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PaulTiberius

Ionization and the "Perform Action" step ... well this is embarrassing

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I just realized today that I've probably been handling ionized ships wrong. For the last several months that I've been playing X-Wing, I have assumed an ionized ship had to skip its perform action step, since it had no dial assigned to it.

Reading the faq again, I think the root of my assumption was the wording of the explanation given for why an ionized and cloaked ship could not decloak: "Because no dial is assigned or revealed..."

The embarrassing part is that nearly all of my play has been against people I have taught the game. And since I've heavily favored ion weapons, I suppose I've been teaching a lot of people wrong?

The weird part is that the one time I played some much more experienced players, I fired off my ion turrets, then said, "Your ship skips its action step next time since it doesn't get a dial, right?" They went with my explanation. Maybe they hadn't ever faced or practiced with many ion weapons?

So it was with a sense of vertigo that I glanced again at the ion token reference card, for the first time in a while, and saw that it said an ionized ship may perform actions as normal. Sure, actions granted by other game effects, yeah. But wait...even its normal "perform action" step action, too?

I can't lawyer my way to any reason why not. So, have I been doing this wrong?

Does an ionized ship still get its regular action opportunity -- the "Perform action" step of the Activation Phase -- after executing the ion token required white 1 forward?

(By the way, I read some of the fairly old threads, circa 2013, on the topic of ionization, and found some entertaining dogfights on peripheral issues from an earlier state of the game community, but they didn't quite answer my question. I'm hoping for a definitive answer that I'm confident is up to date.)

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The other thing to keep in mind is any ability that triggers when you reveal your maneuver, isn't going to have the opportunity to do so when you've been ionised. So a Phantom's decloak isn't going to happen, nor is Advanced Sensors. There's possibly a couple more that I can't remember right now as well.

 

I just though about my previous post, and technically you can still plan a maneuver, just as long as it's a white-1 forward. ;)

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Another thing to note is that the white 1-straight maneuver ion causes you to perform is made green by an R2 Astromech or Nien Nunb crew.

Really? I would have thought the white ion 1 would be treated as a negative effect, which trumps the positive effect of the cards you cite.

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Another thing to note is that the white 1-straight maneuver ion causes you to perform is made green by an R2 Astromech or Nien Nunb crew.

Really? I would have thought the white ion 1 would be treated as a negative effect, which trumps the positive effect of the cards you cite.

 

 

It isn't changing the difficulty, like cards such as Stay on Target, you are simply making a 1 white forward.

 

:ph34r:

Edited by Otacon

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Also, it is a common misconception in this game to think that, as general rule, that "negative effects prevail over positive effects".

 

That rule in fact, doesn't exist at all within the game. The rules only give how to resolve two especific situations about direct opposite effects:

 

  • One is when an effect increases the difficulty of a maneuver, and another effect decreases it. The one that increases difficulty prevail.
  • The other is when one effect allows something and another effect forbids the same thing. The one that forbids prevail.

 

And that's all. For any other type of effects, it has to be seen case by case how they exactly interact between themselves. However people usually (and wrongly) generalize those 2 especific situations into the nonexistant rule that "negative prevails over positive"... Which frequently leads to confusions, since in many cases, both positive and negative effect end applying regardless.

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Also, it is a common misconception in this game to think that, as general rule, that "negative effects prevail over positive effects".

^ This, it's good to keep everything above in mind. Lots of people make the mistake Jenhan mentions.

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One more thing to keep in mind with ionizing and actions.

If the ship has a stress token and is ionized, it does not get to reveal a green maneuver, and therefore stays stressed, and unable to perform actions.  (barring the various ways around that, mentioned above)

 

Ion weapons can be very useful against ships with Push the Limit, Experimental Interface, just did a K turn, or that you have a way to force stress upon.

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One more thing to keep in mind with ionizing and actions.

If the ship has a stress token and is ionized, it does not get to reveal a green maneuver, and therefore stays stressed, and unable to perform actions.  (barring the various ways around that, mentioned above)

 

Ion weapons can be very useful against ships with Push the Limit, Experimental Interface, just did a K turn, or that you have a way to force stress upon.

Well technically it doesn't get to assign a dial or reveal a maneuver at all. If the ship has some way to change the white-1 to a green, like R2-D2, then he can do so, and then remove 1 stress token.

Edited by Parravon

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I just realized today that I've probably been handling ionized ships wrong. For the last several months that I've been playing X-Wing, I have assumed an ionized ship had to skip its perform action step, since it had no dial assigned to it.

 

Ionized ships actually have a dial assigned, it is a white 1 forward. However, it is not placed faced down and thus is not flipped face up (which means you cannot apply Navigator or decloak). However, ionized ships continue their turn as normal since it does have a dial applied.

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Ionized ships actually have a dial assigned,

 

No, they don't. The ion effects card specifically says you don't assign a dial. The ship moves AS IF it had a white 1 planned, but it does not have any dial assigned.

