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LithiumBlossom

Wages of Rebellion

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According to both the Core rules and Stay on Target Rebel characters could be paid wages for their service. I've been planning to give them to my group so that they can bribe officials, procure resources and equip themselves with non-standard issue gear among other things.

The problem is neither source gives a guideline as to how much is appropriate. I'm not sure how to balance economy in this latest edition but I've eyeballed it and given players 500 credits per month.

Is this a suitable amount? I assume there should be some varience for both rank and risk as well. The base they operate out has been fairly successful and the CO has been focused on morale so pay has been fairly regular so far but as things get more desperate they will be short changed.

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Well.

 

Dangerous Covenants, which granted deals with mercs not Rebels and other ideologically impaired individuals, suggests somewhere between 500 to 2000 creds per job for individual hire. So your 500 per month might be ok, but also a tad low, or 500-1000 for an average soldier for a successful operation. Again, it's not monthly - and some ops might be longer and others shorter...

 

If you look to Far Horizons, it suggests 750 to 1200 for a deputy, 2-3000 for a sheriff and 3-5000 for a police comissioner (arguably the closest to rebel sodliers/operatives on that list [page93]). This is (I assume) gross monthly salary.

Edited by Jegergryte

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It depends.  How much loot are they receiving?  Is the loot they are receiving items they want for themselves or stuff they want to sell (stuff they want for themselves is worth about 4 or 5 times what they sell is worth)? How many days pass in an average session? How much cash do you want them to have on hand?

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Time can pass at a varying rate- sometimes hours will pass other times weeks. They don't seem particularly loot happy and usually have been performing quick raids. They've mostly picked up easily pocketed gear such as stimpacks or things which would help their mission such as Imperial uniforms. One did pick up a Scout trooper's sniper rifle once and another took some Stormtrooper carapace he customised to look more Alliance.

Overall I'm trying not to encourage too much murder hobo behaviour and most of the characters are there for ideals. One player has been trying to set up a small business on the side selling luxuries gathered on field assignments but I've glossed over that so far, I don't want to get bogged down in mercantile minutiae.

I'm okay with paying them less than mercenaries however. The Rebellion is cash strapped but a little more broad. Higher payment from a third party however could act as a good dramatic incentive down the line though.

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Time can pass at a varying rate- sometimes hours will pass other times weeks. They don't seem particularly loot happy and usually have been performing quick raids. They've mostly picked up easily pocketed gear such as stimpacks or things which would help their mission such as Imperial uniforms. One did pick up a Scout trooper's sniper rifle once and another took some Stormtrooper carapace he customised to look more Alliance.

Overall I'm trying not to encourage too much murder hobo behaviour and most of the characters are there for ideals. One player has been trying to set up a small business on the side selling luxuries gathered on field assignments but I've glossed over that so far, I don't want to get bogged down in mercantile minutiae.

I'm okay with paying them less than mercenaries however. The Rebellion is cash strapped but a little more broad. Higher payment from a third party however could act as a good dramatic incentive down the line though.

 

 

I think pay depends on a few things:

  1. Are you charging for docking fees, food, ect, or just "expenses and personals"
  2. How is duty and issued gear playing in?
  3. What do the players want?

Offhand as the rebellion, they should probably be getting little pay. BUT as the rebellion they also might be able to avoid spending money on stuff a smuggler campaign would need to buy. For example, weapons, field gear and mission essential hardware can be acquired through a  quartermaster (the actual position, not the spec). So if a mission sounds like it'll call for Blaster Carbines, the players should be able to go and pull some from the armory instead of having to go out and buy them. Likewise comlinks, field rations, clothing, ship repairs and fueling, and other day-to-day things shouldn't require the players to pay out of pocket.

 

It's also worth saying that players who check out equipment are expected to bring it back eventually. So If you need a rocket launcher this adventure, but don't next, the QM can come back and demand it's return. Likewise if you sign for a flamethower and then lose it, the QM is probably not gonna be happy, and will be hesitant to sign out the better gear to you later (and possibly give you a hit on Duty).

 

It's even possible that money might be assigned to the players. Say the are going to some place where smuggling in credits will be easier then weapons. So the players get 10,000 credits to take with them to buy gear on the black market on location. Of course they'll probably be expected to return with any change and they gear they don't expend....

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If Rebellion solders are like most solders I've met, they're weekly pay and weekly expenses are pretty close.  I'd consider just having all of them roll a d100 at the start of every adventure for how much "pocket cash" they have that game.  If bribery or on-site acquisitions are expected of the party, the Rebellion will probably give them cred-chips to do that with - with the expectation that what ever they don't spend will be returned.

