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Carpatheon

The Noble X-wing doesn't need help

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Point reduction is a really boring solution.

 

5 X-wings isn't a problem, what's a problem is that the already overlooked Red Squadron Pilot would be basically only useful for fire starting kindling.

 

Nobody would take 4 ps 4 guys over 5 ps 1 guys.

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While I agree that straight point reduction is a boring solution, making the Rookie viable at the expense of Red Squadron is fine. Nobody flies Red anyway at this point.

As an off the wall idea, what if the X-Wing receives a mod or title that prevents opponents from receiving an extra green die at R3. This turns them into masters of the slow crawl, in opposition to the knife fighting B-Wing, the tanky Y, or the intercepting A. 

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While I agree that straight point reduction is a boring solution, making the Rookie viable at the expense of Red Squadron is fine. Nobody flies Red anyway at this point.

As an off the wall idea, what if the X-Wing receives a mod or title that prevents opponents from receiving an extra green die at R3. This turns them into masters of the slow crawl, in opposition to the knife fighting B-Wing, the tanky Y, or the intercepting A.

Interesting idea and has been suggested earlier IIRC. However with X as inflexible as it is movement wise, there would be very limited opportunity to exploit the R3 band. Bs can slow crawl better with the same dice a BR action and a cannon slot as well as FCS. We're coming up against the same X vs B issue. Edited by phocion

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My apologies; I didn't realize that it had come up earlier.

Good point re: BR and the B, though the X's damage potential would potentially even it out. Additionally, the FCS + Cannon option IS superior, but starts to add up the points (9 in the most common variant). A free title to help out wouldn't need to equal that, just to be enough of an edge to help make up 1-2 points. A single shot could be enough to earn back the difference, it wouldn't need to be every round.

 

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Really its the Phantom that needs help.  4 (5 range 1) attack and 5 evade dice with ACD/Stealth really isn't enough.  We can only hope the next Imperial Aces includes a buffed Echo to compensate.

Edited by Tokyogriz

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It does feel like the X-wing has been left in the dust with subsequent ships and expanded gameplay elements (had it been released now, it would probably get a systems slot), but it already has a healthy amount of pilots (8 named) and astromechs (12), with a dizzying array of abilities (from general to situational). No sense in chucking more pilots at the problem.

 

FFG have made good use out of titles/restricted mods to buff other ships, e.g. to give the Interceptor double modification slots for free, to give the A-wing double EPTs for free, to give the TIE Advanced a heavily discounted systems slot, to give the Y-wing an inventive unique ability to fire twice, to give the B-wing a crew slot. There have been a few misteps, I thought R2-D6 was too much of a sacrifice of the valuable droid slot for it to be worthwhile to add that EPT, and the Chardaan refit was a poor choice since it makes already expensive missiles even more so (on a ship which is offensively weak).

 

FFG will probably come up with some inventive solution. I'm a big fan of theme. X-wings and rebels are about working together as a team, so I'd like to see a title like "Rogue Leader", which specifically helps other X-wing ships - maybe along the lines of a defense re-roll for all X-wing friendlies in range 1 (a defensive Howlrunner if you will).

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My apologies; I didn't realize that it had come up earlier.

Good point re: BR and the B, though the X's damage potential would potentially even it out. Additionally, the FCS + Cannon option IS superior, but starts to add up the points (9 in the most common variant). A free title to help out wouldn't need to equal that, just to be enough of an edge to help make up 1-2 points. A single shot could be enough to earn back the difference, it wouldn't need to be every round.

 

 

I can never remember everything in these threads either.  This one is a bit of a monster :blink:

 

You got me thinking (yes it hurts :huh: ):  What might combine well with what you just suggested is what I am now going to call SlowCrawlBot :P .  The droid idea I posted a few pages back.  Gives the ability to perform a free BR action when executing a green move.  That would assist with a title which granted the same R3 effect. 

 

Its a 2 part solution, but it could work. 

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This thread is huge, so I have no idea if this has been stated before, but IF the X-Wing needs fixing (not a hypothesis I immediately agree with), I have 3 ideas:

1) T-65B title: 0 points, -3 cost to a modification

2) Rogue Squadron Pilot: PS 7-8 generic with EPT, 25 points

3) Rogue Squadron Pilot (as above), but using IG-88 as an idea, have this for a pilot ability:

You have the Elite Pilot Talent of each other friendly Rogue Squadron Pilot (in addition to your own Elite Pilot Talent)

Point cost: I have no idea. 28 seems fair I think? A combination of the title and second rogue squadron pilot could give you the following:

Rogue Squadron Pilot, T-65B, Engine Upgrade, R2 Astromech, Veterin Instincts

Rogue Squadron Pilot, T-65B, Engine Upgrade, R2 Astromech, Push the Limit

Rogue Squadron Pilot, T-65B, Engine Upgrade, R2 Astromech, Predator

For just under 100 points. Too much, or just right?

Edited by FatherTurin

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So each pilot has all three of the VI, PTL and Predator EPTs in that 3 Rogue pilot list?

 

I love how that rewards flying more than one and effectively only works when you stick the title on more than one X-wing, but it has the potential to be abused, especially given the EPTs that we have now or may have in the future (we're already seeing power creep with Calculation vs Marksmanship and Outmaneuver/Predator vs Expose). For example, two X-wings both using PTL and Wingman would get two actions each then cancel out the stress from each other at the start of combat.

 

Stick a range limit on it though and it might work.

 

The T-65B -3 reduction title sounds pretty good too.

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How about this, Linked Fire: X-wing only, must be PS4+ If an attack hits, roll two attack die. Defender suffers additional hits and crits rolled. These die cannot be modified.

How does that help the PS 2 rookie X Wings? They need at least as much help, if not more as as named or higher PS pilots.

