Store Championship is limiting participation

[DagobahDave 1,621]

There's a Store Championship in my area that has a 16 player limit, presumably because of gaming space. Also, they gave their store league members a couple of days to pre-register before allowing anyone else to.

I can't find anything in the SC literature that forbids that sort of thing, but it doesn't seem right. Could you cap it at 12 players? 6 players? Could you just prohibit non-league players from attending entirely?

I saw the application form for SCs this year and one of the questions was about how many players the venue could accommodate. I'm surprised FFG approved this particular store's application if the store answered honestly about its capacity, considering the number of prizes in the kit.

However, they are "store championships" and maybe it's totally in the spirit of the event to do something like reward a store's league players with early exclusive access to them. But it kind of feels like favoritism, and it could be taken to extremes. I wish I knew what FFG intended.

Edited March 15, 2015 by DagobahDave

[ScottieATF 2,864]

I see no problem with a venue being realistic with how they can properly run thier event. Better that then running it improperly to fit it in.

Being given a SC is as simple as asking for one in pretty much all cases.

Edited March 15, 2015 by ScottieATF

[DagobahDave 1,621]

So no issue with the early registration available to league members only?

[ScottieATF 2,864]

None. It's a Store Championship, acknowledging logistical concerns and ensuring that the store players have the opprunity to attend a store level event is sensible.

Edited March 15, 2015 by ScottieATF

[SmartCookie 1,252]

I actually wrote directly to FFG organized play about this as I am organzing two local Store Championships for the "same" store. It is actually two different stores in neighbouring cities but the same chain.

In the big store we could have 28 players and there were no problems.

In the small store we could have 8 players and asked FFG if we could let the local players get a short window to reserve spots before everyone else.

They answered that they don't like that you have a "closed" tournamnet but with the limited space they were fine with it as long as only a few spots were "reserved" for the local loyal player base it was OK. Which is what we ended up doing.

I have no ties to the stores except that I play X-Wing there (and organize it within the local X-Wing group).

[ScottieATF 2,864]

You can bet some Regionals will be capping attendance.

[PhantomFO 8,979]

Meh. It makes sense for store championships to make sure they can actually fit people in the store, especially with a game that requires over nine square feet of space per game.

It's a store championship. You are fighting to be the champion of that store.

[DagobahDave 1,621]

So, hypothetically, it should be fine to set up my store's next SC so that only 8 players can attend, and I can reserve all of those spots for my friends (er, league), yes?

[Wayne Argabright 1,544]

why not particularly if they are the ones supporting the store at all the other times. just me personally but i would have more of a problem with the folks that like to swoop in from other areas that have their own store championships on different dates just so that they have a greater chance of winning a store championship even though the ONLY game in that store they have played IS the store championship...  perhaps a prerequisite in order to sign up for the store championship you would have to play in an FFG OP before the championship or even a casual game at said store? but I really don't see a problem with rewarding store loyalty. but OTOH what about folks that don't have a LGS but I digress.Still think there should be a way to allow them to get FFG OPS kits. particularly folks at military bases. but i am a bit biased..lol  

Edited March 15, 2015 by Swedge

[Marinealver 8,068]

IMHO using the league as a way of limiting the store participants if an effective use of the league if the store is so limited on space time and other resources.

 

To be honest 16 players you could say make it so that the championship is for the top 16 league players. On the last league match you could call it a qualification day where match wins (not modified match wins) are worth double or bonus points so that say a competitive player does not have to attend every match but those that win both their matches in the last league night with their most competitive builds can earn a spot.

[IG88E 1,688]

Sorry, but if the space is too small to run a bigger tournament, then the store should go and find a bigger room for the tournament. This is done in many areas.

 

It should also be in the interest of the store to have high accessibility to benefit from additional promotion. It is unexplainable for me that there are stores that does not make the effort to find an appropriate room so that everybody can/could participate

Edited March 15, 2015 by IG88E

[Keffisch 2,642]

There's also the local fire regulations to take into consideration.

