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KineticOperator

Rogue One

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Funny thing: the part of Ripley in Alien was written for a guy. But then Sigourney Weaver was awesome, so they changed the pronouns, and an awesome movie got made. Turns out that you pretty much _can_ put a woman into any role.

Also... I've seen more Ewoks than I've seen female pilots. That seems like a problem that needs fixing. I'm not sure why we're even debating if it is a problem.

Always remember: Leia murdered Jabba with the chains the patriarchy put her in. That's a lesson worth learning.

(PS: Social Justice Rogue here. Behind you. With my dagger of plus 5 justice.)

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I really just hope we get Star Wars flavored top gun

This is basically all I've ever wanted. I like Jedi just fine, but I'm over them. I've always been more into the spaceships and dogfighting than I ever was about the Force.

As to the debate going on with the rest of the thread, I will never understand why people say "social justice warrior" like that's somehow a bad thing.  You know who commonly fights for social justice? 

 

 

The Rebellion.

 

Wonder Woman.

Superman.

 

Captain America.

 

 

...You know, heroes.

 

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I was hoping that the first spin off would be either Han Solo's back story (because there is a good story there) or Boba Fett after he crawls out of the Sarlac pit.

 

With Han's story, it could tell his days as an imperial officer, how he hated it, saves Chewy to earn his life debt, win the Falcon from Lando, and cause the event that has Lando so mad at Han when they see each other again on Bespin.

 

With Boba's story, you get the developments after ROTJ, the power fallout after Jabba's death, the Empires downfall and breakup, Boba's life amongst the other mercenaries and story elements that lead into a Force Awakens as tie-ins. 

 

With Rogue One, I'm more worried about what the plot is going to talk about. It could fall into the Action movie trap depending on how they script it, which has its concerns. I wonder what the story will develop or add. What time period will it be set in? If it culminates in the Battle of Yavin, then the ending is already known and will be anti-climactic and have less of an impact.

 

I'm just a little disappointed as it it the weakest plot of the 3 possible spin off movies. I could be wrong and they could do a bang up job.

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The soldiers of the Rebellion are mostly motivated by revenge against Imperial atrocities, and the leadership a rose-tinted, revanchist longing to return to the inherently inefficient chaos of the Old Republic where they, the senators, had the power. 

 

Wonder Woman is a golem 'Ambassador' from a matriarchy literally fighting the patriarchy, deluded into thinking she's a human woman fighting for women's rights. 

 

Superman is an alien illegal immigrant enforcing his parochial, small-town American values on society through the use of demigodlike power, also deluded into thinking he's a human fighting for human rights,.  

 

Captain America is a patsy of the military-industrial complex and an outdated symbol of jingoistic nationalism, and slavish devotion to an outdated idea. 

 

They don't fight for social justice- they are enforcers of (or nostalgists for) the status quo. 

Edited by Darth Ruin

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Captain America is a patsy of the military-industrial complex and an outdated symbol of jingoistic nationalism, and slavish devotion to an outdated idea. 

 

They don't fight for social justice- they are enforcers of (or nostalgists for) the status quo. 

Yeah that is totally apparent in Winter Soldier where he.... wait I got it.... Blows up some Helicarriors so Shield can pay to buy more.... maybe?

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Oh, and speaking of strong female characters, apparently the lead in Scandal is touted as a strong woman, but after a season or so of seeing her whimper whenever the president walked up I was done with that. 

 

She couldn't hold a candle to (most of) the women of The Good Wife, Gina Torres in Suits, and a whole host of others I could name. But there, too, it is the story that dictates the character.

 

I think that we have to specify "strong" female character is wholly indicative of the problem.

 

I think the problem is deeper than gender bias - why do male "heroes" have be the stereotypical "strong" type either?  Rather than cast women into exactly the same cliché, I'd rather do away with it entirely.

Edited by mazz0

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Oh, and speaking of strong female characters, apparently the lead in Scandal is touted as a strong woman, but after a season or so of seeing her whimper whenever the president walked up I was done with that. 

 

She couldn't hold a candle to (most of) the women of The Good Wife, Gina Torres in Suits, and a whole host of others I could name. But there, too, it is the story that dictates the character.

 

I think that we have to specify "strong" female character is wholly indicative of the problem.

 

I think the problem is deeper than gender bias - why do male "heroes" have be the stereotypical "strong" type either?  Rather than cast women into exactly the same cliché, I'd rather do away with it entirely.

This is one of the things I love about Captain Marvel. She's _strong_, until she falls apart. And then she gets back up. That strength is a great archetype, but it shouldn't be the only archetype.

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The soldiers of the Rebellion are mostly motivated by revenge against Imperial atrocities, and the leadership a rose-tinted, revanchist longing to return to the inherently inefficient chaos of the Old Republic where they, the senators, had the power. 

 

Wonder Woman is a golem 'Ambassador' from a matriarchy literally fighting the patriarchy, deluded into thinking she's a human woman fighting for women's rights. 

 

Superman is an alien illegal immigrant enforcing his parochial, small-town American values on society through the use of demigodlike power, also deluded into thinking he's a human fighting for human rights,.  

 

Captain America is a patsy of the military-industrial complex and an outdated symbol of jingoistic nationalism, and slavish devotion to an outdated idea. 

 

They don't fight for social justice- they are enforcers of (or nostalgists for) the status quo. 

 

IM happy to see that some knows that Wonder Woman isn't really physically a woman but a clay construct.  It kinda creeps me out when I see people going nuts over IT.  Then again their are other DC universes, maybe IT isnt a clay construct in those universes.