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Room and board is covered currently as they operate out of a starfighter base. The base has a quartermaster whom they have been making frugal use of (last session they only requested a handful of restraining bolts) and have been reliably returning gear. I have been rewarding them Duty points for bringing back gear, usually things they felt others needed more or they were fine without.

I am at the chronological point in the campaign now where the Rebellion is able to hand out more standard gear to its troops such as uniforms and sidearms. However I should consider allowing an expenses budget for operations, they have been trusted before with large amounts and made sure to bring most back.

They reached Contribution Rank 2 last session so got a light freighter as a reward. They have taken to it so I believe they will wish to customise it soon. Other things I expect them to buy would include better than standard equipment or other highly specialist items the Rebellion might not have enough of to really issue.

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It sounds like you have a good group of players who are enjoying the role play of the game.  I would guess they might be more interested in story rewards than in cash.  Talk to them and find out what they want.  Get it to them eventually and if it's something big make it part of the story arc. 

 

So to sum up, based on what you have stated I would suggest not giving them any pay check and work towards contribution ranks and gear acquired in the field.

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You could chose between pay or feeling up Mon Mothma.

Everyone went for pay.

Except for Admiral Ackbar.

How else do you think someone that incompetent ended up in charge of a fleet? Clearly he and Mon Mothma were dating, imo.

 

 

 

Why do you consider Ackbar to be incompetent? Stuck up sure, especially when he's whining about the Alliance working with smugglers and privateers because they are criminals while ignoring the benefits they bring to the Alliance and the fact that joining the Alliance is a criminal act. But I've never seen anything showing him as incompetent.

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You could chose between pay or feeling up Mon Mothma.

Everyone went for pay.

Except for Admiral Ackbar.

How else do you think someone that incompetent ended up in charge of a fleet? Clearly he and Mon Mothma were dating, imo.

 

 

Why do you consider Ackbar to be incompetent? Stuck up sure, especially when he's whining about the Alliance working with smugglers and privateers because they are criminals while ignoring the benefits they bring to the Alliance and the fact that joining the Alliance is a criminal act. But I've never seen anything showing him as incompetent.

Well I was mostly going for humour. I've honestly not see that much to say one way or another as he's only appeared in RotJ in the infamous trap scene and a two-parter in TCW. He was far from any particular tactical skill in TCW and all we really see of him in RotJ is a rout. He's essentially known for just one thing - a giant strategic blunder. It's not great, is it? ;)

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Well I was mostly going for humour. I've honestly not see that much to say one way or another as he's only appeared in RotJ in the infamous trap scene and a two-parter in TCW. He was far from any particular tactical skill in TCW and all we really see of him in RotJ is a rout. He's essentially known for just one thing - a giant strategic blunder. It's not great, is it? ;)

 

wow, this thread got derailed.

 

1. Ackbar's fleet was able to take out the Executor, arguably one of the largest Imperial ships of the time.

2. "The trap" was not his fault, but false intelligence

3.  Ackbar is known as a strategic genius

 

This is about the same as saying stormtroopers cannot hit anything, just from watching ANH, and what they did on the death star, when they were TOLD to let them escape.. no matter the loss of lives by Tarkin, as a way to find the Rebel base

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One idea that the AoR group I'm in has been loosely utilizing (when the GM remembers) is that at the onset of every mission, each PC is given an allotment of credits equal to their Contribution Rank x 100, and any money left over after the mission/adventure is done the PCs are allowed to keep.  This would be something of a discretionary fund that the PCs can use to pick up necessary supplies in between missions or simply "on the job" emergency funds.

 

Yeah, at the lower Contribution Ranks it's not a lot, but at the same time those lower Contribution Ranks mean that your PCs aren't trusted members of the Alliance.  As well as reflecting that the Alliance is generally pretty strapped for resources.  If you want the PCs to generate more "income" from the Alliance, simply up the credit amount from 100, but probably not much higher than 250.  After all, the PCs are Rebels, and the Alliance isn't overflowing with wealth; waging a war when you're as resource poor as the Rebel Alliance isn't easy.

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Contribution Rank x100 is a good idea.

 

In Onslaught at Arda I, we decided the characters were rewarded with 100 credit vouchers for each side mission they completed in Episode 2. It let them get weapons, equipment, and especially stimpacks between jaunts into the jungle.

