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thedrubber

Tier 1 & 2 Items

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Flip the Campaign book over and look at the mission log. For each mission it says which Tier you can choose from. Then shuffle and draw 6 cards. 

 

The question here is what do you do when the rulebook states that you can choose from tiers 1 & 2 or 2 & 3?

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When the rulebook says to choose from 2 tiers, you draw 6 cards from each tier, giving you 12 cards to choose from:

 

"Rebel Upgrade Stage", RRG, Page 21:

 

If more than one Item deck is listed on the campaign log, players shuffle and draw six cards from each deck.

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I only drew 3 of each deck for quite some time until I saw in a pbf that I was wrong.

Even tho technically only JR and HoTE have the rule to draw half the (inital) deck, I use that rule for all campaigns, as it combats deck dilution.

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FAQ 2.3 has an entry for when playing with one or more expansions.

When 1 or more expansions are incorporated into an Imperial Assault campaign, Rebel players follow a different procedure during Rebel Upgrade Stages.


Rebel players no longer draw six cards from each Item deck listed in the campaign log. Instead, players should make note of the total number of cards in each Item deck at the start of the campaign. Then, during each Rebel Upgrade Stage, Rebel players draw a number of cards from each of the appropriate Item decks equal to half that number (rounded up) for the respective deck.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

^for that, typically I just shuffle the deck, then alternate making two piles- I let the Rebels blindly choose which pile they'd like

The disadvantage is the size of the shop reduces each mission because of items already purchased. Hence why you need to make a note, so you always draw the same amount.

but it is an interesting variant that I might consider...

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1 hour ago, neosmagus said:

The disadvantage is the size of the shop reduces each mission because of items already purchased. Hence why you need to make a note, so you always draw the same amount.

but it is an interesting variant that I might consider...

Huh, that's true- not how I originally interpreted it, but seems correct.

 

Also seems kinda finnicky, though.  With the sheer amount of options my Rebels have, I don't think they'll be at much disadvantage if I keep on this way anyway.  

 

But thanks for pointing this out!

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5 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

Huh, that's true- not how I originally interpreted it, but seems correct.

 

Also seems kinda finnicky, though.  With the sheer amount of options my Rebels have, I don't think they'll be at much disadvantage if I keep on this way anyway.  

 

But thanks for pointing this out!

I do the same. I just split the deck and give them half each time.

They're hardly at a disadvantage for getting one, two or maybe even three cards less to choose from, because at that point they're almost certainly into the tier 2 stuff anyways. (or tier 3 stuff)

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1 minute ago, Majushi said:

I do the same. I just split the deck and give them half each time.

They're hardly at a disadvantage for getting one, two or maybe even three cards less to choose from, because at that point they're almost certainly into the tier 2 stuff anyways. (or tier 3 stuff)

There are some abilities that add cards to the draw, so it can make a difference... And extra card will affect probability, especially if a Rebel is looking for a specific card or combo of cards

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1 minute ago, neosmagus said:

There are some abilities that add cards to the draw, so it can make a difference... And extra card will affect probability, especially if a Rebel is looking for a specific card or combo of cards

The abilities that add cards to the draw still work.

Split the deck in half, then from the unused half take cards as per the ability and add them to the available items.

One card out of, what, we've got like 24ish cards now? And what, four Tier 1 item draws in a campaign?

If you are holding out for one card, and don't see it in those four opportunities, maybe you're putting too much value on one card?

Oh noes. My strategies are now worthless, because I couldn't get this one specific card?

Please.

 

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Really just a debate on whether RAW is worth it.  It seems fiddly, and as @Majushi pointed out, the Rebels still have plenty of options in the long run.  In fact, now that HotE is out, the Rebels would have even more options via these rules than JR's change originally had apparently accounted for.

 

Jyn is in my group now, and she has smugglers luck.  When the Rebels choose their half of the deck, I take the top card off the other deck and add it to theirs.  As long as this stuff isn't maliciously done, or done in some sort of competitive setting, I don't see a problem with homeruling it for simplicity's sake.