 

Also don't forget lots of the real good soldiers of the Rebellion where very skilled anti-social mercs that had nothing better to do till Solo hired them to work for the REBs, and apparently after ep 6 that same group is a problem for the NEW REP.  IM talking about Renegade Squadron.

 

 

I really just hope we get Star Wars flavored top gun

This is basically all I've ever wanted. I like Jedi just fine, but I'm over them. I've always been more into the spaceships and dogfighting than I ever was about the Force.

As to the debate going on with the rest of the thread, I will never understand why people say "social justice warrior" like that's somehow a bad thing.  You know who commonly fights for social justice? 

 

 

The Rebellion.

 

Wonder Woman.

Superman.

 

Captain America.

 

 

...You know, heroes.

 

 

 

At one point Baron Fel and other good IMPs like him would make good arguments why REBs are not heroes.

 

This may be my personal opinion but Super Man and Bat Man suck and need to die.  The way they go about things in their universes make things worse in regards to how they deal with threats towards society.  They keep just about all their enemies alive.  Their enemies just get more experience with how do deal with Sups and Bats, and them become more desperate and crazy.

 

The Punisher doesn't suffer from the problems that the two above suffer from because he flat out executes his enemies 99% of the time.  He tried it bats way in the beginning of his crusade to kill off the mob in New York.  It didn't work out so yeah... Punishment.

 

Funny thing: the part of Ripley in Alien was written for a guy. But then Sigourney Weaver was awesome, so they changed the pronouns, and an awesome movie got made. Turns out that you pretty much _can_ put a woman into any role.

Also... I've seen more Ewoks than I've seen female pilots. That seems like a problem that needs fixing. I'm not sure why we're even debating if it is a problem.

 

 

That's not exactly how it worked out behind the scenes involving Sigorney and her part in the ALIEN movie.

 

Ive see more Ewoks than male pilots (going by movies only)  If we use every medium than theirs a crap load of Woman and Men that are pilots, some of them Ewoks... 

 

 

I don't know, maybe because other than Starbuck from the new Battlestar Galactica, there have been no female fighter pilot leads in any movies ever?  Or how about because Star Wars hasn't had a single female combat pilot in any of the movies?  How about because girls like me grew up having to watch boys do all the things we wanted to do on TV and in movies, with the knowledge that we weren't legally allowed to do it in real life either (women couldn't be fighter pilots legally in the USA till I was 13)?  There is a freak load of horrible damage that needs to be undone pronto.

 

And if none of those reasons is good enough, how about variety being the spice of life?

 

 

Stealth was a good movie with a woman fighter pilot lead.  Captain Power had Jennifer Chase (Pilot) she was ... The title is pretty self explanatory.  In essence you can count all the ladies of the Wonderbolts, which is the military airforce of equstria, its got lots of women fliers and pilots, depending on the universe, in it.  The best pilot of the Wonderbolts is a lady named Spitfire.  You got Iron eagle 2, avatar, terminator salvation, I get the feeling attack craft have to be used for air superiority just cause you cant be picky in a end of days situation,   falcon down, fatal skies   Robotech the shadow chronicles, the best pilot in the REF is a woman that is the daughter of Max and Mira Sterling.  I guess you can count Dana Sterling but she prefers to use Veritech hover tanks,   the Dragon in Aragon was female.  Black Widow from Avengers, Gamora and her sister Nebula were piloting stuff in Guardians of the Galaxy.  Oh and Pharaoh from ALIENS.

 

As for their being no female fighter pilots in the SW movies...

 

You missed a A-Wing pilot that was downed by TIE Interceptors, she was dubbed over by a guy but the voice is neutral enough that the pilot can still be counted as a woman.  Also theirs Bravo 5 from ep 1, technically Padme in ep 2 counts as she was flying a Naboo N-1 Star Fighter in that movie.  You can also count Leia in some regards as a fighter pilot because she did have to fly the falcon in ep 5 and she had a Speeder Bike fight in the woods of Endor with a Scout Trooper in ep 6.

 

Theirs also Karie  Neth, she was a Rogue Squdron pilot that was Gray 2 gunner during Endor.  You see her during the REB briefing about the attack on the 2nd DS.

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That is a pretty thorough enumeration.  I considered Padme from episode 2, but didn't include it, because she's not really a fighter pilot, it's a disguise.  Also, Leia wasn't a fighter pilot in the true sense.  I'll have to go back and look for the A-wing pilot.  Nonetheless, it's a stretch to find these examples.  And yes, I've seen Iron Eagle 2, and I have a little toy of Spitfire from the Wonderbolts.

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Wasn't the protagonist of The Force Unleashed originally going to be a Wookiee? I'd be up for an alien main character. Maybe Ibtisam?

But with a name like Rogue One I'm guessing it will be about Wedge Antilles, his valiant death, and how the next in line struggles to fill his shoes and retain the glory represented by the name "Rogue Squadron." Just one of many guesses. But it's gotta be about Wedge.

Edited by Parakitor

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An interesting theory is that she might play a young Mon Mothma and you will get to witness her start the rebellion. The title is a play on words of her journey and might tie into her involvement in starting Rogue Squadron.

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An interesting theory is that she might play a young Mon Mothma and you will get to witness her start the rebellion. The title is a play on words of her journey and might tie into her involvement in starting Rogue Squadron.

I wanna see the movie where fighter pilot Mon Mothma founds rogue Swuadrony, and then is hand picked by Ahsoka and Hera to lead the Rebellion.

All with frequent cuts to Yoda on Dagoba doing diddly squat.

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