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Lancer999

Millenium Falcon

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Ok, now that the Smuggler's Book is out, I think we can definitively have a debate as to what the MF has and doesn't have!

 

Here is my build...

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2zrgr7x94dgyo55/Millennium%20Falcon.pdf?dl=0

 

Now this is all what we see in the movies aka CANON!

 

However, one can argue that Han & Chewie (And Lando) have made some other modifications that were mentioned in the now "Legends" Books...

 

For instances....

 

Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor - 2HPs (Mentioned in the Books "Millenium Falcon")

Rapid Cargo Evacuation Chute - 1HP (Mentioned in Star Wars - CANON)

Reinforced Shield Generator - 2HPs (The MF takes more hits than any other ship on/off screen - CANON)

Upgraded Comms Array - 1HP (Empire Strikes Back, Han looks for a place to hold up from Empire & finds Bespin - CANON)

Electronic Countermeasures Suite - 1HP (ESB - Hiding from a Star Destroyer - CANON)

 

And of course all of the Talents/Load outs of the "Rigger" Career that Han will have as his "Signature Vehicle"

 

Now by my count that is 6 + 7 = 13 THIRTEEN Hard Points!

 

So let the Debate Begin!!

 

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Ok, now that the Smuggler's Book is out, I think we can definitively have a debate as to what the MF has and doesn't have!

 

For instances....

 

Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor - 2HPs (Mentioned in the Books "Millenium Falcon")

Rapid Cargo Evacuation Chute - 1HP (Mentioned in Star Wars - CANON)

Reinforced Shield Generator - 2HPs (The MF takes more hits than any other ship on/off screen - CANON)

Upgraded Comms Array - 1HP (Empire Strikes Back, Han looks for a place to hold up from Empire & finds Bespin - CANON)

Electronic Countermeasures Suite - 1HP (ESB - Hiding from a Star Destroyer - CANON)

You took a nice stab at it. However, I would note that it wasn't advanced comms that helped Han find Bespin so much as an advanced sensor array or astrogation system would have provided the necessary data.

 

Also, on the electronic countermeasures suite, I don't necessarily think an enhancement to the ship allowed his hiding from the Star Destroyer so much as his guile and excellent piloting.

 

I'm not saying my notes are the ultimate solution; these are just my opinions.

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Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor - 2HPs (Mentioned in the Books "Millenium Falcon")

Rapid Cargo Evacuation Chute - 1HP (Mentioned in Star Wars - CANON)

Reinforced Shield Generator - 2HPs (The MF takes more hits than any other ship on/off screen - CANON)

Upgraded Comms Array - 1HP (Empire Strikes Back, Han looks for a place to hold up from Empire & finds Bespin - CANON)

Electronic Countermeasures Suite - 1HP (ESB - Hiding from a Star Destroyer - CANON)

Armor - I assume the Book is new canon. Up for posting the excerpt where you get  that?

 

Chute - Mentioned he dumped the load, but not how. He could have just opened the hatch and thrown it out. After all there's a lot of fuzz there. How much spice was he carrying....ect. I'll put this as plausible.

Shield gen- taking hits does not = has. Possible, but not required in the least. The Falcon doesn't survive any more hits then a stock craft could, and you've already got armor. Put this at the bottom of the list below the chute.

 

Comm arrray.... yeah no demonstration of it. Han just knew where he was. Nope.

ECM - also nope. The ECM package is a jamming system, not cloaking system.

Edited by Ghostofman

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In my opinion, the Falcon isn't as tricked out as you have it.  In your stock build, I wouldn't even give it the droid piloting brain.  Astrogation brain, sure, but there's no evidence I remember of the Falcon flying on its own.  The speed upgrades make sense, and the weapons are correct I think.  As for the other extras, I wouldn't even give it armor, unless that book you mentioned specifies it (I don't think I've read that one).  None of the other extras are definitely there.

 

 

Rapid Cargo Evacuation Chute not necessary.  Lots of ways to dump cargo relatively quickly, especially something that might be small and expensive, like a few crates of spice.

 

The Falcon already has shields, so reinforced shields don't make sense to me.  It takes hits, but there's a lot of damage happening too, so those shields aren't that great.

 

Upgraded Comms Array, no evidence.  Han looked in his logs to see that he was near Bespin and knew someone there.

 

Electronic Countermeasures Suite - Han hid the Falcon by shutting everything down, including poor C-3PO.  That's not an ECM suite, it's just going dark.  Active sensors would've found him, or somebody looking out the right window.

 

The Smuggling compartments are the ones that definitely have to be there.  Those are too plot-centric to miss.  :)

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Really looking at how the Millennium Falcon is so upgraded all wrong, see Han Solo made a lot of personal modifications to his ship that aren't covered by Hardpoints, think Rigger specialization and Signature Vehicle, which was used to up Armor, Hull, System Strain, Handling, and add the Massive 1 quantity to his ship.

