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BarbeChenue

Many, many rules and adjudication questions

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Sorry in advance for the long bullet point list.

 

A while ago, I came off as (perhaps) a little too ranting when I came out of a game session. I had a bucket list of adjudication questions I couldn't find the answer for, and I blamed the ruleset for "having to eyeball everything". Now, after many more hours I realize I LOVE the ruleset, my group loves it too, and I didn't listen to a lot of Order 66 podcasts. My past experience with d20 games, GURPS, Shadowrun, and other "a rule for every situation" games had clouded me the benefits of ambiguity and excessive micromanagement that didn't necessarily translate into more enjoyment at the table. I realize that now.

 

But, in a constructive spirit, I can't but come out of game sessions, as a GM, with quite a few questions I noted while GMing. I'm trying hard to create a fair and balanced experience with the rules and setting, but not every question can be answered with a "as the plot requires" answer, since consistency does have its perks in the long run. The Star Wars universe is full of so many interesting elements, including a ton that you can't infer from real world science or common sense, that I end up wanting to know a lot of things about it to generate a consistent world with believable characters involving logical and sensible motivations. I think it helps the suspension of disbelief and general sense of immersion if I do answer them in the player's interest.

 

So, here a few rules and GM adjudication questions I had after our last weekly 16-hour-long marathon...

 

