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Don't put Boba Fett on the box if Boba Fett is not in the box.

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A cardboard cutout is not useful for anything. A 2d token is. Face it your only issue is that you don't get something you want for nothing.

 

 

how about you stop telling people how they really feel and go herd some Nerf

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You forget that many people will be getting this as a present or from an online vendor without having a chance to check what's included (or without even considering they need to check).

These are two completely different things.

Anyone who gets it as a present may very well be disappointed when they get an expansion pack to a game they don't even own in the first place...

 

Second anyone who buys it online based purely on the artwork quite frankly deserves some disappointment. Because if they can't bother to do 30 seconds of research then they have bigger problems then a lack of a 3d model in the box.

Because once again, you don't actually need the 3d model to play the campaign.

 

 

Another weird assumption. Let me tell you a very realistic gifting scenario. I'm playing the game with 4 other people and within a weekly event that 25+ people attend all of which know we are playing SW:IA every week for the last 2 months. It is very likely for one of those people to buy me this expansion as a gift when they see its name in my WTB list on BGG.

 

Artwork clearly implies Boba Fett is included and saying that "he is included as a token" doesn't change the fact that this game is actually played with miniatures (in our group we have replaced every missing figure with older SW miniatures) and that most people love miniatures and dislike tokens.

 

 

Quote

Where in the world do you come up with $72? It's $40 for the box. Unless you're including the expansion packs into that price.

The full Twin Shadows expansion is $72. You know that very well.

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Artwork clearly implies Boba Fett is included and saying that "he is included as a token" doesn't change the fact that this game is actually played with miniatures (in our group we have replaced every missing figure with older SW miniatures) and that most people love miniatures and dislike tokens.

 

Again, the artwork on the box is depicting the play experience when you purchase the game. This game is 100% playable with all the contents within this game. It is your preference to replace missing figure with SW minis. 

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Let me sell you this box with a wrench on it. Inside is a screw driver and a cardboard cutout of a wrench.

uuummmm... Wrenches don't come in boxes.

A store is a box. QED.

Why wasn't there a picture of a wrench on the front of your store, Home Depot? Charlatans!

Edited by EwokCompanion

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Hey Kaic, are you heading to FFG this wknd? If so, make sure to bring your Rebel list with Hand and Chewie, with your cardboard tokens because "everything you need to play" Han and Chewie is in the core box.

Make sure to post back with how that works for you.

 

 

Nope I'm not, token work just fine for casual play and campaign mode.  I do agree, to a certain extent, that they should let you use the token for any miniature packs that aren't released yet.

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Not only will I (unjustly) be disappointed when I see that a "jet pack on full afterburner" flying Boba isn't included as a minifig, but I'll be even more disappointed or even right out angry when i realize that the box is also severely lacking in the "exploding tower" department.

(Sarcasm might have been added)

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Edit: DarkJodo  - please look at the Boba Fett figure pack. It has an almost identical picture of Boba with no photo of the actual miniature on it. But when you put the same artwork on the expansion and not include the mini its NOT misleading.

 

Again, LiquidLogic, all the artwork, on both covers, is depicting the play experience when you purchase either products. I will be able to play and experience Boba Fett in either products. The artwork on either products are not misleading.

 

If FFG pasted a picture of a 3D model of Boba Fett on the cover of Twin Shadows and did not include it - THAT would be misleading. The current artwork on the cover IS NOT misleading. 

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Let me sell you this box with a wrench on it. Inside is a screw driver and a cardboard cutout of a wrench.

uuummmm... Wrenches don't come in boxes.

A store is a box. QED.

Why wasn't there a picture of a wrench on the front of your store, Home Depot? Charlatans!

 

 

Listen Nerd, I don't buy my wrenches from those crooks in their big-box stores. I only buy mine from the blacksmiths at my local Renaissance festival.

Edited by Thanatopsis

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DarkJodo:  Then by the same token (pun intented),  FFG could include artwork cover of Boba on his mini package and put a Chewbacca miniature inside, along with a 2d cardboard cutout of Boba Fett, and you would be ok with it 'depicts the play experience' of Boba Fett.