 

Which freed up the 6 stock hard points for making his baby crazy fast, upgraded engines and hyperdrive, replaced the medium laser cannons with Quad Lasers and added a forward mounted Concussion Missile Launcher, the remaining hard points he invested in an ECM suite(uses it to jam tie fighter communications on arriving at Alderaan), cloaked smuggling compartments, and a retractable hidden personal scale heavy blaster(as seen departing Hoth), for good measure the ship has droid brain autopilot, possibily astrogation as well

Edited by Greymere

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I always remember Leia's "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"

Let us not forget that Han, Luke, Chewie and Obi-Wan raided a top military base in what was effectively this:21_27_1_web.jpg

They are the very definition of Plucky Heroes. :D

I think the Falcon should be tricked out to make it faster and some assorted smuggling tricks. But we should remember it endlessly being repaired, breaking down and Obi-Wan's subtly amused expression when Han asked "You've never heard of the Millenium Falcon?" Han and Chewie are essentially Del Boy and Rodney in Space, for any older Brits who get the reference.

Edited by knasserII

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I myself do allow ships being "pimped" beyond their initial HP, whithin reason. The HP, in my opnion, is the ammount of changes a ship can handle without ado. After that it is getting trickier: You have to roll Mechanics, increasingly upgraded, and the ship becomes touchier and touchier: things break down or malfunction, constant tinkering is necessary.

 

THAT, I believe, is exactly what happened to the Falcon. 

 

To kaosoe (I'm afraid, my browser doesn't allow me to quote): I have to believe, that the backup hyperdrive is what brought the Falcon from Hoth to Bespin, as these planets are not in the same star system. The journey would have taken years at sublight speed.

Edited by Grimmerling

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In the d20 Sage Edition book 'Starships of the Galaxy', they had Emplacement Points instead of Hardpoints. One of the ways I think the Millenium Falcon had extra Emplacement Points is because they gave up cargo capacity to gain more. They had a system for it, in the book. They even had a rule that you could remove escape pods and gain a point for each, but it was highly frowned upon and illegal.

One of the ships I ran with, back then, had the cockpit modification that acted as an escape pod, so there was no use for the extras. We just added forward-mounted port and starboard dual-laser cannons for the location where the pods used to be.

You could probably give up, say, 25 cargo capacity for 1 Hard Point. That cargo area would be used for the new shield generator or the location for the hoses and cables that keep the new hot tub churning (which is also a bacta tank!)

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I always remember Leia's "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"

Let us not forget that Han, Luke, Chewie and Obi-Wan raided a top military base in what was effectively this:

 

Outstanding example - that's a perfect picture to put things into perspective visually!

 

Conceptually however, I believe it might be a bit more accurate to think of a stock YT-1300 like this:

GMC-Vandura-G2500-Images-3.jpeg

 

 

 

...and the Millenium Falcon like this:

A-Team-Van3.jpg

Edited by Lifer4700

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Conceptually however, I believe it might be a bit more accurate to think of a stock YT-1300 like this:

 

<photo snipped>

 

 

...and the Millenium Falcon like this:

 

<photo snipped>

 

On the INSIDE I agree. Mechanics, drives, electronics may all be upgraded when you start opening up panels. But on the outside I don't think the second picture is appropriate. "What a piece of junk?!" does not come to mind, but more likely "Wow! Cool! Can I drive it?!", especially from a redneck 17 year old.

 

(I crash everytime I try to link anymore)

 

So, to me it's more like this:

 

http://www.classiccarauto.com/impala/articles/junk_yard_tours/images/woller_auto_parts/project_cars/GMC_250_step_van.jpg

 

....but, when you open the hood, this:

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/resources/images/1439798.jpg?display=1&htype=100000&type=mc2

Edited by Sturn

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What we know, as of introduction of the Legend status: it has quadlaser cannon turrets, that anti-infantry minigun thingy and improved hyperdrive, and I'd say it has smuggling compartments... It may have an improved sensor suite, it may have improved sublight turbines, it may have improved shields... it may have improved armour. We don't know for sure.

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I wonder if in the "Tech" book, that besides rules for Droid Enhancements, there are Rules for Hard Points & how to gain more w/ whatever cost to the ship. 

 

THAT WOULD BE NICE!

 

And the Armor is in the "Legends" book.  Millennium Falcon is the name of the book that has the origins of the Falcon.   In previous books in RPG & other sources it mentions that Han added Armor to the ship.

 

And maybe they used the backup Hyperdrive to get to Bespin because they didnt do it in sub-light. 

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I wonder if in the "Tech" book, that besides rules for Droid Enhancements, there are Rules for Hard Points & how to gain more w/ whatever cost to the ship. 

 

THAT WOULD BE NICE!

