at a smaller scale from the very beginning, sizing out the GR-75 instead.

The only way they don't release it is if Armada is discontinued within the next few waves. It's one of top selling miniature games, so that is quite unlikely.

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The CR-90 was the first X wing ship that wasn't released at true scale, right? The SSD might be the first Armada ship to be released without true proportions (slightly exaggerated width). The WotC Star Wars game did this (although they took it way too far IMHO, but their models looked terrible anyway).

You never know.

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2 hours ago, ninclouse2000 said:

I'll be totally happy with an ssd that is just a bit smaller than the raider in x-wing.

What about an ssd that is just a bit larger than an x-wing in armada?

 

(It's just reeeeeaaally far away.)

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3 hours ago, Tayloraj100 said:

What about an ssd that is just a bit larger than an x-wing in armada?

 

(It's just reeeeeaaally far away.)

Hrm...I don't get it...

If I could, I would insert a chin-scratching emoji in here with a "Wah, wah, wah, waaaaaaah....." sound in here.

:D

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16 hours ago, bleezy said:

The CR-90 was the first X wing ship that wasn't released at true scale, right? The SSD might be the first Armada ship to be released without true proportions (slightly exaggerated width). The WotC Star Wars game did this (although they took it way too far IMHO, but their models looked terrible anyway).

You never know.

There is a difference between being 20% or 30% out of scale, and being 300% or 400% out of scale.

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52 minutes ago, Knightcrawler said:

There is a difference between being 20% or 30% out of scale, and being 300% or 400% out of scale.

Not to me there isn't.  The ssd just needs to be about double the size of an isd for me to be super happy.  They also will want to keep it under $100 so we should expect it to be around twice the size of an isd when it releases in the next wave.

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1 hour ago, Knightcrawler said:

There is a difference between being 20% or 30% out of scale, and being 300% or 400% out of scale.

Can't really argue with the maths. However given the choice between having an iconIc Star Wars ship or not, I'll take the inconsistency.

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18 hours ago, bleezy said:

Guys, if FFG didn't think they could fit the Executor into the upper reaches of Armada's scale, then they would have designed the entire game at a smaller scale from the very beginning, sizing out the GR-75 instead.

The only way they don't release it is if Armada is discontinued within the next few waves. It's one of top selling miniature games, so that is quite unlikely.

That's not true.  That's like saying if they didn't think they could fit an ISD into X-Wing they never would have made X-Wing in that scale.  It's a BS argument.  They released X-Wing at that scale because it worked at that scale and they never intended to include ISDs because they are just too big.

The same could be said for Armada, FFG may never intend to include the super large ships.  We simply don't know.  I personally have no desire for an SSD.  It would serve no real purpose.  They'd likely stick some valuable cards behind it to force sales.  It wouldn't be used for tournaments.  It would need special rules to play the **** thing.  It would be a casual only piece that wouldn't really benefit the game.  You can home rule yourself something and call it a day without negatively affecting the rest of the game.

Epic ships were not a great thing for X-Wing, and I doubt they would be for Armada.

None of that is saying that FFG won't do it, just that it's not mandatory.

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On 9/21/2017 at 9:49 AM, kmanweiss said:

That's not true.  That's like saying if they didn't think they could fit an ISD into X-Wing they never would have made X-Wing in that scale.  It's a BS argument.  They released X-Wing at that scale because it worked at that scale and they never intended to include ISDs because they are just too big.

 

That argument really doesn't make much sense, given X-Wing is a game about starfighter combat - an ISD would never make sense in that scale, regardless of size.  Sure, multiple entire squadrons of fighters can meaningfully engage an ISD - but the game already cannot scale that high (even in Epic).

The Executor, however, is a capital ship just like the other Star Destroyers, and designed to engage in ship-to-ship combat (indeed, it's specifically a 'command ship' intended to lead such battles).  It'd be rather surprising to not have it show up at all in Armada.

(And, I mean seriously - the shield dials on the ship bases already go up to '6'.  For a game whose core set had the most powerful shield a '3', the same set having double that value as the possible maximum seems to speak pretty clearly about what FFG had in mind for future scaling.)

Edited by xanderf

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There is a rather simple solution. Just don't base it on the new Canon 19000 m length, and base their model instead on the original 8000 m length. You can still find pictures of the 8000 m SSD beside ISDs, it looks plenty intimidating, yet far more playable. I really don't care if it is true to Canon, I want it to be playable. 

8000 m was plenty believable 20 years ago. Nobody questioned it until LFL, decided to retcon the size to make it more impressive. I never liked the shrinking Home One and the growing SSD retcons anyway!

I think the sweet spot for size makes it wider than the ISD, and 2 1/2-3 times the length of the ISD. Use a bridge tower about the same size as the VSD. Either a new Epic base, or two large bases, with movement using the rear base, and you have a playable model that can fit in the game, and still looks good next to the other Armada ships. 

