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emmjay

X-Wing 4th Faction

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It doesnt overwrite anything.  Besides the writters have already said that if anythings changed it will only be the fine details.

 Post Endor got wiped. The original Solo children no longer exist, Vong are gone. We don't know what's coming back. I imagine Thrawn will probably be back in some way, shape or form, but NJO, Legacy and Fate got paved over. It's pretty much the entire reason for the canon change. In Canon, post Endor is a mist right now.
  No it didn't get wiped.
I have been keeping up with what authors are saying about the EU, and yeah, post-Endor is basically gone. In December (or earlier, apparently) we're going to have an entirely new timeline for the post-Endor world.Timothy Zahn (also known as "the writer that created Thrawn") is my favorite EU author by a fairly large margin; although a lot of things would need to change substantially, many of his characters and possibly even some of the events in the Thrawn trilogy could survive in the new timeline. One of the reasons that's true, though, is that compared to the Vong invasion and the New Jedi Order they're set relatively close to Endor.But if you think a massive invasion by a group of improbably capable, extragalactic, sadist Luddites counts as a "fine detail" that can reasonably coexist with the new movies, then... honestly I don't know how to have a conversation with you, if that's the case.

Ill begin with your Zahn interview link. That's not where I got my information, if it were you would have sen him say he was going to repair any conflicts of information if it pops up.

Also you might have missed th artical from one of the rebels writers saying that the old eu is still canon as we'll as these articles.

"Star Wars EU is it really gone (published august 1st 2014) lendarium my middleearth.com

"Timity Zahn tor.com Star wars 7 exclusive:JamesLuceno on Tarkin & EU. Read the full interview the interviewer makes false claims in their comentary about the interview.

"Star Wars 7 exclusive: James Luceno on tarkin & EU read the full interview same reason as above

"Don't Wory the star wars expanded universe is not going away because of ep vii tor.com"

Also as waspointed out in another forum the way old eu is now treated its 2ndary canon type 1. It doesn't need to b refrenced to be canon, but can made none canon by contradictions. Also going by what authorshave said, it would oonly be the fine details tha are noncanon. Old eu if refrenced becomes primar canon like stuff including the emperors true throne world from dark empire being used in the tarkin novel. Also dark empire only takes place 6 years after rotj while ep 7 takes place like 30.

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At Wave 1, a bunch of you said they'd never do medium ships. Done (but they were named "large"). You said there'd never be huge ships. Done. You said there'd never be a third faction. Done. 

 

If FFG's planning it, it doesn't need to make sense to you how they go about it. So it's not a matter of how it would/wouldn't work—it's a matter of whether or not they're doing it.

 

Given the context, I think there's a precedent already for Smugglers and Spies, considering the LCG's faction model if nothing else. There's a clear delineation between the S&V and S&S factions. I'm willing to bet we'll see this eventually here. 

 

We have Scum/Imp Fett and Scum/Imp Scarlet now. Who's to say you couldn't have something like Smug/Reb Han and Smug/Reb Dash? Or Smug/Scum Emon?

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At Wave 1, a bunch of you said they'd never do medium ships. Done (but they were named "large"). You said there'd never be huge ships. Done. You said there'd never be a third faction. Done. 

 

If FFG's planning it, it doesn't need to make sense to you how they go about it. So it's not a matter of how it would/wouldn't work—it's a matter of whether or not they're doing it.

Don't you have to apply this to your own argument?

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At Wave 1, a bunch of you said they'd never do medium ships. Done (but they were named "large"). You said there'd never be huge ships. Done. You said there'd never be a third faction. Done. 

 

If FFG's planning it, it doesn't need to make sense to you how they go about it. So it's not a matter of how it would/wouldn't work—it's a matter of whether or not they're doing it.

Don't you have to apply this to your own argument?

 

Heh Heh ZING!!

 

At Wave 1, a bunch of you said they'd never do medium ships. Done (but they were named "large"). You said there'd never be huge ships. Done. You said there'd never be a third faction. Done. 

 

If FFG's planning it, it doesn't need to make sense to you how they go about it. So it's not a matter of how it would/wouldn't work—it's a matter of whether or not they're doing it.

 

Given the context, I think there's a precedent already for Smugglers and Spies, considering the LCG's faction model if nothing else. There's a clear delineation between the S&V and S&S factions. I'm willing to bet we'll see this eventually here. 

 

We have Scum/Imp Fett and Scum/Imp Scarlet now. Who's to say you couldn't have something like Smug/Reb Han and Smug/Reb Dash? Or Smug/Scum Emon?

