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Bipolar Potter

Dutch Vander, + Yavaris, + Adar Tallon

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So Dutch pretty much lets you shutdown opposing squadrons by toggling their slider when you damage them, or lets you stack additional damage on them if they've already been toggled.

Does anyone else think that the above combo is super strong? 3 attacks w/ 3 Blue dice, letting you either potentially shutdown 3 enemy squadrons, or maybe even instagib a named squadron you need to get rid off desperately (Howlrunner?)

Also its neat seeing as his ability represents the Y-wings as a heavy fighter, rather than a bomber or anti capital as Y's are usually thought of.

Also seeing as how with his high health and tokens, Dutch will probably be able to stick around for at least 2 turns tearing s#!t up.

To me, he's one of the breakout stars of the rebel fight corp already.

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I love love love this combo. It's one of my favorite trios in the game of the things we know are coming - and I've been working to ensure it has a home it with another of my favorite trios, the probably-not-super-viable triple Nebulon-B frigate list. Maybe if some list building threads pop up I'll write up my current iteration for some critique and advice.

 

But yeah, Dutch is the man.

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Then, Step 2. Follow up with Mr. Antillies...

 

Step 3. Profit?

 

This is actually presenting a problem in what I'm working on - mostly because I'm so unsure on how many squadrons should be brought along. At the heart of the issue, I am set on using Dutch to either lock down or punish enemy squadrons, but I'm torn between him as the star of a 6 squadron configuration that has a pair of A-wings or a 5 squadron configuration with Wedge.

 

I have Dutch, Y-wing, 2x X-wing and 2x A-wing

or

Dutch, Y-wing, Wedge Antilles, 2x X-wing

 

Is having a 6th squadron on the board and some speed and 'Counter' keywords for variation more of a game changer than Wedge Antilles wrecking Dutch's targets and having two additional squadron defense tokens to contend with? Who knows. How many fighter squadrons to use kind of mystifies me at the moment.

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Step 4: realize the error of your ways as your opponent brings triple vice and slaughters your caps:)

Jk I like this combo too, now I probly won't run it much since I am a devoted loyalist and will have a hard time not running star destroyers but it's still cool

Edited by clontroper5

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@Dusksong, I guess we won't really know what's more effective until we've all got a few games under our belts. For now it's just great theory crafting and having the rules while we wait for everything to ship.

 

@clontroper5, Do not underestimate the power of the Rebellion's fighters in anti-cap mode. With very little squadron defence the Vics will suffer the death of a thousand paper cuts while you try to chase down that last corvette... Of course, I hope the thousand paper cuts won't take a thousand turns as we'll only have six! ;)

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The first list i made with Fab's fleet builder was a Vic2 plus 2 Gladiators decked out, and then i realized i had pts left for a whopping 2 Tie Fighters, and all i could picture was B-wings and X-wings ripping my capitals to pieces as the nimbler rebels ran away. Needless to say we're back at the drawing board.

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Personally, don't think that it is that strong a combination as it is a huge points sink to stop some fighters. You need Vander to be flying with someone else othrewise the target fighters are just going to fly away. You are also going to have to use the squadron command every turn from a ship in range. Which means it is probably going to be getting shot at by the imperial ships.

 

We are yet to see if it is more cost effective to upgrade ships, take lots of squadrons, or just more ships. Personnally I will be trying out the no upgrade route for the imperials with a large fighter screen

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I think the combo might be better for reb vs reb or against tougher fighters.

 

It might make more sense for Vander + Yavaris+Tallon+Wedge, where Yavaris+Tallon+Wedge could on average take down 3 normal ties a turn on its own.

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31 Pts, if you don't count the cost of buying the actual Nebulon B, and the title works with another fighter, like Wedge as well for a finishing blow. And you do realize that Wedge only gets his buff against ACTIVATED squadrons, which oh hey, look what Dutch just did? Wombo Combo of Doom

So with Wedge, that's 50pts to guarantee 2 squadrons are getting destroyed a turn before they get to do anything.

Edited by Bipolar Potter

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Personally, don't think that it is that strong a combination as it is a huge points sink to stop some fighters. You need Vander to be flying with someone else othrewise the target fighters are just going to fly away. You are also going to have to use the squadron command every turn from a ship in range. Which means it is probably going to be getting shot at by the imperial ships.

 

We are yet to see if it is more cost effective to upgrade ships, take lots of squadrons, or just more ships. Personnally I will be trying out the no upgrade route for the imperials with a large fighter screen

 

The point of course is that Dutch's targets cannot fly away, or defend themselves for that matter, since he will prevent them from activating.  Combined with initiative, he could easily be the most dominant one-on-one fighter in the game.

