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wampabait

I think you overestimate their chances... A-Wings v Ships

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Hi guys

 

We know what the different dice colours mean for ships.

 

Red - less accurate but long range. Chancy on damage/misses.

Blue - more accurate, reliable low damage. Accuracy results help when rolling more than one die by disallowing defence token use.

Black - close range, powerful damage, but still a chance to miss.

 

So, this looks fairly straight forward.

 

Now what about fighters? They only attack at the same range so our different dice now only really differ in attack power. Typically black dice are more powerful than others (looking at you hero X-Wings) but what about the A wings black die? Is this actually a help or a hindrance when attacking ships? No bomber rule = no crits and a single accuracy result may as well be a miss. 

 

Is there any difference between having a single black die or a single blue die for fighters that don't have the bomber text? Could this only really matter when adding more dice to the attack pool through upgrades?

 

I know A-Wings are interceptors and good against fighters and you shouldn't be using them against ships anyway. So, yeah. Blue or black on A-Wings, any good?

 

Just something interesting to discuss while we wait for the next juicy piece of news and the release of what is looking like an amazing game...

Edited by wampabait

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Black die have 4 hits, 2 crit hits, and two blanks if memory serves. So 75% chance of hit against a cap. Blue die is 4 hits , 2 accuracy, and 2 crits. So 50% chance of a hit against a cap.

Amusingly even a bomber with a red die( xwing) is only a 63% chance of a hit v miss... Now nearly half those hits will be a crit or a double hit, but you will miss more.

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It seems I'm working with inaccurate information regarding the dice facings... That would definitely make the black die a positive for the A-Wings anti-ship firepower.

 

Did you get to play a demo or can I find the dice info somewhere?

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The ffg starwars die app is "fully armed and operational" and it's a matter of piecing together bits and pieces from articles, images, and other forum goers. For the longest time I thought the red die only had one crit.

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Have to agree with Indomitable, I have cross checked against the dice app and done some roll percentages to verify, your dice info seems to be a little off.

 

Black dice would be 75% chance of hit, but for an A-Wing you would have to ignore the critical in the Hit + critical hit facing.

 

Blue dice are the worst at 50%, as they have to ignore critical results and a single accuracy will not be of any use.

 

Red dice are inbetween at 63% as long as its on a "bomber", but they do have chances to do a double hit.

If the fighter does not have the keyword "bomber" then it would drop to a shockingly low 36%.

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Wait. So what is the percentage of a hit for an A-wing, no bomber keyword, throwing a black die, with the limitations starfighters have against caps (no criticals and no accuracy is it?)?

 

i.e., how decent is the A-wing's single black die against caps?

 

(Also, how hilarious would a hero Arvel A-wing be with an anti-capital ship attack that traded him to destroy any capital ship? Be a great bonus card meant just for fun as a humerous non-playable tournament prize.)

Edited by R22

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A Black die has a hit on 6 of its 8 facings, or 75%, the same average raw damage as a X-wing (red with bomber), but it can't deal a crit, nor does it potentially deal a double hit.  The X-wing actually has fairly poor raw damage per point versus ships.

 

Even the Tie fighters are perfectly reasonable against ships if theirs nothing else to shoot at.

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Wait, does the A-wing throw at 75%, including the fact that crits and double hits don't count? That seems awful high. (Though I wouldn't necessarily mind...) Or is it that the black die itself is 75% -- not taking into account the starfighter limitations against caps? I'm trying to figure out the latter, i.e. how good A-wings are against capital ships.

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50% hit rate on a TIE/In or TIE/Ln. Not bad, but not really good either, since a TIE/sa has an effectively 100% hit rate (or average of 1 damage per attack) plus the opportunity for crits for 1 more point than a Fighter and 2 less than an Interceptor.

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Wait, does the A-wing throw at 75%, including the fact that crits and double hits don't count? That seems awful high.

 

Including, because a hit + crit result is still a hit even if you discard the crit.

There are no individual crit or double hit results on the black dice.

 

The way I would look at it is a 75% chance to cause 1 damage.

 

A red dice on the other hand on a bomber is a 63% chance to cause 1 damage or greater, with a 25% chance to cause a critical hit and a 13% chance to cause 2 damage. (Without Bomber though as mentioned it drops down to 36% to deal one damage or more, with a 13% chance of dealing 2 damage).

 

The blue dice is a 50% chance to deal 1 damage, if criticals have to be ignored.

 

So looking at it that way, the Black has better odds of consistantly scoring a single damage point, but the Red dice allows you to potentially deal far greater or more effective damage (from critical effects) at only a slightly lower accuracy.

 

Blue dice really need to be rolling multiple dice to make use of the accuracy result to be of any use, which is why those dice are commonly on anti-fighter craft rather then strike craft.

Edited by MaverickNZ

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Pretty sure it is just crits, as other effects based off dice results can use a single portion of a two dice roll (ie using a Black Crit for concussion missiles doesn't also cancel the hit attached to the crit). Also Screed allows you to switch a Hit into a Hit + Crit at the cost of another dice (probably a hit or a blank).

 

Plus bomber doesn't effect rolling Crits on squadrons, yet black dice in anti-squadron armaments are clearly a bonus (that's why TIE Bombers can get away with having a single anti-squad dice, because it is Black instead of Blue)

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If looked at from an average damage perspective, however, rather than the accuracy of dealing 1 or more hits, the X-Wing and the A-Wing come out tied: the Black Die has 6 hit icons on it, and the Red Die has 4 hit icons and 2 crit icons, for 6 total. Both ships will deal the same amount of damage, on average, over a game (0.75 damage per attack), but the X-wing's attacks include dealing 0.25 crits, for added effect. By comparison, the Y-Wing deals an average 1 damage per attack, with the same 0.25 crits. The B-Wing deals an average 1.75 damage, with 0.44 crits.

 

This means that over 4 rounds, an A-Wing attacking a ship deals an average 3 damage and 0 crits.

An X-Wing deals 3 damage, 1 of which is a crit.

A Y-Wing deals 4 damage, 1 of which is a crit.

A B-Wing deals a whopping 7 damage, 1.75 of which will be crits.

 

For comparison, a TIE/Ln and /In both deal an average 2 damage and 0 crits.

A TIE/Ad deals 3 damage and 0 crits.

A TIE/sa deals 4 damage, 1 of which is a crit.

Edited by GAThraawn

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I actually like their anti-ship capability, when combined with their excellent anti-squad firepower it makes them incredibly versatile. They focus on anti-squad, but after that is done they can do a decent job at anti-ship. X-wings work the same way, but cost a bit more.

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