  1. Using Move to tear metal beams and other terrain features out of the way, Galen Marek-style: how far would you let players tear duracrete/durasteel walls, floors, ceilings, antennas, blast doors, etc. If one has enough force pips to lift a freighter or three, would you allow him to bend metal, and if yes, how you you limit it?
  2. Similarly, a player asked if he could Force Move starships in space, from spaceship to spaceship.
  3. This made me think of Force powers and Line of Sight. How do you adjudicate out of sight targets? For the moment, I tell my players that Force sense, with enough rage upgrades, would allow them to "sense" their target, and immediately after using Sense, use other powers on what they Sense.
  4. Beyond extreme range, if someone keeps putting more pips into more range bands, would you allow Force powers to reach planetary-scale range bands like Close or Short?
  5. What happens when you use Misdirect to hide vehicles? Do you allow it? Can this make a group of passengers unseen? What about terrain features, walls and such? I told my players that for the moment they needed the Force illusion upgrades to affect terrain, like doors or windows.
  6. What do you do versus Hit and Run tactics employed by the PCs, using line of sight and solid cover to move-attack-move back? I have a player who uses this tactic a lot, and clears whole rooms without getting hit back (other PCs end up "tanking" for him). What should I make my NPCs do versus that, tactically, so that their own tactics rival with that? This hit-and-run tactic seems to be ways better than using cover, depending on the terrain feature (forest or duracrete walls). I know it is Strain intensive, but usually fights are over at that point.
  7. A pretty common question: managing players with high dice pools + Jury Rigged + Autofire. I don't want to house rule anything, because the player did everything by the book, but he easily deals between 50 and 135 damage per round, and with the ability to get Breach 1 once per session (Hired Gun -> Heavy), he can clear entire rooms, and not just minions. How can I keep challenging the party without upping the WT/Soak of enemies (which would direly affect the less optimized PCs and increase the gap).
  8. Do you house rule the Pressure Points talent (Doctor)? I'm thinking in advance here. I'd like to hear what people think.
  9. How do you manage PCs (ab)using skill checks for strain recovery? I've noticed players using their high skill checks, either in combat or out of combat, to regain Strain by intentionally attempting tasks they can easily succeed. The most obvious instances are easy to spot, but with skills like Perception, it's less blatant.
  10. While the rules usually allow for only one skill check per action, there are exceptions and cases where a PC might be able to roll two (or more!) dice pools in one round. When PCs use multiple skill checks in one round: do you let players recover/lose strain for each, do you activate all Triumphs this might generate? For example: opposed skill checks on some Force powers, like Move for ex., involve a skill (Discipline vs. Athletics) to Disarm someone, and then a ranged attack using Discipline to hit someone with the now out-of-grasp item. Another example is a Piloting check used as a maneuver in the same round as a Gunnery check (and, spending System Strain + Strain, he may even use a second maneuver and have a second Piloting check). This creates more than one instance where players can "regain Strain". And also, opportunities for Triumphs, Despairs, Threats, etc. But sometimes, the risk of Despair is not big enough to compensate for the perks a bunch of advantages/triumphs may warrant. Do you simply disallow the use of those to the PCs? Do you let them regain Strain or else? Do you narrate all those results?
  11. Do you roll only one dice pool when a PC attempts a task versus opponents of diverse skill levels? Whats the consistent way to adjudicate opposed checks versus groups?
  12. How do you determine who has to spend an action doing a Perception check or doing a Stealth check? How do you "reverse" all those dice pools?
  13. How extensively (or not) do you allow passive 'no-action-required' Perception/Vigilance/Resilience/Athletics/Coordination/Discipline/Cool/etc., and if so, how do you treat all those results generated if it's mostly advantages and Triumphs.
  14. In general, there are situations when you are turning your skills into Red/Purple, and other times you have to roll Green/Yellow versus similar effects. How do you tell who is acting/reacting? This is especially important with Talents benefiting only defensive or offensive uses of a skill.
  15. Do you turn Boost Dice into Setback Dice (and vice versa) when Talents/Items/etc. grant them to skills that are used "in reverse"? How far do you "reverse" dice pools? Are you fairly strict or more open about doing that?
  16. How far above the Strain threshold do you track Strain, or is this irrelevant? Do you make Strain in excess of ST overflow into Wound Threshold at some point? I'm thinking Stun settings of Blasters, and Ion weapons (incl. vehicle-mounted) versus Droids. They can generate a LOT of Strain at once.
  17. Can vehicles attack targets that are engaged with them (at "Engaged" personal range)? Do you use the personal scale with ground vehicles like Walkers? How do you adjudicate meleers versus vehicles? Can they start attacking parts/components? How do you rule the often seen "hop on the tank, lift the hatch, throw grenade", "hop on, lightsaber the hull, enter the tank, kill the crew" or the general targeting or components using personal weapons?
  18. Do Crits from personal weapon affect Vehicles? Can this result in a skillful player blowing up a Walker simply stacking crits on them?
  19. Detectors, scanners, both on ships and held by PCs: how do you rule ranges, how much detail do you allow, how much does it "see through"? Do you require checks for items that "detect lifeforms all around you" or "detect any movement"? How do you manage player expectations vs. spoiling the fun/plot ?
  20. And lastly, a pet peeve of mine: communications across the Galaxy. What items/gear/infrastructure (apart from the Imperial HoloNet) allows comms across sectors/systems (subspace & far), through hyperspace (hyperspace & far), and between subspace and hyperspace (far)? I've been ambiguous with the PCs up to that point, but now that they captured a non-Imperial communication tower, I'd like to know what it can or cannot contact.
    • Edit: I may have found an answer in Suns of Fortune:

      [...] Long-Range Transceiver (p.100)

      «[...]hypertransceivers are used for nearly instantaneous, faster-than-light communications between star systems. While not as advanced and efficient as those linked in to the HoloNet, hypertransceivers can send messages several light years, [...] Most planets in the galaxy are integrated into a local subspace network independent of the galaxy-spanning HoloNet, with hyperspace transceivers on deep-space relay satellites to create sector-wide communications grid. Most starships have hypertransceivers to send long-range messages and transmit distress signals. [...] Utilizing local subspace systems, [...] transceivers can potentially send a message anywhere in the galaxy, routing the transmission across networks. [...]»

 

God, that's a looong list. I'm sorry if it's all bunched up, but I didn't want to start 20 threads...

Edited by BarbeChenue

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Afraid I can only help on a few of these and these are just my personal take on the situations.

