Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
edegil

Autothrusters and Firing Arcs

Recommended Posts

hi guys

 

once again I turn to you in hope of some help in a question about some rules.

it's about the autothrusters and the auxiliary firing arc of the firespray

for outmaneuvered it's specified like this

 

3wv1Dj4.jpg

 

UYSJsdg.jpg

 

so...on the autothrusters it says:

 

A3vVw4E.jpg

 

for me it is clear...if you are in the auxiliary firing arc autothrusters doesn't kick in because there are similar circumstances

ergo autothrusters only works if you are attacked in range 3 or by a turrent and you're not in it's firing arc.

 

What do you think?

A friend of mine says autothrusters also works in the auxiliary firing arc...

 

Does anyone know when the next faq's should be published?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have it right and your friend has it wrong; Autothrusters do not work if you're inside the Firespray's auxiliary firing arc at range 1 or 2, and only work against a turret if you don't have any part of your base inside the ship's printed firing arc(even if the shot, closest to closest point, is being made outside the arc). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The auxiliary firing arc on the Firespray is still a firing arc,, therefore a ship within the aux arc would need to be beyond range 2 for Autothrusters to activate

 

note that for a ship to be considered as out of arc, ALL of it's ship base must be out of the firing arc of the attacking ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question on that image. Let's say you back that Interceptor up. Conceivably, it could end in a position where it just has a range-3 shot at the YT-2400. If the angles remained the same, that upper-left corner of the squint would be beyond range 3. However, it would technically still be within arc of the YT-2400, right? So Autothrusters still wouldn't work. However, since standard rulers only measure to range 3, it would be extremely difficult to convince anyone that the squint truly is in arc since the ruler doesn't reach. In a tournament setting, what do you do? Make sure you bring your epic range ruler? Call the TO?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question on that image. Let's say you back that Interceptor up. Conceivably, it could end in a position where it just has a range-3 shot at the YT-2400. If the angles remained the same, that upper-left corner of the squint would be beyond range 3. However, it would technically still be within arc of the YT-2400, right? So Autothrusters still wouldn't work. However, since standard rulers only measure to range 3, it would be extremely difficult to convince anyone that the squint truly is in arc since the ruler doesn't reach. In a tournament setting, what do you do? Make sure you bring your epic range ruler? Call the TO?

 

Your arc ends at range 3. If you are past range 3, you are out of arc.

 

Edit: **** ninjas.  :ph34r:

 

 

Edit2: I stand corrected.

Edited by Klutz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, firing arc has to extend beyond range 3 because there are range 5 weapons, so the target would still be in arc. However, autothrusters doesn't require range 3, it requires beyond range 2, so AT would still work.

 

Well, in that case, we could look at Outmaneuver.

 

A TIE Interceptor is attacking a Defender.

The TIE Interceptor is at range 3 of the defender mostly out of his arc, but part of the TIE Interceptor's base is in the Defender's arc, at range 4.

 

Outmaneuver would therefore NOT trigger, since the Interceptor is considered to be inside the Defender's arc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, firing arc has to extend beyond range 3 because there are range 5 weapons, so the target would still be in arc. However, autothrusters doesn't require range 3, it requires beyond range 2, so AT would still work.

 

Well, in that case, we could look at Outmaneuver.

 

A TIE Interceptor is attacking a Defender.

The TIE Interceptor is at range 3 of the defender mostly out of his arc, but part of the TIE Interceptor's base is in the Defender's arc, at range 4.

 

Outmaneuver would therefore NOT trigger, since the Interceptor is considered to be inside the Defender's arc.

Correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a visual representation:

 

vqWDnnd.jpg

I have a question on this extremely nice and visual example here. I may have misinterpreted this when it first came up or may be remembering wrong so this is just for clarification. I thought the range to see if tactician kicked in had to be measured in arc even if your attack takes place out of arc. I thought I remembered that the consensus was that the trigger for tactician was that you had to be in arc so you would measure the range for it seperate than the range for attack. Thanks for the clarification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ this

After posting I got the FAQ out and read back through, I remember when this came out and there were disputes about it. I must have been remembering the wrong side of the argument, thanks for posting this, I have been thinking it was the other way, good thing I don't put tacticians on my turrets. Again thanks for pointing that out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've got the same discussion going in 2 different threads again :P

 

So I'll just quote myself    :ph34r: 

 

And I went and found the response from Frank...
 