Edited by LiquidLogic

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Listen Nerd, I don't buy my wrenches those crooks in their big-box stores. I only buy mine from the blacksmiths at my local Renaissance festival.

 

 

The Jerk Store called, they are all out of boxes with your face on it.

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The Jerk Store called, they are all out of boxes with your face on it.

 

 

To be clear, am I speaking to a dry humping Ewok or a man named "ashcan" (or should I say "Ass Kan")?

Or, are you more than just the sum of your title and cover image?

Edited by Thanatopsis

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DarkJodo:  Then by the same token (pun intented),  FFG could include artwork cover of Boba on his mini package and put a Chewbacca miniature inside, along with a 2d cardboard cutout of Boba Fett, and you would be ok with it 'depicts the play experience' of Boba Fett.

No, LiquidLogic. FFG has already conditioned us with their sale model with the core set and wave 1 expansions. We know that bigger sets will indeed include tokens that we will be able to purchase 3D versions in the form of expansions if we want to. FFG has been very clear what is and what is not included in the form of their preview articles, as well as their release articles. We know exactly what we are getting when we make our purchase.

 

I am sorry you do not like the model, but Boba Fett is on the box because Boba Fett is in the box. Just not in the form that you want. 

Edited by DarkJodo

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To be clear, am I speaking to a dry humping Ewok or a man named "ashcan" (or should I say "Ass Kan")?

Or, are you more than just the sum of your title and cover image?

 

 

This isn't false advertising; I literally live under an overpass and follow the Ewok life style.

 

Thanatopsis, I suggest you meditate on the death of your civility, you nerd lord.

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You're making the argument for those of us that don't agree with the art.

See you have to add something to what I said to make it work like you said.

I never once said the fully loaded car was advertised at the base model cost. Only that it was what someone took the test drive in.

So no it doesn't work towards your argument, because what you say is in fact a form of false advertising, what I said was someone seeing an option with everything and being upset when everything doesn't come for the base model price.

It is misleading because of 3 factors:

Of your 3 reasons, 1 is completely pointless. How iconic he may or may not be has no bearing on if he should or should not be in the box.

3 contradicts itself, because he is in the box, just not in 3d model format.

2 has some validity, but does not rise to the level of being misleading because the contents of the box will be clearly labeled on the box. No one can honestly say they were mislead about the contents unless they intentionally avoided looking at the back of the box to see what was or wasn't included.

Yes the cover art may be what gets someone to pick up the box and look at it, and consider buying it. But that doesn't mean anyone with half a brain is going to pick up the box, and run to the register without even looking into it further.

 

 

Actually, what I'm telling you is that your comparison is flawed.  Taking the car out for a test drive would be like me opening up the box and being allowed to play with everything, or demoing it at the store.  This is an advertisement.

 

If Warhammer or any other game marketed as a MINIATURES game sold you an expansion that contained cardboard cutouts or tokens, it would be (pick a word...  Wrong, misleading, etc.) and people would be upset.

 

Whether FFG is required - or simply chooses - to market this as a miniatures game or not, I - and others - are simply stating our opinions that as consumers it's coming off as a cash grab when they could help out the fanbase by not necessarily bleeding us dry just because - for the majority of us - they can.

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DarkJodo:  Then by the same token (pun intented),  FFG could include artwork cover of Boba on his mini package and put a Chewbacca miniature inside, along with a 2d cardboard cutout of Boba Fett, and you would be ok with it 'depicts the play experience' of Boba Fett.

 

Extrapolation alert.

 

You are getting a picture of the play experience.

 

And the fricking contents listed on the box and product page!

 

If you can't read a contents list you probably can't handle Boba Fett's awesomeness anyways :P

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This isn't false advertising; I literally live under an overpass and follow the Ewok life style.

 

Thanatopsis, I suggest you meditate on the death of your civility, you nerd lord.

 

 

Meditation complete... 

resolution: if I ever find a Boba Fett miniature in an ashcan or in the possession of an Ewok, I expect said ashcan or Ewok to be properly labeled with an image of a cardboard disk.

