Why aren't YOU flying "Dark Curse"?

[SpikeSpiegel 2,077]

No, seriously, why aren't people flying him? His ability is probably the best defensive ability in the game (any MathWing to help me on that claim?) and there are some important abilities that he cockblocks:

Focus tokens

Target locks

Predator

Lone Wolf

Han's ability

New Boba's ability

I'd like to emphasize more on the focus and TL's, he's essentially making your opponents' red dice worse by essentially giving them 4 blank sides (except for Keyan Farlander, who uses stress) and removes the even better consistency of rerolling dice.

Oh, your Phantom rolled four focus results? **** you! Fat Han without gunner rolled one hit? Looks like you didn't make the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, buddy. Slap a Stealth Device on him and he's even harder to kill. Hell, he's in the mid-PS range shooting at BBBBZ/Han's Z's/Howl Swarm before they get to shoot back with crappy dice and at the same time at Dual IGs with also crappy dice.

Yes, he's 16 points, but isn't the extra four points from your filler-Academy Pilot worth the upgrade? PS6 with a kickass ability? Hell yeah I'll fly him any day over Backstabber or Mauler Mithel!

Here's a list I plan on running him in:

Rexler Brath (37)

Lone Wolf (2)

HLC (7)

Stealth Device (3)

(49)

Soontir Fel (27)

Push (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Stealth Device (3)

(35)

Dark Curse (16)

Total: 100

Honestly, who cares about initiative when you have a badass motherfucker like Dark Curse on your team?

Edited March 19, 2015 by SpikeSpiegel

[Immaterium Press 113]

He's good filler if you have the 16 or so points to spare, but with the more expensive main ships for Imperials it rarely seems to come up anymore. You either have a few extra points to turn one of your filler TIEs into Howlrunner, or you just keep them all as Academies or Obsidians. He also has that direct comparison with Backstabber, and as a flanker Backstabber is definitely more dangerous in the short term. Most people seem to take offense first, then defense in their squad building, so once again Dark Curse just falls short of making the list.

 

If people start taking Blaster Turrets again then he and Carnor increase in value as annoying counters, but they still don't see a lot of use outside the occasional HWK (MC Title and Recon Specialist make Blaster Turret a lot more reliable, as does Palob's ability). Ion is just too handy (and easier to hit with since you don't have to spend a focus just to permit the shot). Occasionally I have a Y-wing with Blaster Turret and R4 in a Scum list, but I haven't used it yet. I still prefer the look of a standard ICT or the BTL-A4 Warthog setup.

 

Anyway, Dark Curse is a solid pilot, but he's more annoying than dangerous and I think most people want their ships to be dangerous. DC's ability on a more scary ship would be sick.

[heychadwick 11,357]

I love Dark Curse.  He's always been one of my favorite ships.  His PS is good against all but the best.  I especially like to lead with him as maybe he's the only guy in range.  R3 with no modifiers is great and people usually TL him and forget about his ability. 

 

I've been running a list I am either calling "Escort Duty" or "Space Cowboys" that revolves around Fleet Officer and some Tie Fighters.  I just tried it one night and it worked a heck of a lot better than I anticipated.  I thought it was just a fun list, but it's actually working out very well.

 

Omnicron + Adv Sensors + Fleet Officer + Anti Pursuit Lasers

Dark Curse

Backstabber

Night Beast

2 x Academy

 

Toss out 2 Focus each turn to the Tie Fighters and you do really well.  Lead with Dark Curse.  Night Beast can do a green and end up with 2 Focus and an Evade.  Backstabber does what he does and tries to stay alive.  Him having 2 Focus or a Focus and Evade really helps.  The Academy last longer with free Focus, but are there to block and die. 

 

Dark Curse is fantastic. 

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

Dark Curse is great.  I don't think anyone believes otherwise.  Whether or not you run him in a list though depends on what you're looking for.  For example, a 'traditional' TIE swarm or even a mini-swarm doesn't benefit much from his defensiveness because it wants to maximize killing power more than anything else (hence why Howlrunner is more popular).

 

Having said that, Dark Curse is perfect when you want a 'defense first' list and have just enough killing power elsewhere so his 2 attack is not a liability.  For example:

 

Whisper w/ VI, ACD, FCS + gunner = 44

Echo w/ VI, ACD, FCS + recon spec = 40

Dark Curse = 16

 

But not everyone wants to run a list like that (I do, but not all the time!)