Originally (I think) posted here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/121537-turrets-outmaneuver-and-tactician/?p=1255616
 
Quoted here for simplicity...

Hello Sergovan,
 
In response to your rules question:
Rule Question:
How does a YT-1300, with a ship in arc at range 2 and out of arc at range 1 (with closest point to closest point being at range 1) resolve Tactician and Outmaneuver.
 
Please see thread "Turrets, Outmaneuver, and Tactician".
 
The issue arrises from Tactician itself since the initial clause is a bit ambiguous (“After you perform an attack against a ship inside your firing arc at Range 2”). It is unclear whether the attack needed to be inside of your firing arc, whether the attack needed to be at Range 2, simply the ship attacked needs to be both at Range 2 and inside your firing arc, or something else entirely. The intention is that the attack performed was a not at Range 1 or Range 3 but explicitly Range 2 and that that ship was inside of the attacker’s firing arc.
 
Therefore, to answer your question: if a YT-1300 equipped with Tactician and Outmaneuver is attacks an enemy ship at Range 2 (when measured inside of the firing arc) and at Range 1 (when measured closest point to closest point, not inside the firing arc), Tactician would not trigger and Outmaneuver could trigger (so long as the YT-1300 is outside of the defender’s firing arc).
 
You may treat Tactician as though it said “After you perform an attack against an enemy ship at Range 2, if that ship was inside your firing arc, it receives 1 stress token."
 
This is reverting my previous reasoning for my answer to Tactician although keeps mostly the same resolution. In fact, it removes an artifact from the previous ruling. This means that for a YT-1300 equipped with Tactician and Outmaneuver that is attacking a ship that is at Range 2 and straddling the firing arc, Tactician would still trigger (even if the closest point to closest point is drawn outside of the firing arc) and Outmaneuver could still trigger. With the previous ruling, it actually “punished” turret primary weapon ships for having this setup since another ship in the exact same situation would have been able to use both abilities.
 
Thanks for asking,
 
Frank Brooks
Associate Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

 

This is where the answer is made unambiguous:

 

 

Therefore, to answer your question: if a YT-1300 equipped with Tactician and Outmaneuver is attacks an enemy ship at Range 2 (when measured inside of the firing arc) and at Range 1 (when measured closest point to closest point, not inside the firing arc), Tactician would not trigger and Outmaneuver could trigger (so long as the YT-1300 is outside of the defender’s firing arc).

 

Here's the situation he's describing:

ABbv8DM.jpg

 

By Frank's ruling, the Defender is considered in arc (Outmaneuver triggers), and at range 1 (Tactician doesn't trigger).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just when I think I understand, there is an update to the FAQ which confuses it even more more me.  Does this mean that Autothrusters does not trigger for a primary firing arch (at any range) and only within range 1-2 for an auxiliary firing arch? Or should it read "inside the attacker’s primary at Range 1-2 or auxiliary firing arc at Range 1–2."

 

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/21/ca/21cae07a-6fe7-49df-9773-41b440fa876c/x-wing-faq-low-res.pdf

 

Autothrusters does not trigger if the ship equipped with Autothrusters is inside the attacker’s primary or auxiliary firing arc at Range 1–2.

 

If a ship with a turret weapon attacks a ship equipped with Autothrusters, first measure closest point to closest point to determine range, then use the printed firing arc on the attacker to determine whether the defender is in the attacker’s firing arc. 

Edited by SuperTacticalDroid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No.  The 2 paragraphs refer to 2 separate situations.

 

1) Ship with an auxiliary firing arc (eg Firespray) - Autothrusters'd ship cannot trigger it if it is at Range 1-2 in either the primary arc or auxiliary arc.

 

2) Ship with a turret weapon - See Klutz's illustrations, they're great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry I re-phased my question.  But I think I got it.  Rage 1-2 applies to both primary and secondary arcs.  

 

Whenever an ability mentions a "firing arc", that includes both primary firing arcs and auxiliary firing arc.

There are only a few places that refer to "primary firing arcs" specifically (notably, the rules for firing cannons, missiles and torpedoes).

 

The Firespray is the only ship to have an auxiliary firing arc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...