[pizzaguardian 189]

Sorry, but if the space is too small to run a bigger tournament, then the store should go and find a bigger room for the tournament. This is done in many areas.

 

It should also be in the interest of the store to have high accessibility to benefit from additional promotion. It is unexplainable for me that there are stores that does not make the effort to find an appropriate room so that everybody can/could participate

You can go and help them i presume? You know since gettinre bigger space is too easy

It is obviously in best interest for a store to have more customers , but just beacuse you have 64 players to attend a tournament there is obligation to accomodate all of them. I am not even touching Logistics likr tables, bathroom, refree s and such.

[nikk whyte 3,868]

I personally am super turned off by LGS when they cap events, or have weird time obligations.

You knew what you signed up for, and you should stick to it. Once you break a certain point in attendance, the store is earning free money from players, not to mention any other services they may provide. You don't want my business? Fine.

[Marinealver 8,068]

Sorry, but if the space is too small to run a bigger tournament, then the store should go and find a bigger room for the tournament. This is done in many areas.

 

It should also be in the interest of the store to have high accessibility to benefit from additional promotion. It is unexplainable for me that there are stores that does not make the effort to find an appropriate room so that everybody can/could participate

 

Well first a store need to make sustainable profits, in other words make money without spending all of it first. Now there is something to be said about expansion and profits but you need to have controllable expansion. If you expanded too fast then there will be a correction and the profits will end up imploding after the feast (and take the store with it if not careful).

 

Now I will admit that 6 or 12 does seem a little small but I have seen tournaments that had only 5 players at the time. Lately though it has become the opposite problem (as expected as this game picks up popularity). Still the last tournament the local store I frequented had decided to cap it at 24 players for the same reasons and they started the pre-registering for the event as well.

 

Besides these are local store tournaments there are other stores and it is not like regionals or gencon which has a whole stadium/convention center to organize the events and have plenty of tables to play. So you do have options if the local store you frequent happens to be too small.

[shakedown47 86]

Are the people complaining about capped attendance just trolling? "You knew what you signed up for..." So, if my local shop can fit 32 people but 98 register, they are obligated to move it to a union hall or hotel ballroom? I call BS. I think you're getting Store Championships confused with Regionals and Nationals.

 

These are Store Championships, people, let's please stop pretending they're in any way something to get bent out of shape over. DagobahDave, I don't want to pick on you or sound harsh but your last post just sounded childish. No, it would not be fine if you set up a store championship intentionally limiting attendance to 8 of your friends and league mates; however, of course it would be more than reasonable if, in setting up a store championship, the venue available to you could only accommodate 8 people and you went to some lengths to make sure the regular attendees of that venue didn't get shut out.

 

This kind of thing is why people in customer service have so much of my sympathy and support, especially when it comes to things nerds get passionate about. My personal opinion: you weren't wronged. And, if I'm incorrect and you were wronged, I can't think of any reason why you'd spend even a few minutes of your life pissed off about it, let alone take the time to make a thread about what you perceive as shenanigans over the most inconsequential form of organized play. YMMV of course. 

[PewPewPew 1,083]

If the store is only so big, it's only so big. There's nothing that can be done about it.

It's nice to say"just get a bigger venue" but thats a big investment for an additional ten, twenty people?

[ScottieATF 2,864]

why not particularly if they are the ones supporting the store at all the other times. just me personally but i would have more of a problem with the folks that like to swoop in from other areas that have their own store championships on different dates just so that they have a greater chance of winning a store championship even though the ONLY game in that store they have played IS the store championship...  perhaps a prerequisite in order to sign up for the store championship you would have to play in an FFG OP before the championship or even a casual game at said store? but I really don't see a problem with rewarding store loyalty. but OTOH what about folks that don't have a LGS but I digress.Still think there should be a way to allow them to get FFG OPS kits. particularly folks at military bases. but i am a bit biased..lol

I think this concept is just as silly as the people in this thread expecting a venue to rent out a hall for a Store Championship.