 

 

Well, yeah, the FAQ is poorly worded. You cannot assign a maneuver outside of a dial, but you're assigned a white 1 forward (even though it says you don't assign a dial). That's slightly contradictory.

 

Makes me wonder if they are going to key off the "assign a dial" step at some point to allow cards/pilots to key off that in another way.

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Well, yeah, the FAQ is poorly worded. You cannot assign a maneuver outside of a dial, but you're assigned a white 1 forward (even though it says you don't assign a dial). That's slightly contradictory.

 

Makes me wonder if they are going to key off the "assign a dial" step at some point to allow cards/pilots to key off that in another way.

 

The FAQ specifically states that you move the ship "as if it were assigned a white 1 maneuver". This means:

  • The ioned ship is never assigned a dial.
  • The ioned ship is never assigned a maneuver.

I don't see how there's any contradiction there...

 

 

And I hope they don't ever key off the "assign a dial" step... Would make for all sorts of weird crap. Is a dial considered assigned as soon as it's put down by the ship? Are dials assigned in initiative order? Are they all assigned simultaneously at the end of the Planning Phase?

Edited by Klutz

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Well, yeah, the FAQ is poorly worded. You cannot assign a maneuver outside of a dial, but you're assigned a white 1 forward (even though it says you don't assign a dial). That's slightly contradictory.

 

Makes me wonder if they are going to key off the "assign a dial" step at some point to allow cards/pilots to key off that in another way.

 

The FAQ specifically states that you move the ship "as if it were assigned a white 1 maneuver". This means:

  • The ioned ship is never assigned a dial.
  • The ioned ship is never assigned a maneuver.
I don't see how there's any contradiction there...

 

As you noted, you do assign a maneuver (white 1 straight) from the FAQ, but not a dial. The rules also say you assign maneuvers via dials. So that's where I made the mistake.

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Well, yeah, the FAQ is poorly worded. You cannot assign a maneuver outside of a dial, but you're assigned a white 1 forward (even though it says you don't assign a dial). That's slightly contradictory.

 

Makes me wonder if they are going to key off the "assign a dial" step at some point to allow cards/pilots to key off that in another way.

 

The FAQ specifically states that you move the ship "as if it were assigned a white 1 maneuver". This means:

  • The ioned ship is never assigned a dial.
  • The ioned ship is never assigned a maneuver.
I don't see how there's any contradiction there...

As you noted, you do assign a maneuver (white 1 straight) from the FAQ, but not a dial. The rules also say you assign maneuvers via dials. So that's where I made the mistake.

No, you do NOT assign a maneuver.

The ship simply performs a white 1 straight maneuver.

Daredevil has your ship perform a white 1 hard turn maneuver.

There is never a maneuver or dial assigned to the ship.

If I live "as if" I'm a millionaire, it doesn't make me a millionaire.

Also, remember that if a card or other special ability contradicts the game's basic rules, the card/special ability has priority.

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No, you do NOT assign a maneuver.

The ship simply performs a white 1 straight maneuver.

Daredevil has your ship perform a white 1 hard turn maneuver.

There is never a maneuver or dial assigned to the ship.

If I live "as if" I'm a millionaire, it doesn't make me a millionaire.

Also, remember that if a card or other special ability contradicts the game's basic rules, the card/special ability has priority.

 

 

There's no need to be a jerk about things. Here's what the FAQ says exactly (seen here)

 

Some card abilities, such as the “Ion Cannon Turret” Upgrade card, can cause a ship to receive an ion token. A ship with an ion token assigned to it follows special rules during these phases:

• Planning Phase: The owner does not assign a maneuver dial to this ship.

• Activation Phase: The owner moves the ship as if it were assigned a white [ 1] maneuver. After executing this maneuver, remove all ion tokens from the ship. It may perform actions as normal.

• Combat Phase: The ship may attack as normal.

 

 

The confusion comes because it does not say "the ship performs a white [1] maneuver". It says "as if it were assigned". Notice the distinct difference in the terminology from Daredevil ("performs" versus "as if it were assigned").

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It says "as if it were assigned".

That is subjunctive. Which means the ship is not assigned the maneuver. It only moves like it were.

Exactly. That's where the confusion arose. They used a different expression than Daredevil, which FFG is usually good about keeping things consisten.

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I'm sorry, I was not meaning to come off as a jerk and I apologize if I did.
 
I was only trying to make it clear how the rules work to everyone who might read this discussion in the future.
 
I was trying to be extremely specific since, after I pointed out the relevant FAQ entry and how it specifically states that you don't assign a dial or a maneuver, you replied saying (emphasis mine):
 

As you noted, you do assign a maneuver (white 1 straight) from the FAQ, but not a dial. The rules also say you assign maneuvers via dials. So that's where I made the mistake.

 
Which is incorrect.

 

I understand where the confusion came from, I am simply trying to make this all as clear and non-confusing as possible for futur readers.

Perhaps this is what made me sound like a jerk.

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