God forbid some of us speculate a different future than you...are you privy to information we dont know?  You seem awfully certain based on a game that, outside of license, has nothing to do with this one...detractors have presented evidence relevant to XWING, supporters only ever seem to site evidence from the LCG or some other game FFG makes...so I think I know where my money is right now...Could I be wrong in my speculation that there wont be a 4th faction at some point?  Sure I have been before...but detractors to this idea have presented good arguments regarding where XWING stands for your situation to possibly not be the case...all I ever hear from the people who what a 4th faction boils down to "well in the LCG"...and if you really want to convince us simply pointing to the LCG isnt going to work...Ill ask you...who would this faction encompass that cannot be encompassed in the existing factions?  What could this faction do that would make it stand out from the existing factions (not a single supporter has given any kind of real answer to this question that I have seen).  Its gotta be more than S+V but not bad guys...

 

Maybe they can reutilize characters and throw them into a new faction...but that would be **** lazy...I am thinking Boba and Kath are going to be a fluke...S+V couldnt exist without them and when they were first released I dont think the devs ever anticipated a 3rd faction.  I dont think they should take making different versions of the same character for different factions lightly...that can wreck immersion (and that was one of the few things that bugged me about the Resident Evil Deck building game) and it screams lack of creativity...they are better than that, for evidence of this i point to the raider...if they do start constantly recycling characters I, personally, may very well be done...as that points to an unsustainably low remaining amount of content...

 

Part of the reason so many come out against this idea, i think, is the first 4th faction threads began appearing hours...ill say it again HOURS!! after the 3rd was announced...and the prime argument (as I have seen it and I have been following this from the beginning) is "well in the LCG..."  I have some news for you...this isnt the LCG and from what I have read...it doesnt play like it.

 

In the end we will see, we have just as much right to be certain of our conviction as you do...but I think the current evidence rests mostly on our side...but we will see...if your idea does ever happen I wouldnt bank on it happening anytime soon...they have a new faction to fill out and a whole new saga just on the horizon come the end of the year...maybe there is a new faction in there that makes more sense than "S+V but not bad guys."

 

Now I would suggest everyone go and enjoy their new faction (i for one wont be getting any of this wave till i see it hit a good good sale...outside of auto thrusters I have zero interest in this wave or any scum for that matter) and stop begging for yet another one...if a 4th faction ever is announced it will be mere minutes until people are clamoring for a 5th faction...Ill place a bet on that.

 

EDIT: Had a double quote in there.

Edited by ShakeZoola72

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At Wave 1, a bunch of you said they'd never do medium ships. Done (but they were named "large"). You said there'd never be huge ships. Done. You said there'd never be a third faction. Done.

I'm entirely willing to admit that I might end up being wrong! It won't be the first time.

But I still don't think FFG is planning a fourth faction. The third faction happened because FFG had:

  • A need to slow down Rebel and Imperial releases.
  • A great deal of source material that was an awkward fit for either existing faction
  • Unexpectedly high demand warranting raising the company's investment in the X-wing line

But none of those things are true when you start talking about adding a fourth faction.

 

Given the context, I think there's a precedent already for Smugglers and Spies, considering the LCG's faction model if nothing else.

Saying "...if nothing else" implies there might be something else. Is there anything else creating a precedent for a fourth faction in X-wing Miniatures?

 

There's a clear delineation between the S&V and S&S factions. I'm willing to bet we'll see this eventually here.

But there isn't. One or two pilots in every single expansion in Wave 6 would be identified with "Smugglers and Spies" if that faction existed, and that's what you'd call a precedent. If that continues into Wave 7, there will be a dozen or so pilots that would have to be reprinted. Moreover, some of the pilots you've identified elsewhere in your post as potential S&S pilots--Han, for instance--would then be able to be flown in opposition to the Rebellion, which I'm fairly sure Lucasfilm Licensing would oppose.

And there's also the problem of finding unique ships. There is currently four ships' worth of overlap between the original factions and Scum, as well as three unique Scum ships (and presumably more coming). What unique ships would be part of a "Smugglers and Spies" faction?

So while it's not impossible that we'll see a fourth faction, but there's no reason to expect to see one, and lots of reasons that it seems unlikely.

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It's not that a 4th faction is impossible, but let's look from a different perspective:

Large ships were created to solve a problem. Specifically, the problem of getting the Falcon into the game.

Huge ships were created to solve a problem: how to get the Tantive into the game.

The Raider was created to solve a problem: how to get a Star Destroyer into the game.

The 3rd Faction was created to solve a problem: how to get iconic ships like the Aggressor and StarViper into the game, without diluting the Rebel or Imperial factions.

So: what problem is solved by creating a 4th faction? What ships do you want to see that would be an uncomfortable fit in the other 3 factions? I'm sure you can come up with ships to fill such a faction, but do you need that faction for those ships?

So far, I can't think of any ships that require a 4th faction. I could be wrong, I could be overlooking something, but right now, I see a huge vein of great material waiting to be mined in the current 3 factions.

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Okay.

 

You guys done yet ? I offered an opinion. You want to keep bashing at it, or just let it go?