 

By the end of the adventure, they had a Contribution rank of 1, which will be a good way to continue with 100 credits in vouchers to cash in before missions.

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Well I was mostly going for humour. I've honestly not see that much to say one way or another as he's only appeared in RotJ in the infamous trap scene and a two-parter in TCW. He was far from any particular tactical skill in TCW and all we really see of him in RotJ is a rout. He's essentially known for just one thing - a giant strategic blunder. It's not great, is it? ;)

wow, this thread got derailed.

 

1. Ackbar's fleet was able to take out the Executor, arguably one of the largest Imperial ships of the time.

2. "The trap" was not his fault, but false intelligence

3.  Ackbar is known as a strategic genius

I think you must be drawing on non-cannon sources. I don't remember any of that in anything I have watched. Well, the middle one, I suppose is RotJ, but that's it.

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1 and 2 are both from Return of the Jedi

 

As for 3 it makes absolutely no sense to me for a fleet as badly outnumbered and outgunned as the Alliance's was to survive if it commander is incompetent. So far in canon we have only actually seen Ackbar commanding a fleet or any kind of force in space combat in Return of the Jedi but I didn't seen anything showing he was incompetent IMO. What sucks is I can think of two easy ways they could have included a fleet battle in the Calamari arc of The Clone Wars and included Ackbar as either a warship captain or task force commander role. But by the time the Calamari arc came along major fleet battles were considered something to be avoided by the writers apparently.

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1 and 2 are both from Return of the JediAs for 3 it makes absolutely no sense to me for a fleet as badly outnumbered and outgunned as the Alliance's was to survive if it commander is incompetent. So far in canon we have only actually seen Ackbar commanding a fleet or any kind of force in space combat in Return of the Jedi but I didn't seen anything showing he was incompetent IMO. What sucks is I can think of two easy ways they could have included a fleet battle in the Calamari arc of The Clone Wars and included Ackbar as either a warship captain or task force commander role. But by the time the Calamari arc came along major fleet battles were considered something to be avoided by the writers apparently.

It's a little while since I've watched it but I don't remember Ackbar or his fleet taking down a star destroyer in that final battle scene when they were trapped between the ships and the fully operational death star.As regards number 3, the only reason the Rebels won is because the destruction of the Death Star threw the Imperial Forces into chaos. It was explicitly clear that the Rebels were getting hammered up until that point. You also would not have seen Ackbar as a warship captain or similar in TCW because in the episodes he appears in, he's a child-prince whose tactical command seems to mostly involve saying "we must defeat them" and swimming toward the enemy.It is his advisors and the Jedi who come up with all the plans and save the day.

There is a long, long history of incompetent military leaders from noble backgrounds commanding vast forces. Ackbar was a noble princeling who got ousted by the Empire and was probably promoted to fleet command because it politically brought all the Mon Calamari forces onto their side. I can see the meeting between Mon Mothma and Princess Leia even now:

Leia: "You made that spoiled squid an admiral?"

Mothma: "He's the royal leader of the Mon Calamari. They have a lot of ships. If they see this rebellion as a Mon Calamari effort, they'll come on board."

Leia: "But he drives me crazy. He's always stating the obvious."

Mothma: "I'm sorry, but that's my final word. We'll give him some competent advisors, it'll be fine..."

There's just as much evidence in canon for my view as there is yours! ;)

Edited by knasserII

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1 and 2 are both from Return of the JediAs for 3 it makes absolutely no sense to me for a fleet as badly outnumbered and outgunned as the Alliance's was to survive if it commander is incompetent. So far in canon we have only actually seen Ackbar commanding a fleet or any kind of force in space combat in Return of the Jedi but I didn't seen anything showing he was incompetent IMO. What sucks is I can think of two easy ways they could have included a fleet battle in the Calamari arc of The Clone Wars and included Ackbar as either a warship captain or task force commander role. But by the time the Calamari arc came along major fleet battles were considered something to be avoided by the writers apparently.

It's a little while since I've watched it but I don't remember Ackbar or his fleet taking down a star destroyer in that final battle scene when they were trapped between the ships and the fully operational death star.As regards number 3, the only reason the Rebels won is because the destruction of the Death Star threw the Imperial Forces into chaos. It was explicitly clear that the Rebels were getting hammered up until that point. You also would not have seen Ackbar as a warship captain or similar in TCW because in the episodes he appears in, he's a child-prince whose tactical command seems to mostly involve saying "we must defeat them" and swimming toward the enemy.It is his advisors and the Jedi who come up with all the plans and save the day.