 

6: Think what a modern military force would do...call in indirect fire or use grenades to force things out of hiding. You don't have to hit the actual target, just an area next to them and the blast damage may make them think twice about their tactics.
7: The FFG guys say it is perfectly legit and I tend to agree with them. If you have a person on the battlefield with a heavy machine gun (equivalent of a heavy blaster rifle with auto fire triggered), they are going to lay waste to anything that was stupid enough to be out in the open and allow for line of sight. They also make themselves a primary target simply by having that weapon.

9: I've thankfully not encountered this problem with my players. They all make the proper strain recovery roll after the encounters with their Cool check. I call for the skill checks for situations, rather than them saying they are going to make a check. Invariably if it is a check that isn't needed it counts as a Simple check which is counted as having one success only, thus they wouldn't roll anything for it.

10: I like to get my players to think of alternative uses for their advantages. The stuff in the tables in the books and on the GM screens are just there as suggestions, not as something you have to pick from every time. Invariably my players end up coming up with fun ideas to use advantage for while keeping one or two advantage left over to recover a couple strain.

11: If you have multiple opponents being effected via a roll, e.g. stealth vs. perception, take the opponent with the highest skill check in that category and just use their roll. If they don't see it, safe to say the others with lower checks won't!

12: See 11.

13: Passive checks are deemed as Simple checks, require no roll, and are assumed to succeed with only one success.

14: Can you clarify? Surely you know who is acting/reacting because they are the target of the attack or skill check?

15: Yes, if you are making an opposed check, yellows turn to reds, greens to purples, and blues to blacks.

16: If you exceed strain threshold you are unconscious. No need to keep tracking it as you are out cold and unable to be effected by things that would induce further strain (unless some idiot keeps repeatedly shooting you with a stun weapon...in which case, as GM, make something bad happen to that person).

17: Most vehicle weapons are Gunnery based and you cannot attack engaged targets with Gunnery based weapons. If they are equipped with Ranged Heavy or Ranged Light, then they can use those but with the difficulty increased as per the rules.

18: You can only Crit if you do damage to the actual wounds/hull. Thus if someone is shooting a personal weapon at a vehicle, they are very unlikely to get through the vehicle's armour unless it is something light like a speeder bike. If you have someone using some heavy personal scale weapon that would actually get through the armour (remember 1 armour on a vehicle soaks 10 damage from personal scale) then they can score a critical if they rolled sufficient advantage or a triumph. Use the vehicle crit table for your rolls.

19: Generally most scanners in game have fluff pieces that give you an indication on their capabilities. For ship based scanners, play it as what best fits story. We know from books and films that things interfere with the scanners (hence why Han hid in an asteroid in Empire). This is one of those things where story trumps rules, so go with what is fun.

20: Think you answered your own question for that one! In my games, if the players do not have access to some powerful communications then they aren't going to be sending anything out further than orbit. Again, play based on what fits your story best.

 

Sorry I could only answer a few!

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Thanks for the answers! I didn't expect people would try to answer them all. :)

 

#14: To clarify, it's basically the whole Coercion vs. Cool/Discipline, Stealth vs. Perception/Vigilance, etc. Sometimes there are even talents that muddy the waters, that only mention one way or another, and sometimes both... Who's being active when it's not clear who is the active initiator of an opposed check, basically.

 

 

I (sadly) got a 21st question, which I forgot to list earlier on:

 

What do you do when players either:

1) want to each roll their skill against a check (like having a Skulduggery check to open a door, or Perception checks), do you allow 4 PCs to each roll? Up to this point, I've tackled those like retries that could only be attempted after a new event has come up, or there's a good reason to. Usually, only the highest skill PC attempts a check as a matter... which has led to...

2) do you allow PCs to add more than one "Assist" Boost Die to out-of-combat checks? (social, environmental, etc.) My players have begun "ganging up" and try to justify adding up to three "Assist" Boost Dice on several checks. I've been cautiously allowing 1 or 2 per check, when justified. How do you deal with that?

