Action Stacking (Jake Farrell+PtL)

[daxxglax 25]

Just wondering if these scenarios are legal:

 

Jake Farrell:

-Focuses

-Takes a free Barrel Roll

-Pushes the Limit to Boost 

 

Jake Farrell:

-Boosts

-Pushes the Limit

-Focuses

-Takes a free Barrel Roll

 

Also, if Jake were assigned a Focus token at the beginning of Combat (via, say, Kyle Katarn) could he perform a Boost action even if he had boosted in the Activation Phase (during, which, let's say, he focused and did a free boost)

[dvorm 1,058]

Just wondering if these scenarios are legal:

 

Jake Farrell:

-Focuses

-Takes a free Barrel Roll

-Pushes the Limit to Boost 

 

Jake Farrell:

-Boosts

-Pushes the Limit

-Focuses

-Takes a free Barrel Roll

All of that is fine. Don't forget the stress at the end.

 

 

Also, if Jake were assigned a Focus token at the beginning of Combat (via, say, Kyle Katarn) could he perform a Boost action even if he had boosted in the Activation Phase (during, which, let's say, he focused and did a free boost)

No. Nobody can perform the same action twice during one round.

 

 

Edit:

You can still use his ability twice during one round.

Activation phase: Focus action plus free boost action.

Combat phase: Focus token from Kyle for a free barrel roll action.

Edited March 18, 2015 by dvor

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

For that matter:

Jake Farrell:

• Target Locks
• Gets passed a Focus Token by Kyle Katarn or Garven Dreis
• Boosts
• Pushes the Limit
• Focuses
• Barrel-Rolls
• Gains a stress from PtL
• Laugh at opposing fleet (Optional)

[ted1138 21]

1st is legal, 2nd isn't(after you ptl and focus you get a stress, so can't perform free barrel roll).

[godofcheese 456]

1st is legal, 2nd isn't(after you ptl and focus you get a stress, so can't perform free barrel roll).

 

Actually, the boost.... triggered by the focus token occurs before the stress is applied by PtL in the scenario. It's perfectly legal.

[ted1138 21]

 

1st is legal, 2nd isn't(after you ptl and focus you get a stress, so can't perform free barrel roll).

 

Actually, the boost.... triggered by the focus token occurs before the stress is applied by PtL in the scenario. It's perfectly legal.

 

The barrel roll comes after the stress, which makes it illegal. And it was boost, then focus(not the other way round).

Edited March 20, 2015 by ted1138

[ScottieATF 2,867]

1st is legal, 2nd isn't(after you ptl and focus you get a stress, so can't perform free barrel roll).

Actually, the boost.... triggered by the focus token occurs before the stress is applied by PtL in the scenario. It's perfectly legal.

The barrel roll comes after the stress, which makes it illegal. And it was boost, then focus(not the other way round).

You have the rules incorrect.

You are absolutely able to take an action, use it to trigger PTL, use the PTL action to focus, use that to trigger Jake's ability, do Jake's ability granted action, then receive the stress from PTL.

Edited March 20, 2015 by ScottieATF

[Klutz 1,590]

The complete timing diagram for an example activation of Jake Farrell with PTL:

 

• Jake Farrell performs his maneuver, has no stress tokens
• Action: Boost
  • Trigger Push the Limit off Boost Action
    • Action: Focus
      • Trigger Jake Farrell's ability off Focus Action
        • Action: Barrel Roll
    • Receive stress from Push the Limit
• End Jake Farrell's activation

 

 

The timing of PTL and EI deserves a visual explanation!

[godofcheese 456]

 

 

1st is legal, 2nd isn't(after you ptl and focus you get a stress, so can't perform free barrel roll).

 

Actually, the boost.... triggered by the focus token occurs before the stress is applied by PtL in the scenario. It's perfectly legal.

 

The barrel roll comes after the stress, which makes it illegal. And it was boost, then focus(not the other way round).

 

 

Actually Jake's free boost/barrel roll from a focus token occurs immediately following the focus action, which slots it in before the stress from PTL.

 

See Klutz fantastic flow chart above.

[ted1138 21]

Here is the scenario as presented by the op:

 

Jake Farrell:

-Boosts

-Pushes the Limit

-Focuses

-Takes a free Barrel Roll

 

 

Lets go through it step by step; Jake Boosts(action), he then uses PTL to Focus(another action), he now gains a stress from using PTL, he then takes a free Barrel roll action.  

 

Please explain to me how that is legal?

[ScottieATF 2,867]

See Klutz's post and take a leaf through the FAQ again. The trigger of of the PTL action gets nested within the resolution of PTL.

[Klutz 1,590]

Here is the scenario as presented by the op:

 

Jake Farrell:

-Boosts

-Pushes the Limit

-Focuses

-Takes a free Barrel Roll

 

 

Lets go through it step by step; Jake Boosts(action), he then uses PTL to Focus(another action), he now gains a stress from using PTL, he then takes a free Barrel roll action.  

 

Please explain to me how that is legal?

Lets go through it step by step; Jake Boosts(action), he then uses PTL to Focus(another action), he then takes a free Barrel roll action, he now gains a stress from using PTL.

[DR4CO 6,234]

Lets go through it step by step; Jake Boosts(action), he then uses PTL to Focus(another action), he now gains a stress from using PTL, he then takes a free Barrel roll action.  

 

Please explain to me how that is legal?

 

Refer to Klutz's post. Jake's ability interrupts PtL as soon as he performs the Focus action, allowing him to Barrel Roll before the stress from PtL lands.

 

Also refer to the FAQ, which explicitly outlines that yes, this does indeed work.