It is still coming, and it will be amazing! Huge! You won't even believe it! And we will make the Rebels pay for it. (Just to get the upgrades.) ;)

 

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While I myself do hope we see the eventual release of the SSD in Armada, I have decided I've edged closer to the "why" category. I mean, whatever else Armada may be, it's still a game of (in part) strategy. Now granted, I may be missing something, but what possible strategy could you employ with the SSD other than "Fire everything!" The point cost would/should be so massive that it would be this one ship against an entire fleet. Sure, the Alliance player would get to flank, and try different things, but the SSD would pretty much just sit there and hammer away. :(
I'm still a fan of the idea of the SSD in Armada, and do hope it comes along. I just hope it brings something with it when it does other than being a brick. 

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6 hours ago, Knightcrawler said:

There is a difference between being 20% or 30% out of scale, and being 300% or 400% out of scale.

So you are saying that you can not stand the CR90?

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28 minutes ago, CDAT said:

So you are saying that you can not stand the CR90?

For me, its the wrong way.

 

A CR90 is obviously over powered compared to where it should be.

An SSD would have to be drastically under sized and under-powered to fit into the armada sense, at which point, I question why bothering.

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25 minutes ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

I may be in the minority, but I think the smaller ships like the CR90 should have been flotillas. Their power would be better represented coming from 2 ships instead of one. 

I like the idea, but i think its a little too late for that unfortunately. I dont see how it could be done without tottally messing up the small medium ship dynamic. Not there is a big small/medium dynamic, not that many medium ships.

On the topic of  a SSD scale and fire power, make it a CGNU graduate. Price it out of 400 pts games, and make it so it can only be brought in large fleet engagements (as it should be). I dont think a SSD could or should work in 400 pts without feeling either waaaay too powerfull, or waaaaaay too weak. If 400 pts is the 'standard' size of an engagement in SW, in no way or shape should a SSD show up. I mean in ESB it had 3 or 4 on screen ISD escorts, right there blows all your points.

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Why can't we just get a Finalizer and Raddus that are the size of the CR90 and Raider from X-wing?  Then the sliding scale Armada uses doesn't even have to be that bad, as they would look really good that size.

 

Arguing for the SSD in Armada always seems (to me) as goofy as if there were huge threads adamantly demanding an official Nebulon-B and Arquittens for X-Wing.

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while there were only 13 SSD's According to (new ) cannon I would like one so that I can play out The battles of Hoth and Endor from start to finish. with the pending release of SW: Legion all I need is an SSD. while I would prefer an "Official" one I guess I should start stashing money for one from Mel.

 

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i really dont care how big to scale they make the ship.

I just want a Super Star Destroyer on the playmat!

i think twice the size of the ISD model would be fine.

I think a good idea would be that when any ship or squadron attack the SSD, all attacks are 1/2 strength rounded up to make up for the size of the ship.

Therefore, if you roll 8 dice and score 7 hits, its automatically reduced to 4 hits, BEFORE any defense tokens are used. 

I think that idea will work so you can put any size model on the playmat, just change the scale of the ship on the ship cards.

If i was to put together an SSD ship card i think it could like this:

Super Star Destroyer Executor-Class

Hull:20  A/S: 3

Command: 4 dials  Squadron:6  Engineering: 6

Two Contains, Two Braces and Two Redirects, no evades for OBVIOUS reasons

Speed: 1 with 1 click, cause the ship is going to fly like a BATHTUB

Shields: 6 all around because thats the highest the shield dials can go so you might as well have a ship that can use the full dial since there is none yet.

Attack Dice:  12 Front, 10 Sides, 8 Rear

Upgrades Galore

I think this card could be a design idea.

It could be the first of the new Extra-Large class of ships, which could include other future releases like the Viscount-Star Defender for the Rebels or even the Eclipse class-SSD for Empire among other ideas.

Could lower or raise the hull values, attack dice, shields, damage scale when attacked?

Im still a noob at this game, what do you experts think?

Put a Decent size model on the playmat and just scale the ship card and the attacks that the SSD can make and receive?

 

Edited by rjl51869

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14 hours ago, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

I may be in the minority, but I think the smaller ships like the CR90 should have been flotillas. Their power would be better represented coming from 2 ships instead of one. 

Wait what if we made them a medium base sized flotilla?!?! I think that could work.

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On 20.3.2015 at 5:00 AM, Beatty said:

The Bulward was 2,500 m the Executor SSD was 19,000 m. Not the same class of ship. (Also it looks like a ship Lord Helmet would fly, like it really looks like a helmet.)

Just for refference an ISD I&II are 1,600m long. Not that impressive.

**** the 19,000m 
Just use the 8,000m number for standard super star destroyers and go with that, Executer is just a title anyway, suddenly it becomes much more feasible in the game. Allowing for a 1 ship list in a 400 point game with some spare squadrons on top.   Besides Armada is already super inconsistant, MC80 are as well in canon already super inconstant, iirc the home one in the actual movie is over 3km long, but we get instead a MC80 with a home one title instead of the actual movie size of the Home One ship. 

And with 8,000m and not an absolute to same scale model, logarithm scale for example, you should be able to get it small enough easily while still being an impressive ship. 

Edited by SEApocalypse
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