[WWHSD 9,273]

Ultimately Dark Curse is just a TIE Fighter that is a little harder to kill. There is almost nothing that an Imperial player could field that would be a lower priority target than Dark Curse. Dark Curse's ability also doesn't help him very much against ships that are not getting a TL or Focus for whatever reason. If a ship K-Turns or gets blocked then they might as well shoot at Dark Curse.

 

I'd almost always rather spend the 16 points on Backstabber. If he's ignored he can do a lot of damage. If he's prioritized as a target then your more expensive ships are getting shot at.

[dotswarlock 2,424]

I rarely field Dark Curse for a simple reason: yes, he is highly survivable, but on his own, he is not a threat.

 

If I see Dark Curse on the field, I will target other enemy fighters first.  75% of the time, he'll end up being the last ship standing and since I fly 3 agility dice ships as well, odds are he won't have an easier time hitting me than I'll have hitting him.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

because I'm playing scum atm ...

 

Over on the empire side, I treat Dark Curse and the Academy Pilot like I treat the Prototype and the Bandit. If I'm only bringing one pain-in-the-ass filler, I'm bringing the more expensive guy.

 

This choice is far more important to the rebels, though, because a single Z-95 is about as useful as a nostril on your left asscheek. The prototype's advantages justify the 3 point expenditure several times over.

 

For empire, though, you're picking between two very excellent ships. Curse has some hilarious durability that lets you use him in hilarious ways, but at the end of the day he's still a Tie Fighter just like the Academy Pilot.

Edited March 19, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[Fuego Estelar 401]

I have used in tournaments Dark Curse + Stealth Device...

 

Is so funny see when I throw 4, 5, even 6 green dices and my oponent throws 3 and can´t change anything

[LtRico 113]

+1 for the OP for all that swearing

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

Because at the end of the day he still only has 2 attack dice and moves at 6 PS, which is useless. I view stealth device as an auto include and now he's 19 points and just... eh.

 

I would rather just have a 12 point Academy and spend the extra points elsewhere.

Edited March 20, 2015 by ParaGoomba Slayer

[Magnus Grendel 11,679]

His problem is much the same as the unupgraded TIE advanced - you're paying for excellent durability for your cost....but you have no way to force your opponent to concentrate fire on him. He makes a good 'point man' in a swarm pinwheel, as does Night Beast (who should have a focus/evade combo from his ability.).

 

I love all the named TIE Fighters - in fact, that's the squad I'm currently trying to master. And yes, I had a game recently against Scum Y-wings with Blaster Turrets and R4 Agromechs. Dark Curse was an absolute legend in that game, as you might imagine.

[Englishpete 1,379]

I used dark Curse as my chosen pilot in our league last year. He and his Obsidian buddies killed everything on their way to the final, where I lost to a Fat Han list.

 

It was Han vs Dark Curse at the end and I conceded rather than chase each other around for hours......

 

Dark Curse is awesome.

[heychadwick 11,357]

I have used in tournaments Dark Curse + Stealth Device...

 

Is so funny see when I throw 4, 5, even 6 green dices and my oponent throws 3 and can´t change anything

 

Do you know how many times I've just thrown crap dice with this set up?  R3, Stealth Device, and they can't modify.   I've had it pop in the first volley so many times....

[Rogue Dakotan 5,213]

Dark Curse is my Favorite Pilot in the game. If I have points for him I'll usually take him. Unless I really want to draw fire off of my other ships. Usually players will ignore DC if they have a better shot. Throwing in Backstabber makes them have to think a little harder on who to shoot. 

 

But normally I'll take DC. 

 

DARK CURSE!

[Red Winter 381]

Spike, Dark Curse is definitely an awesome TIE Fighter. My buddy plays a list dubbed "The Unholy Trinity."

 

Echo w/ VI, Captive, ACD, FCS

Vader w/ Clusters, EU, Predator

Dark Curse w/ Hull Upgrade

 

It only gets better with the Raider, but Curse is a PITA. The addition of the hull upgrade makes his ability so much more annoying.

[SpikeSpiegel 2,077]

It's just hilarious when they shoot at Dark Curse, roll 3 eyeballs, and see the excitement in their eyes be snuffed out at the fact that they're shooting at Dark Curse and they pretty much rolled 3 blanks.