[Parravon 5,217]

Here is the scenario as presented by the op:

 

Jake Farrell:

-Boosts

-Pushes the Limit

-Focuses

-Takes a free Barrel Roll

 

 

Lets go through it step by step; Jake Boosts(action), he then uses PTL to Focus(another action), he now gains a stress from using PTL, he then takes a free Barrel roll action.  

 

Please explain to me how that is legal?

Push the Limit allows a free action which in turn may trigger another action/ability, which in turn may continue to trigger yet another action/ability, all of which can happen before getting to the "Then receive 1 stress token" part of the PtL card.

 

It's all part of the interrupting effect of nested actions/abilities, and once you get your head around how they work, you'll start looking to see what you can chain together for maximum effect. What has been described by the others above is perfectly legal and the correct way in which these things work. It's also damned good fun when you can pull it all off.

[godofcheese 456]

Jake performs a boost. STOP. Jake decides here whether to push the limit. He decides to Push the limit.

Push the limit says perform 1 free action, he chooses focus. (STOP. Jake chooses to barrel roll off his focus). Then recieve 1 stress token.

If you still have an issue with it, despite what everything and everyone says, do the focus action first, choose to boost off the focus and use that boost to trigger PtL for a barrel roll. Same result, no confusion over PtL liming.

[ted1138 21]

PTL interrupts Jakes rule, he gets the stress before the barrel roll. If not then my decimator can use PTL and Experimental interface and take two stress at the end of three actions. You don't get to choose when you receive the stress.

Edited March 22, 2015 by ted1138

[godofcheese 456]

PTL interrupts Jakes rule, he gets the stress before the barrel roll. If not then my decimator can use PTL and Experimental interface and take two stress at the end of three actions. You don't get to choose when you receive the stress.

 

No, Jake's rule interups PTL, he gets the stress after the barrel roll. Yes, your Decimator CAN use PtL and EI (assuming you have an upgrade card with the "Action:" header - which given it's upgrade slots, limits it to Saboteur, Fleet Officer or Proximity Mine) to take 3 actions, at the cost of 2 stress.If one of the crew is Isane Isard, then when it has a damage card, it can even trigger all of that off Isard's ability giving it 4 actions in the turn (but 1 must be an evade, 1 must be from an upgrade card, and the other 2 must be target lock and focus (the only 2 on it's action bar).

[Klutz 1,590]

PTL interrupts Jakes rule, he gets the stress before the barrel roll. If not then my decimator can use PTL and Experimental interface and take two stress at the end of three actions. You don't get to choose when you receive the stress.

 

Seriously, just read the FAQ... From page 16:

Push the Limit

Free actions, such as a free action granted from Squad Leader, can trigger Push the Limit. This can result in an action interrupting another effect, causing that effect to finish resolving later. For example, if a ship performs a free barrel roll action granted by Expert Handling, it could use that action as a trigger for Push the Limit. After Push the Limit resolves, Expert Handling finishes resolving.

 

[ScottieATF 2,867]

You have got to be kidding me!

[ted1138 21]

@Klutz, the faq backs me up. It even states "After Push the Limit resolves, Expert Handling finishes resolving". In the example we are arguing over here it's Jake Farrell's ability that gets interrupted by push the limit, which resolves(gets stressed) before he can take the free barrel roll action.

 

@godofcheese, good trolling, you had me right up until your last post.   

[Jehan Menasis 1,562]

Several people are telling you the correct procedure, and you keep dismissing their arguments, probably only because you don't like the answer.

 

The sequence from Klutz is correct, and the 'trolling' one of Godofchesse is also correct.

 

When the trigger for the 2nd card applies, you jump immediately to it without finishing the first, and if the 2nd cards triggers a 3rd, you jump immediately to it without finishing the second. That's how nested actions work.

 

Then, when you don't have any more triggered cards, you start finishing all the activated ones, in reverse order.

 

Thus, if you perform an action, you can immediately trigger push the limit, and since it is also action, it immediately triggers experimental interface. If Experimental Interface cannot trigger anything else, you begin to finish all activated effects, from the latest to the first. Experimental interface will give you one stress, and then Push the limit will give you another.

 

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that's how it works.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

@Klutz, the faq backs me up. It even states "After Push the Limit resolves, Expert Handling finishes resolving". In the example we are arguing over here it's Jake Farrell's ability that gets interrupted by push the limit, which resolves(gets stressed) before he can take the free barrel roll action.

@godofcheese, good trolling, you had me right up until your last post.

How is Jake's ability being interrupted by Push the Limit when the action granted by Push the Limit is what allowed Jake's ability to trigger?

Seriously man take your fingers out of your ears.

Edited March 22, 2015 by ScottieATF

[DR4CO 6,234]

@Klutz, the faq backs me up. It even states "After Push the Limit resolves, Expert Handling finishes resolving". In the example we are arguing over here it's Jake Farrell's ability that gets interrupted by push the limit, which resolves(gets stressed) before he can take the free barrel roll action.

 

Eh, no.

 

The FAQ says that you can use the barrel roll action contained within Expert Handling to trigger Push the Limit, and perform another action. Then, after PtL finishes resolving (ie. you do the action, get stress, etc), you go back to finish off Expert Handling -- which would give you another stress on the only ship which could actually equip both cards! If your logic were correct, the FAQ's example would be impossible.

 

Nesting effects is both possible and explicitly legal. Learn to live with it.

Edited March 22, 2015 by DR4CO

[Klutz 1,590]

I am eagerly awaiting ted1138's next response.

[godofcheese 456]

I am eagerly awaiting ted1138's next response.

 

Yep, need to know how I can troll him next, with my complete non-knowledge of how the rules work.