There is a long, long history of incompetent military leaders from noble backgrounds commanding vast forces. Ackbar was a noble princeling who got ousted by the Empire and was probably promoted to fleet command because it politically brought all the Mon Calamari forces onto their side. I can see the meeting between Mon Mothma and Princess Leia even now:

Leia: "You made that spoiled squid an admiral?"

Mothma: "He's the royal leader of the Mon Calamari. They have a lot of ships. If they see this rebellion as a Mon Calamari effort, they'll come on board."

Leia: "But he drives me crazy. He's always stating the obvious."

Mothma: "I'm sorry, but that's my final word. We'll give him some competent advisors, it'll be fine..."

There's just as much evidence in canon for my view as there is yours! ;)

 

 

Here is where you assumption fails you. Ackbar was the Captain of the Mon Calamari Guard and not the Prince.  Prince Lee-Char is who you are getting him confused with. 

So your assumption that he was only Commanding the Alliance Fleet because of his Noble/Royal status is incorrect. 

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There is a long, long history of incompetent military leaders from noble backgrounds commanding vast forces. Ackbar was a noble princeling who got ousted by the Empire and was probably promoted to fleet command because it politically brought all the Mon Calamari forces onto their side. I can see the meeting between Mon Mothma and Princess Leia even now:

 

And theres just as many examples (if not more) of Nobles through history who because of their access to higher education and life long focus on war are excellent leaders and strategists. Being a noble doesnt mean your somehow automaticly pampered and foolish with no connection to your people and incapable of waging war. Yes some nobles only have commands because of their titles, but that cannot be extended to all of them.

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So your assumption that he was only Commanding the Alliance Fleet because of his Noble/Royal status is incorrect.

Huh. I haven't seen those in ages. I remembered the prince and recalled him being Ackbar. You may be right. Oh well.

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I think canon pretty much establishes Ackbar as a competent commander.  Right off the Star Wars datacron;

 

A veteran commander, Ackbar led the defense of his oceanic home world, Mon Cala, during the Clone Wars, and the Rebel cruiser assault of the Battle of Endor during the war against the Empire. A Mon Calamari, Ackbar and his people manned the distinctive warships supplied to the Rebellion by that aquatic culture. Beyond the qualifications of his great skills and sterling character, Ackbar was a symbol to the rest of the galaxy that the Alliance is fighting for everyone, no matter what their background or origin. The Empire, in contrast, routinely subjugated non-humans.

 

Ackbar additionally gained recognition for his role in the creation and recovery of the B-Wing fighter, and the destruction of the SSD Executor was loosely attributed to him as he commanded the fleet to focus their attacks on the ship prior to its destruction via a A-Wing ramming into the command superstructure.

 

Back on the topic of Wages, I liked the 100xContribution(Duty) formula that was suggested, though i would suggest any credits claimed as currency in the form of credits you could spend outside the Rebellion should have their value substantially reduced(25%) 

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*Ahem*... Returning to more pressing matters...

 

I think that a relatively low pay would make sense, with the Contributionx100 for the start of every session, and a bonus payment upon mission completion; however, this bonus will be relatively low, representing that the Alliance is paying for the PCs' side-costs (repairs, lodging, healing, etc.).

 

And as for our fishy friend, let's recall that he was commander on Mon Calamari, with most mistakes made by the prince, as I recall. Also, being a secondary character, they couldn't show him stealing all the glory, so RotJ has Lando call the shots for a lot of it, and while the Emperor's death supposedly caused chaos, the idea originates from the Thrawn legacy by Timothy Zahn, which is now Legends. However, as a counter argument, the Executor only crashed because an A-Wing smashed into the bridge when the shields went down; a counter-counter argument then shows that the shields must have gone down due to the damage inflicted to the Executor. So why don't we just agree that it doesn't really matter all that much? Let's go with canon (even if it is mostly Legends) and say that he's brilliant, but behind his back joke about how little we see him do in RotJ, hm?

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I think it really depends on how you look at the rebellion. Is it a resistance composed of freedom fighters? Or is it a standing military? I don't think the French resistance in the Second World War paid their members, but troops in the American Revolution did get a wage.

Personally, I don't think giving out wages fits the rebellion. Money for operational requirements makes sense, but a standard wage seems beyond the organization (or at least, how it is portrayed in my campaign). I like to think of there being no real centralized treasury for the alliance, but rather funds controlled by each rebel cell and service. So, the main fleet might make sense to have a standing wage, but bases and even sectors would perhaps not have the resources.

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