He's also really good at being a thorn in the side, people won't shoot him if they have other options, but Dark Curse is still shooting back, which even pinging off a shield or two over the course of a few turns makes your other ships' job that much easier.

[Deepspace5 187]

The OP makes a good point here.  And Press brings up another good one about Carnor Jax.  A LOT of scum pilots are hinged on the focus action.  Basic strategy in this game has always been action economy.  When you deny this to your opponent's ships or hinder them in some way, via DC or Jax, it can be crippling.  Yes, they could still get lucky shots.  Yes DC is still just a TIE, but if his ability keeps him on the board for longer and forces your opponent to shoot your other ships you can use that to your advantage.  

 

I'm on the fence between Backstabber and DC.  I agree with WWHSD about Backstabber most of the time but I believe DC has his place as well, and needs to be looked at again with the release of scum (if you haven't already).  As others have mentioned, R4 Agromech is all over the place.  Consider the 'warthog' Y-Wing of Scum.  Thug with Ion Turret, title, and R4.  You shut down the use of R4 with Carnor and DC...so no modifications on either attack.  You are effectively neutering the firepower here.

 

Let us look at some of the focus pilots/upgrades that are no good or hindered against DC and can be hindered by Jax:

 

Standard Focus

Guri ability usefulness

Blaster Turret (usable on 2/5 small base ships for Scum)

Proton Rockets

Half of Kaa'to's ability

Bodyguard

Calculation

Half of Palob's ability (yes he cans till steal it but he can't use it)

Rexler Brath

Recon Specialist

Whisper's Focus on hit

Jake Farrell

Garven Dreis

Kyle Katarn (Pilot)

Kyle Katarn (Crew)

Half of Lando (Crew)

Deadeye

 

I'm sure there are more focus related things out there that get messed up from these two pilots.  If you go with the OP and include just DC talk, the list is longer with the things he's listed and some additional ones.

 

One thing to point out is also the rise of Accuracy Corrector.  After the release of the Raider I would expect to see some splashes of Tempest Squadron Pilots with Accuracy Correctors for 21 points make their way in various Imperial lists.  Big enough of a splash to not use DC?  Probably not, but I know that I'm going to be running some squads with these to see how they do.  You can evade or BR all day long and always get your two hits in...pretty snazzy for 21 points.

 

TL:DR - DC is good.  I think he gets put into squads that can fit points, but has a hard time contending with backstabber.  Action economy denial is huge and not used very often (save control lists).

 

Bonus idea:  What about running DC, Jax, and Kagi?

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

There's a simple explanation: the reason you don't see him as much is because the meta has slowly strayed away from swarms. Care to try your hand against my 6 TIE swarm, Mr. Spiegel?

[WWHSD 9,273]

The OP makes a good point here.  And Press brings up another good one about Carnor Jax.  A LOT of scum pilots are hinged on the focus action.  Basic strategy in this game has always been action economy.  When you deny this to your opponent's ships or hinder them in some way, via DC or Jax, it can be crippling.  Yes, they could still get lucky shots.  Yes DC is still just a TIE, but if his ability keeps him on the board for longer and forces your opponent to shoot your other ships you can use that to your advantage.  

 

I'm on the fence between Backstabber and DC.  I agree with WWHSD about Backstabber most of the time but I believe DC has his place as well, and needs to be looked at again with the release of scum (if you haven't already).  As others have mentioned, R4 Agromech is all over the place.  Consider the 'warthog' Y-Wing of Scum.  Thug with Ion Turret, title, and R4.  You shut down the use of R4 with Carnor and DC...so no modifications on either attack.  You are effectively neutering the firepower here.

 

Let us look at some of the focus pilots/upgrades that are no good or hindered against DC and can be hindered by Jax:

 

Standard Focus

Guri ability usefulness

Blaster Turret (usable on 2/5 small base ships for Scum)

Proton Rockets

Half of Kaa'to's ability

Bodyguard

Calculation

Half of Palob's ability (yes he cans till steal it but he can't use it)

Rexler Brath

Recon Specialist

Whisper's Focus on hit

Jake Farrell

Garven Dreis

Kyle Katarn (Pilot)

Kyle Katarn (Crew)

Half of Lando (Crew)

Deadeye

 

I'm sure there are more focus related things out there that get messed up from these two pilots.  If you go with the OP and include just DC talk, the list is longer with the things he's listed and some additional ones.