[ScottieATF 2,864]

So, hypothetically, it should be fine to set up my store's next SC so that only 8 players can attend, and I can reserve all of those spots for my friends (er, league), yes?

No, that is not the same thing as a store acknowledging they can't hold an open ended tournament, capping attendance to a point they can manage, then giving thier locals some advanced opportunity to register before opening it up for others.

[ScottieATF 2,864]

Sorry, but if the space is too small to run a bigger tournament, then the store should go and find a bigger room for the tournament. This is done in many areas.

 

It should also be in the interest of the store to have high accessibility to benefit from additional promotion. It is unexplainable for me that there are stores that does not make the effort to find an appropriate room so that everybody can/could participate

You know that things cost money correct?

[DagobahDave 1,621]

I totally understand player caps because of space limitations. I do think if your space is so small that you can't accommodate more than 10 players or so, you probably shouldn't even apply for an SC. But the space limitation by itself isn't what bothers me.

The combination of a fairly low player cap plus exclusive early access to registration for certain players is what I'm asking about. If there are 16 league members and a 16 player cap, that's potentially an event that is not open to the public. New players or those who have to travel considerable distance to their nearest SC could be shut out of a cool opportunity.

Fortunately, in my case, there were/are three other SCs within two hours of me.

But if store X can do what I've described, how far can it be pushed? My local league has about 14 players. If there's nothing else going on in the store at the same time, we can fit 24 players. But if there's anything else going on that day, we would have to limit attendance even further, maybe as few as 10 or 12.

My hypothetical "friends only" SC is extreme, but what's to actually stop a store from doing that? Personally, it wouldn't feel right to offer first pick of all of those spots to league players, no matter how loyal they are to the store, but maybe I shouldn't care.

If I'm in the minority for being bothered by this sort of thing, I won't let it bother me anymore. And next year, if our store gets to host an SC, I'll consider doing something similar to the store in question. That would mean that one of our league players is more likely to win it. So far, some of you seem to feel that that's fine.

Edited March 15, 2015 by DagobahDave

[Lord_Squinty 40]

I'm totally behind store regulars getting a few days to prepurchase tickets. They are the ones that support that store and ensure it exists to have a tournament.

You wouldn't be raging if you're local store, where you paid to play every week said "sorry, no space for you to attend, all the tickets got snapped up by out of Towner's we've never seen before"

Also, if a store can only hold 8 or even 16 nowadays, FFG should not be giving them championships in the first place.

[AtomicFryingPan 1,825]

I think it leaves a bad taste and think some stores don't advertise or have a tiny player cap just so they're normal players get the prizes. Honestly in my opinion if you can't accommodate at least 24 players you shouldn't get one. If a store told me they are only having 10 spots and therethere guys get first pick at present registering then I'd just write that store off and not give them your money.

[Lord_Squinty 40]

Not give them your money?

That's kinda the point.

Those guys that are getting places prebooked ARE giving the store money.

I buy all my x-wing (and all the other games and boardgames I play) through my local store. I also pay to play on his tables.

Sorry, but from the store's perspective its pure common sense.

Piss off some stranger who would give you cash and buy the odd drink or snack for one day or piss of the regulars who make the till ring?

That's a no brainer

But again,that's not really the issue. It's FFGs fault for giving it to stores who don't have the resources to handle it.

If you're reserving 10 spots for regulars in a store that could hold 40 or even more then there's still room for 30 travellers.

Reserving 10 in a store that could only hold 10 is the problem.

BTW, I haven't had a reserved apace, our store can hold 60+ so its not been an issue.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Lord_Squinty

[Hockeyzombie 617]

Why are people saying FFG should demand a minimum number of players? Or more accurately, a minimum number of players that could be supported. If a store wants to do a tournament with 12 people that's their business. Why do you care if it's a small tournament?