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Personally, don't think that it is that strong a combination as it is a huge points sink to stop some fighters. You need Vander to be flying with someone else othrewise the target fighters are just going to fly away. You are also going to have to use the squadron command every turn from a ship in range. Which means it is probably going to be getting shot at by the imperial ships.

 

We are yet to see if it is more cost effective to upgrade ships, take lots of squadrons, or just more ships. Personnally I will be trying out the no upgrade route for the imperials with a large fighter screen

 

The point of course is that Dutch's targets cannot fly away, or defend themselves for that matter, since he will prevent them from activating.  Combined with initiative, he could easily be the most dominant one-on-one fighter in the game.

Except against intercepters since they can shoot back anyway...

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It would still be a dramatic reduction in the Interceptor abilities.  Instead of making a counter attack and a primary attack, they would lose their primary (and more powerful) attack and be unable to leave, which would leave them pretty severely disadvantaged against Dutch even in a dogfight.

Edited by KineticOperator

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Personally, don't think that it is that strong a combination as it is a huge points sink to stop some fighters. You need Vander to be flying with someone else othrewise the target fighters are just going to fly away. You are also going to have to use the squadron command every turn from a ship in range. Which means it is probably going to be getting shot at by the imperial ships.

 

We are yet to see if it is more cost effective to upgrade ships, take lots of squadrons, or just more ships. Personnally I will be trying out the no upgrade route for the imperials with a large fighter screen

 

The point of course is that Dutch's targets cannot fly away, or defend themselves for that matter, since he will prevent them from activating.  Combined with initiative, he could easily be the most dominant one-on-one fighter in the game.

Except against intercepters since they can shoot back anyway...

 

Oh so you'd rather take 4 dice attacks instead of 2 dice attacks?

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I’m not saying Dutch isn’t useful, but the question is whether or not he is useful in certain lists.

 

The game is about destroying enemy ships.

 

Frigate+Tallon+Yavaris+Dutch+Iblis/Dodonna=107 or 113 points depending on which frigate(you will want the more expensive one to maximize Yavaris).

 

On its own this 107-113 point investment is no match an equivalent point value of Imperial ships and fighters, so it will need help. If you have enough ships that it will offset the Yavaris’ weakness then fighters matter less and Dutch would be a good choice.

 

However, if your rebel fleet requires bombers to bring down ships, then I’m not so sure how effective Dutch will be. A bomber strategy is all about getting bombers to through as many anti-ship dice as possible.

 

Remember squadrons that are engaged cannot move. So an Imperial player may be wise to avoid activating their fighters once they are engaged, especially if they are interceptors. The Imperials should be best off keeping the rebel bombers tied up as long as possible while the Imperial ships close on Yavaris and company.

 

In this case, Dutch does not benefit from being more survivable since escort ships must be destroyed first. If the enemy does not activate their fighters once engaged, then Dutch is basically an over-costed X-wing. When compared to a generic B-wing, it has 1 more anti-fighter dice(assuming no activation) but half the anti-ship firepower while still more expensive.

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Except that the game is NOT about destroying ships. Destroying ships is part of the game, but the game is about getting more victory points than your opponent. Look at the objectives. That attitude will cost you heavily the first time an opponent fakes you out by making you chase his flagship while some lowly corvette caps an objective.


The above Dutch combo can lockdown 3 Bombers, or B-wings for that matter, from hammering your capital ship, even if you would be unable to kill them by standard means in a single turn.

Edited by Bipolar Potter

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Remember squadrons that are engaged cannot move. So an Imperial player may be wise to avoid activating their fighters once they are engaged, especially if they are interceptors. The Imperials should be best off keeping the rebel bombers tied up as long as possible while the Imperial ships close on Yavaris and company.

 

In this case, Dutch does not benefit from being more survivable since escort ships must be destroyed first. If the enemy does not activate their fighters once engaged, then Dutch is basically an over-costed X-wing. When compared to a generic B-wing, it has 1 more anti-fighter dice(assuming no activation) but half the anti-ship firepower while still more expensive.

 

But in your same example, if the enemy fighter screen is attempting to tie up the bombers you are trying to deliver to a capital ship target, wouldn't you benefit from the really excellent dogfighter that is Dutch while everyone is engaged? And if he survives the melee he can still utilize his bomber keyword against the capital ship with your other bombers. Yavaris and Adar could benefit the rest of the fighters stuck in the engagement as well to gain the upper hand, so they are great with Dutch but not exclusively great with Dutch.

Edited by Dusksong

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There is going to be a lot of tactical decision in what order to activate your ships and squadrons. Activate early have no shots, activate last you might be dead. Choose one of those options and you could set up a devastating strike with something else. Gonna be fun.

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