 

One thing to point out is also the rise of Accuracy Corrector.  After the release of the Raider I would expect to see some splashes of Tempest Squadron Pilots with Accuracy Correctors for 21 points make their way in various Imperial lists.  Big enough of a splash to not use DC?  Probably not, but I know that I'm going to be running some squads with these to see how they do.  You can evade or BR all day long and always get your two hits in...pretty snazzy for 21 points.

 

TL:DR - DC is good.  I think he gets put into squads that can fit points, but has a hard time contending with backstabber.  Action economy denial is huge and not used very often (save control lists).

 

Bonus idea:  What about running DC, Jax, and Kagi?

Proton Rockets can still be fired at Dark Curse an in the presence of Jax (assuming you are out of range when you take the fo us action). You don't need to spend the token to fire the rockets, you just need to have one.

[Deepspace5 187]

 

The OP makes a good point here.  And Press brings up another good one about Carnor Jax.  A LOT of scum pilots are hinged on the focus action.  Basic strategy in this game has always been action economy.  When you deny this to your opponent's ships or hinder them in some way, via DC or Jax, it can be crippling.  Yes, they could still get lucky shots.  Yes DC is still just a TIE, but if his ability keeps him on the board for longer and forces your opponent to shoot your other ships you can use that to your advantage.  

 

I'm on the fence between Backstabber and DC.  I agree with WWHSD about Backstabber most of the time but I believe DC has his place as well, and needs to be looked at again with the release of scum (if you haven't already).  As others have mentioned, R4 Agromech is all over the place.  Consider the 'warthog' Y-Wing of Scum.  Thug with Ion Turret, title, and R4.  You shut down the use of R4 with Carnor and DC...so no modifications on either attack.  You are effectively neutering the firepower here.

 

Let us look at some of the focus pilots/upgrades that are no good or hindered against DC and can be hindered by Jax:

 

Standard Focus

Guri ability usefulness

Blaster Turret (usable on 2/5 small base ships for Scum)

Proton Rockets

Half of Kaa'to's ability

Bodyguard

Calculation

Half of Palob's ability (yes he cans till steal it but he can't use it)

Rexler Brath

Recon Specialist

Whisper's Focus on hit

Jake Farrell

Garven Dreis

Kyle Katarn (Pilot)

Kyle Katarn (Crew)

Half of Lando (Crew)

Deadeye

 

I'm sure there are more focus related things out there that get messed up from these two pilots.  If you go with the OP and include just DC talk, the list is longer with the things he's listed and some additional ones.

 

One thing to point out is also the rise of Accuracy Corrector.  After the release of the Raider I would expect to see some splashes of Tempest Squadron Pilots with Accuracy Correctors for 21 points make their way in various Imperial lists.  Big enough of a splash to not use DC?  Probably not, but I know that I'm going to be running some squads with these to see how they do.  You can evade or BR all day long and always get your two hits in...pretty snazzy for 21 points.

 

TL:DR - DC is good.  I think he gets put into squads that can fit points, but has a hard time contending with backstabber.  Action economy denial is huge and not used very often (save control lists).

 

Bonus idea:  What about running DC, Jax, and Kagi?

Proton Rockets can still be fired at Dark Curse an in the presence of Jax (assuming you are out of range when you take the fo us action). You don't need to spend the token to fire the rockets, you just need to have one.

 

Very true.  Good catch.  Not being able to spend that focus is still a hindrance though...that is one of the main draw of Prockets.  It is also tougher to pull off than normal.

[Keffisch 2,642]

No, seriously, why aren't people flying him?

 

Because, Backstabber.

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

No, seriously, why aren't people flying him?

Because, Backstabber.

Are 16 point games a thing in your area, or do you sometimes play with more than one ship?

[Keffisch 2,642]

<3 snarky comments that miss the point.

[Keffisch 2,642]

Look at what you get for those 16 points though.

[Artedil 27]

I don't see any problem, my list:

98 points 

Turr Phennir (31): TIE Interceptor (25), Royal Guard TIE (0), Veteran Instincts (1), Stealth Device (3), Autothrusters (2)

Soontir Fel (35): TIE Interceptor (27), Royal Guard TIE (0), Push the Limit (3), Stealth Device (3), Autothrusters (2)

Backstabber (16)

Dark Curse (16)

Edited March 23, 2015 by Artedil