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5 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

In fact, now that HotE is out, the Rebels would have even more options via these rules than JR's change originally had apparently accounted for.

I’m not sure what you mean by this.  

I think the point of the change just to ensure that 50% of the total is drawn each time, so regardless of how many expansions there are you’re always drawing exactly as many as intended.

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10 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

I’m not sure what you mean by this.  

I think the point of the change just to ensure that 50% of the total is drawn each time, so regardless of how many expansions there are you’re always drawing exactly as many as intended.

As written, sure.  And I get what you're saying, it's fair.

 

I guess what I mean is, imagine a world where we end up with 2-3 more boxed expansions, and maybe some item cards from blister packs (please, because that was one of the coolest parts of Wave 7!)

 

That would mean we could have as much as 10+ new items per tier, meaning an additional 5 cards drawn during every upgrade stage.   

I totally get that the more cards that are added to the game, the less likely it is that the Rebels will get the exact item that they're looking for, but as stated:

1) The Rebels should be adaptable.  If they're reliant on a single item out of dozens, their plan is already flawed

2) Even when the draw is at least near half (as in, our description) they're still likely to run across it.

 

And in the end, with the Rebels keeping their 1/2 draw of the total pot while increasing their draw numbers, I'd say it's pretty flawed.   After all, it's not like all of the new cards are garbage- with these new cards come some stuff that the Rebels might like just as much as what they previously would have sprung for.

I'm definitely not arguing my interpretation is valid (it's obviously not) nor does it even address all of the issues here.  I'm simply arguing that in an already flawed system, I might as well try to make the game less finnicky, and I don't think the Rebels really have that solid of a grievance against that.

Edited by subtrendy2

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1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

And in the end, with the Rebels keeping their 1/2 draw of the total pot while increasing their draw numbers, I'd say it's pretty flawed.   After all, it's not like all of the new cards are garbage- with these new cards come some stuff that the Rebels might like just as much as what they previously would have sprung for.

Yeah, I'm also not a huge fan of the current "fix" for the ever increasing number of item cards.  I think I heard someone mention a house rule where they have a few different "shops" the Rebels can visit with specific items at each shop.  That combined with some random element might be more appropriate.  It feels a bit more thematic that way, like going to an Arms dealer and seeing what they have, not all gear can be purchased in the same place.  Might be a fun way to add more control and decision making in item purchases.  On the flip side, the Imperial player must decide a set of 6 specific agenda decks at the beginning of the campaign and (under normal conditions) then only draw 4 cards.  The current item deck rules feel a bit off.

Off the cuff, thinking of maybe 3 different arms dealers per tier with a randomly selected set of items.  We're up to what, like 20-24ish items per tier now?  So you would add 8 or so items for each arms dealer to carry.  At the beginning of the Rebel upgrade stage, the Rebel players would decide who to visit.  Then randomly select 5 or maybe 6 items to be available in that shop.  Could also consider adding an option where the Rebels could request a specific item from the dealer's set of items for an increased cost of maybe 50 or 100 additional credits.  Probably would need some tweaking and play testing to see how this would actually work but I think it would be more fun than the current rules where you get a ton of cards every time and just wait for the best in slot items to show up.

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The other reason is that not all items are created equal, a good chunk are below the curve, and drawing a set amount from an ever increasing deck means there are greater chances you see 6 bad items. Increasing the draw count proportional to the deck size means Rebel players should theoretically only get screwed over by their own item choices instead by an unlucky draw.

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11 hours ago, Brigadierblu said:

I believe the reason why they included the rule to draw half the deck instead of six cards is because the core set only had twelve cards per tier. Six cards *was* half the deck.  The fix seems totally logical to me. 

Well yeah, obviously that's the reason for the fix.

the issue I have with the fix isn't giving them half. It's giving them half of the original total of the deck. Seems unnecessarily complicated.

each time they want to shop, I'll give them half of what's in the deck then and there. Makes it so much more easy to implement.

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