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Meditation complete... 

resolution: if I ever find a Boba Fett miniature in an ashcan or in the possession of an Ewok, I expect said ashcan or Ewok to be properly labeled with an image of a cardboard disk.

 

 

FFG, why doesn't any of my miniature expansions come with a cardboard disc??? What the heck?!?

Edited by EwokCompanion

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This is an advertisement.

You're right, they're showing you everything you can get, all the bells and whistles. But that does not give anyone a reasonable expectation that the base model will come with them. So the example is quite apt IMO.

You are seeing a product, and assuming it comes with something, which isn't actually required for the product to function. It does not show a picture of a Boba Fett miniature on the box, so there is no reasonable expectation that it should come with that miniture, only that Boba Fett factors into the missions included.

 

If Warhammer or any other game marketed as a MINIATURES

Sorry, but no. It would not be misleading as long as it was clearly stated what you are actually getting in the package.

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FFG, why doesn't any of my miniature expansions come with a cardboard disc??? What the heck?!?

 

 

Well, my dad works at FFG and he said that all future miniature expansions will include cardboard disks. That way players that don't want to use the miniature have options. And yes, he promised before bedtime last night that there would be an image of the disk on the packaging.

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DarkJodo:  Then by the same token (pun intented),  FFG could include artwork cover of Boba on his mini package and put a Chewbacca miniature inside, along with a 2d cardboard cutout of Boba Fett, and you would be ok with it 'depicts the play experience' of Boba Fett.

 

Extrapolation alert.

 

You are getting a picture of the play experience.

 

And the fricking contents listed on the box and product page!

 

If you can't read a contents list you probably can't handle Boba Fett's awesomeness anyways :P

 

 

"The play experience"

 

I'm seeing that termed thrown around pretty fast and loose all-of-a-sudden.  How many of you guys work for FFG, their PR or their ad agenc(ies)?  That term is vapor, it's spin.  If the box art is "a picture of the play experience" then by that reasoning, FFG is telling people that if they buy that product that will be able to fly Boba Fett around and blow up towers.  That hardly tells you about "the play experience".  Where's my "Twin Shadows" on the box art to show me my "play experience" that the expansion is named for?

 

What DOES give you a picture of the play experience is a live demo in your FLGS which is how we sold several copies of the game for our local FLGS on the weekend during our tournament.  People who LITERALLY weren't willing to spend the money on the game until they watched us play the game out in Skirmish.  A box art doesn't tell you enough about the play experience, hell I didn't even buy the game initially until I went to BGG and read up on a bunch of reviews to get a sample of opinions.  The box art doesn't cut it, it should (if it's affective in it's objective) give you an idea of what to expect from the inside.  The box tells me I should expect something to do with Boba Fett, and I'm disappointed that he obviously has something to do with the expansion but his mini isn't included.

 

 

How does their Tournament rules have any merit on the discussion at hand? The rules don't keep you from playing a full game out of the box.

 

 

Because part of purchasing the product is the organized play that comes along with it and what you purchase out of this box is not complete in that context because not everything required is present.  The reason why is twofold:

 

1) Because FFG has stated in their official tournament rules that you're not allowed to use tokens

2) Boba Fett (and others) are only included in Token form.

 

Are we really having this discussion?

 

 

 

Hey Kaic, are you heading to FFG this wknd? If so, make sure to bring your Rebel list with Hand and Chewie, with your cardboard tokens because "everything you need to play" Han and Chewie is in the core box.

I'm fairly sure that anyone playing the campaign would have no issue using the Han and Chewie tokens. It's only when you are playing Premier level tournaments that you actually need the expansions.

So yes, if you're going to play at Regionals, you'll need a Han or Chewie model to play, but that's hardly relevant to this discussion.

 

How is it not relevant?  Why do you think that it's only regionals and even if it were...  How does that change anything?  The point stands.

 

 

 

They think it's misleading because it is misleading. 

 

It is misleading because of 3 factors:

 

1. Its an iconic figure that everyone who loves Star Wars IMMEDIATELY identifies with.

 

2. Its the ONLY figure on the box cover.

 

3. The iconic figure displayed is not actually inside the box. (except for a 2D representation in a 3d miniatures game)

 

 

It's the equivalent of putting the Millennium Falcon as the only figure on Cover art of an X-Wing miniatures game but not including it inside.