 

And the Armor is in the "Legends" book.  Millennium Falcon is the name of the book that has the origins of the Falcon.   In previous books in RPG & other sources it mentions that Han added Armor to the ship.

 

And maybe they used the backup Hyperdrive to get to Bespin because they didnt do it in sub-light. 

If it's in legends then I'm not all that interested, after all the reason legends is legends is because so many people hung so much stuff on it.

 

The backup hyperdrive is gone though, or else it would have been mentioned or used at some point in the film. It actually makes a lot of sense...

 

So...

Just to review:

 

Required:

Smuggling Compartments - 1 (Plot point in ANH)

Ion Turbine - 1 (Uses GtA in ESB, Jedi)

Hyperdrive upgrade - 1 (Repeatedly referred to as fast, ANH, ESB, Jedi)

Quads - net 0 (Plot point in ANH, seen again in Jedi)

Missiles - 1 (Seen in Jedi)

Ground Buzzer - 1 (Seen in ESB)

Astrogation droid brain - 0 (Mentioned in ESB twice by different characters, can be heard belching in background)

Net: 1HP

 

House Rule:

Remove Backup - +1 (Plot point in ESB, but IIRC its never mentioned what's actually wrong with the Falcon, so it's possible it took a Crit or Component hit that disabled the Nav Computer and the GM required special parts, or the players just kept botching the roll)

Net: 2HP if allowed

 

Possible but not required:

Dump chute - 1 (Dumped cargo mentioned in ANH, but never specifically called out as an equipped system)

Autopilot droid brain - 0 (not directly mentioned or used, but fluff for item would explain difficulties with astrogation droid brain in ESB)

Long range comms - 1 (Also not mentioned directly or used. It's unknown what the function of the dorsal dish is, but upgraded comms is a possibility, assuming the dish is not a stock feature. It would allow the Falcon to Jam the TIE in ANH at longer range though, so it's possible.)

Net: 0HP or -1HP depending on above house rule decision.

 

Not required:

Armor - 2

Shields - 2 (The Falcon takes several hits, but not that many if you really watch. Its tagged by a TIE a few times in ANH, and I think again in ESB, and once by a Star Destroyer in ESB, and survives a collision in ESB and RotJ. Factor in narrative elements though (for example the Falcon was fully repaired between the Star Destroyer hit in ESB and a later chase with TIES) and the Falcon doesn't take any hits a well managed YT-1300 without upgraded shields and armor couldn't also survive.)

ECM - 1 (Never mentioned or used in any way)

Targeting Array - 1 (It's never mentioned if the targeting computers on the quads are upgraded or not. The targeting computers on the Ghost appear to be a very similar or same make and model, and the ghost isn't mentioned as having upgraded targeting gear either IIRC)

Net: -6 or 7

 

And that's my take. the Falcon is still totally doable without house ruling. If you do house rule that you can remove the backup hyperdrive for 1HP that even leaves you with 2 HP of wiggle room to include additional systems like long range comms and cargo chute, or alternatively you could add your armor or shields there.

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Don't forget that some of the things we see in the films could easily be covered by signature abilities. Narrow Escape, for example, is a good way to end a hopeless encounter with a Star Destroyer when the Hyperdrive isn't working.

 

I do agree that the Falcon is operating with modifications beyond the standard 6 that comes with the YT-1300. I wouldn't houserule that the Falcon has no backup hyperdrive, again because of distances covered. According to the Galaxy map I'm looking at, I'm, guessing that Hoth/Anoat/Bespin represents a span of at least 12 parsecs (about ...39 light years ;)) No matter how fast they are at sublight, we know that at some point they would have had to have travelled faster than light... but given how slow they were, Fett/Empire could have easily gotten in front of them.

 

I think GhostofaMan's assessment is pretty good, although I'd say that the Falcon probably has about 7-8 hardpoints worth of upgrades given that it is clearly a signature ship. Again, that can be reached with Rigger talents. Whether Han or Chewie is truly the Rigger is another matter for discussion, but clearly one of them is. 

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I do generally assume that Han is a Smuggler:Pilot base character, and that Chewie is either a Rigger base, or took Rigger as a secondary Spec. Honestly of the two of them Chewie is the harder one to stat out if only because you can go with so many different builds that still end with something that would work.

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I'm not sure Chewie does anything useful in the entire trilogy, does he? I remember him fiddling around with the ships innards at various points but it was mainly in conjunction with Han telling him something is in the wrong way around and R2 being the one to actually get things working again.

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My experience at various companies is that the ones where the computer people are scurrying around gibbering at me unintelligibly about version problems are the ones where people just aren't that good. Whereas when people are good, I don't hear from them. Engineering is like plumbing - if it's done right, you shouldn't be looking at it.

Someone surrounded by wires and tools is not evidence that they know what they're doing.

But you're right: someone adding a subtitle track to Chewbacca could be hilarious. Ditto for R2-D2. Maybe I'll go and do that now. :D

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