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By the way (rather than start a new thread), Wedge Antilles won't be in Episode VII unless they hire a new actor. 
 

One of Star Wars' best pilots won't be returning in Episode VII. Denis Lawson, who played Rebel ace Wedge Antilles in the original trilogy, has confirmed that he turned down the chance to return in the upcoming Star Wars sequel. 


http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/12/5711780/star-wars-episode-7-wont-feature-wedge-antilles-actor

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OK here's my idea for the x wing fix.

Title card, t65b. If you equip a mod uprade, it's squad point cost is reduced by 3 to a minimum of zero.

Also coming with the title is the quad linked lasers modification. This costs 7 points, is x wing only and let's you increase your primary attack value by 1.

So now you have your x wings costing the same but now you can modify them to your play style making them the multi role fighter they're supposed to be. For 0 points you can just plunk on a hulk for some added hull. Also you could throw on a stealth but I think hull would be more popular.

For 1 point you can add a shield making you a bit tanker and more crit resistant. For 1 point you could add boost to make your higher ps ships dodge arc or reposition to give them an arc on a slippery opponent.

Then for 3 points, yes 3 points you get 4 attack dice. That means you could field 4 rookies each with 4 attack dice. But here's the thing it's they lose out on a ton of survivability. They are incredibly easy to dodge and don't last as long as b wings.

Now honestly me with my play style I'd give generics the free hull and my high ps guys the 1 point engine upgrade. But the thing is it makes the x wing customizable and gives it tons of options. There is no way a non cloaking 4 dice x wing is more op then a acd phantom with 4 dice. So this gives the players options to how they want to run there x wings and makes them more cost effective.

Honestly this should come in a rogue squadron pack that comes with an art x wing and a ps 5 rogue or wraith squadron genric with an ept at 24 points.

Also a cool x wing only rogue leader ept that some how benefits either just x wings or other friendly ships at range 1 with a lower ps. Something like friendly x wings at range 1 can turn 1 blank into an eye ball. Offense or defense. Like I said this is just work in progress.

But again this here is how I think x wing gets a niche and won't be over shadowed by the other ships in the rebel fleet

 

The quad idea is something I am doing for TIE Defenders too. I mean these ships have four (X-Wing) and six (Defender) cannons on them. They should have four attacks, or three attacks with an auto Crit...

:)

 

The only reason the TIE Phantom has four attack is to make up for spending a lot of it's game time in cloak.

:rolleyes:

 

The TIE Defender needs to blow up stuff good, like the demon it is, and without buying a seven point or three point cannon on top of the thirty points... wowzers!

 

Also being crazy... you could say that the wonderful TIE Interceptor could get that quad deal just like the good ole X-Wing... but the Empire would not spend the extra cash on them, unless we are going with the Royals.

:D

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Much as I like the quad fire mod above as a ref to the old xwing PC game it is a little powerful.  A 4 att mod will give 5 at range 1, almost an auto 1 shot on a TIE due to the fickle nature of the green dice.  Perhaps give the quad link shot a time limit.  If quad linked fire is used the ship can't attack with its primary weapon in the following round.  This would also recreate the recharge time from the PC game.  

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Why would improved fire-power mean +1 red die?

It could be some other sort of fire-power efficiency.

 

Someone mentioned no additional green die at range 3 for example.

Many ways to improve 'shot efficiency' without going the blunt +1 red die really.

No additional green dice at Range 3, treat Range 2 as Range 1, change a blank result to a focus, change a focus result to a hit, reduce your Attack value by 1 and make two attacks... there's a very long list of options that's more interesting and less unbalancing than +1 Attack, if FFG decided to go that direction.

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Why would improved fire-power mean +1 red die?

It could be some other sort of fire-power efficiency.

 

Someone mentioned no additional green die at range 3 for example.

Many ways to improve 'shot efficiency' without going the blunt +1 red die really.

No additional green dice at Range 3, treat Range 2 as Range 1, change a blank result to a focus, change a focus result to a hit, reduce your Attack value by 1 and make two attacks... there's a very long list of options that's more interesting and less unbalancing than +1 Attack, if FFG decided to go that direction.

 

 

My thoughts erxactly. Albeit in a more eloquent manner. :)

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Tonight I flew four X-wings, Garven and two Reds with R2s, and Tarn with R7, and tore apart Scum Boba and IG. It was crazy fun, a good dogfighting match, and I only lost both shields and a hull from one of the Reds. Definitely trying this list again. Flew mostly in two groups of two until 'roids broke apart the Red formation. X-wing is still a viable craft and it was fun to go old-school tonight.

Hope the share is okay... Some sublime joy in goobering over FFG forums in a pub at midnight.

Edited by stuffedskullcat

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Plenty of people won with Interceptors or Darth Vader, but that doesn't mean they didn't need upgrades. Anecdotes don't really prove anything.

 

Some here are basing the X-Wing being so bad based solely on whether and how often they appear in Tournament results.  An environment which encourages using only the most top-notch squads.  By its very design this will push out even marginally weaker squads if everything else is balanced/level.  This same method has shown far more other ship with even fewer appearances and even the rebels as a whole beating the empire nearly 2:1.  I have pointed out that using this method how unbalanced the TIE Interceptor is/was since Alpha and Avenger pilots are nearly never seen.

 

Others use math based almost solely on merge values that doesn't account for either synergies or the pilots abilities.

 

Also are we assuming that all pilots of a given ship need to see time equally?  Should a X-Wing Rookie see as much play time as Biggs or an Alpha see as much time as Soontir?  And that FFG can balance a game so well, without breaking it, that we need to fix everything continuously until a naked Roark Garnet can  compete against X-Wings and TIE Defenders?

 

So what is a good measure?

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