 

1. Ok - so everyone who loves Star Wars immediately identifies with him. Fine - I agree. He is a character that you will encounter in the box. This is not a point to show anything is misleading, so I am confused why you made the effort to type it out.

 

2. Again - he is a character you will encounter in the game. I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that he's probably going to be one of the main villains for the entire mini- campaign. So I am absolutely fine with him being the only person on the box. And where is the rule that artwork for a game has to include every single character/element found within the game? This point is ludicrous. 

 

3. The iconic figure displayed IS included in the box. FFG made no claims or no artwork depicting that a 3D model of boba fett would be in this box by this artwork alone.

 

None of these points are proving this to be misleading in any way.

 

 

1. The same reason why people buy celebrity endorsed prodcuts, because relate to those celebrities and it works.  There's nothing to say those celebrities actually use those prodcuts at all, but it's not the point.  The point is to get people to feel inclined to buy the product.

 

2. He is a character you are bound to encounter.  It would've been really great for FFG to take it a little easier on our wallets and include everything (figure, agenda, skirmish mission, command cards, etc.) with the expansion that prominently figures him on the box.

 

3. No, PART of what is designed for the iconic figure is included in the box.  Not all of it, PART of it.  Arguably for the sole purpose of milking more money out of the customer.

 

 

 

Why is everyone referring to Boba Fett as a figure?

Artwork of him is used on the box but the figure or miniature isn't used anywhere...
 
Can't the same argument about misleading packaging be used in reverse?
 
If say the package had pictures of the two new heroes as an Imperial player I may go to the store and say. Screw my rebel players I'm going to purchase Boba Fett's ally pack with my limited funds.
 
Then I get home and realize his ally pack comes with just one agenda set to mix him into the campaign.
 
Later I read about the box I skipped and find out I could have gotten 3-4 missions that bring him into the campaign if only that box had some Boba Fett art on it.

 

 

Because it's a game the predominantly features miniatures, it's marketed as a miniatures game, 3D high-detail miniatures are a lot cooler than cheap 2D circular cardboard tokens...  Really?!

 

As for the rest of your post, I couldn't agree more.  Just imagine how happy you and I - and almost EVERYBODY else - would be if we both bought the expansion and got that great value of having all the campaign and skirmish stuff for the guy on the box.

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Pretty sure there won't be any problem using either Han or Chewie from what came in the core box. People realize these named characters aren't actually usable as heroes like the 6 Rebels right? They are allies to them in the champaign and just need the token and card for Skirmish. The tourney rules say the token is fine to use as far as I can tell.

They actually - quite specifically - say you can't.

 

 

 

DarkJodo:  Then by the same token (pun intented),  FFG could include artwork cover of Boba on his mini package and put a Chewbacca miniature inside, along with a 2d cardboard cutout of Boba Fett, and you would be ok with it 'depicts the play experience' of Boba Fett.

No, LiquidLogic. FFG has already conditioned us with their sale model with the core set and wave 1 expansions. We know that bigger sets will indeed include tokens that we will be able to purchase 3D versions in the form of expansions if we want to. FFG has been very clear what is and what is not included in the form of their preview articles, as well as their release articles. We know exactly what we are getting when we make our purchase.

 

I am sorry you do not like the model, but Boba Fett is on the box because Boba Fett is in the box. Just not in the form that you want. 

Odd...  all the characters in the cover art on the core set are IN the box...  As actual 3D miniatures...  Weird.

 

And right in the bottom right of the box in bold...  "A Game of Legendary Star Wars Adventure and Tactical - wait for it... - Miniatures Combat for 2 - 5 Players"

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Well, my dad works at FFG and he said that all future miniature expansions will include cardboard disks. That way players that don't want to use the miniature have options. And yes, he promised before bedtime last night that there would be an image of the disk on the packaging.

 

 

Tell your dad if I wanted to play with cardboard discs, I'd break out my illustrious  POG collection. Oh wait, psyche, they are super collectible and I would never tarnish their mint conditions, DUH.

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