C'mon, man.  Your post basically called people out with a smug "a bunch of you said _______ would never happen" comments, over and over again.  You can't really be too surprised when folks rise to the bait and engage in spirited conversation.  You got the fight you asked for.

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Wanting/thinking there will be a fourth faction is one thing. Just don't use the faulty logic of the LCG. At best, it may show potential art they might choose to reuse in this game. 

 

I didn't say I wanted it, and I didn't claim that it's coming. I said I expected it, that's all.

 

 

 

Okay.

 

You guys done yet ? I offered an opinion. You want to keep bashing at it, or just let it go?

C'mon, man.  Your post basically called people out with a smug "a bunch of you said _______ would never happen" comments, over and over again.  You can't really be too surprised when folks rise to the bait and engage in spirited conversation.  You got the fight you asked for.

 

 

The preceding arguments were all based on why this wouldn't work. Historically, FFG makes something work whether we figure it out or not. That's all I was saying there. I also think it's more likely than not we'll have a 4th. I may be wrong. That's fine—I don't care either way.

 

I definitely wasn't looking for a fight.

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Okay.

 

You guys done yet ? I offered an opinion. You want to keep bashing at it, or just let it go?

It's a discussion forum, and we're discussing. I'm not even remotely irritated with you, and after rereading my post I don't think my writing comes across as annoyed.

If you want to be done with the discussion, that's okay too. But it's kind of a cop-out to post your opinion publicly and then feel aggrieved just because people--politely, even!--disagree with you.

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Okay.

 

You guys done yet ? I offered an opinion. You want to keep bashing at it, or just let it go?

It's a discussion forum, and we're discussing. I'm not even remotely irritated with you, and after rereading my post I don't think my writing comes across as annoyed.

If you want to be done with the discussion, that's okay too. But it's kind of a cop-out to post your opinion publicly and then feel aggrieved just because people--politely, even!--disagree with you.

 

 

Polite disagreement causes me no grief. I have no quarrel with you, Mister Sword.  

 

However, the context since my initial post so far is unanimous disagreement, and some of it not at all polite. I am aggrieved by that

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Based on what I have read so far, it seems like the main issue I am seeing is that a lot of people don't like the idea of this being like the Star Wars minis game from a while back where you had about a dozen factions ranging from Ancient Sith to The Galactic Alliance. I think the easiest way to handle this is to do tournaments featuring on some of the factions, like only clones vs droids tournament or vong vs Galactic Alliance. I do agree though that anything added in that is not in the Rebellion Era would hurt the feel to the game. So the only thing I can think of is adding a Merc faction that can be used with the other three factions. 

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It's not that a 4th faction is impossible, but let's look from a different perspective:

Large ships were created to solve a problem. Specifically, the problem of getting the Falcon into the game.

Huge ships were created to solve a problem: how to get the Tantive into the game.

The Raider was created to solve a problem: how to get a Star Destroyer into the game.

The 3rd Faction was created to solve a problem: how to get iconic ships like the Aggressor and StarViper into the game, without diluting the Rebel or Imperial factions.

So: what problem is solved by creating a 4th faction? What ships do you want to see that would be an uncomfortable fit in the other 3 factions? I'm sure you can come up with ships to fill such a faction, but do you need that faction for those ships?

So far, I can't think of any ships that require a 4th faction. I could be wrong, I could be overlooking something, but right now, I see a huge vein of great material waiting to be mined in the current 3 factions.

Three factions makes the universe seem too confined?

There are unaligned forces in the galaxy.

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Until someone can come up with a list of ships that:

  • has sufficient iconic fighters (it's easy to collect freighters,but that's not enough from a gameplay standpoint)
  • has named pilots for its ships (at least 2 for small, 3 for large)
  • has sufficient total ships to approach or attempt wave parity

new factions are out. As it stands, I believe the only things that can get close are the prequel factions, which have ~5 waves of ships.

 

And that's disregarding whatever FFG's timeframe settings are, though with TFA stuff being +30, the prequel stuff is roughly -30, and they are a wave or two from running out of viable ships unless they want to spam larges with minimal unique pilots.

Edited by Tipperary

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Until someone can come up with a list of ships that:

  • has sufficient iconic fighters (it's easy to collect freighters,but that's not enough from a gameplay standpoint)
  • has named pilots for its ships (at least 2 for small, 3 for large)
  • has sufficient total ships to approach or attempt wave parity

new factions are out. As it stands, I believe the only things that can get close are the prequel factions, which have ~5 waves of ships.

 

And that's disregarding whatever FFG's timeframe settings are, though with TFA stuff being +30, the prequel stuff is roughly -30, and they are a wave or two from running out of viable ships unless they want to spam larges with minimal unique pilots.

Ain't nothing iconic in TFA but they got two new factions.

Oh those are sub-factions? Well then, let's introduce a bunch of those!

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