Edited by BarbeChenue

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Both those situations are normally dealt with via story. Perhaps the person that failed their Skulduggery check to open a door inadvertently damaged the mechanisms, so subsequent checks will add setback dice. If you called a Perception check for one person, then you did so for a specific reason (like that person is the only one with line of sight), so having other people in the team make a Perception check because that one person failed shouldn't happen. Also, the players shouldn't be attempting Perception checks because someone failed as they don't know that there is something there to try and spot!

 

Assist checks are normally only one or two people able to help. Depending on the situation, you could theoretically have more, or you could have none. For example, an Astrogation check I always rule that only one other person can help as only one other person can fit in front of the computer to help input the data. However, in a battle, the entire team could try and do supressing fire as their assistance adding a whole lot of boost dice to the person who is wanting to try something. If a doctor is doing surgery, they often have an entire team of people in the room, so you could have a number of people with suggestions and pieces of advice....or you could rule that having such information overload in that situation is actually a bad thing and throw in a setback dice.

There are also situations where multiple people can assist, and it is in RaW, when they aren't even in the same place. Ship combat is a good example, with one gunner sacrificing a good shot to "assist" by firing at a target to force it into the targeting brackets of the other gunner, meanwhile someone is giving a pep talk on the internal coms (via Leadership checks for Fire Discipline), and the pilot could have done a Stay on Target manoeuvre to help. While this isn't stacking boost dice, it is an example of rules playing out as a way of everyone assisting one person to get a massive help on their next shot.

Edited by Max Outrider

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Crap... 9 points into a lengthy answer and Firefox crashed. Ah well, here we go again...

 

1. I'd allow him to clear away loose debris, the amount depending on how many Force pips he got. For bending metal and forcing closed doors open I'd require 10-12 Force pips, making him spend several rounds to accumulate enough. Or simply not allow it.

 

2. Move only works on personal scale, not planetary scale. So with two ships 5,000 kilometres apart he could shift one 10 metres or so. Repeat as necessary until the character dies from old age.

 

3. Simple rule of thumb: If you can't see it, you can't affect it.

 

4. I would not allow this.

 

5. Again, this would be a no.

 

6. I practice a simple rule for this at my table: Any character that makes an attack check of any kind against another character is visible and open to return fire until his next turn. Combat isn't one character after another acting in a strict one-follows-another sequence, it's a bunch of things happening all at once over a time period of up to one minute per round. It doesn't matter if a PC says he "jumps back behind the wall"; all the NPCs targeting him just happens to do so during the time he's exposed taking his action. Or you could just have an NPC circle around his cover and shoot/hit him around it.

 

7. Before we began play I informed all my players about a very simple rule I practice: "If you do it, I'll do it too. If you don't do it, I won't do it first." I'd suggest first sitting down with your players and giving them the same line; if they stop using that "exploit", you won't use it either. If they're not receptive to this, start throwing 4-5 rivals or nemeses with heavy blaster rifles, Jury Rigged and high dice pools into each encounter. I promise you, your players will find it getting old pretty fast. 

 

8. I have a player in my group who is a Doctor/Gadgeteer. She has a background as a hardcore online MMO-player and has some strong min-maxing tendencies (and she also lurks on these forums; Hi, Kim :P). I let her add Anatomy Lesson when she wants to (and has the Destiny points to) but not Deadly Accuracy. If she took Marauder I would likewise not allow Feral Strength to stack, or Walk the Walk from Enforcer. My in-game reason is that Pressure Point is about finesse, precision and knowledge of anatomy rather than brute strength or dirty tricks; the metagaming reason is that it's already a very, very powerful talent that doesn't need to be improved upon further. 

 

9. Not a problem so far in my group. If it became one, I'd rule that only physically demanding skill checks could count towards recovering strain. Or limit it to specific skills - Discipline, Cool and Resilience, for example.

 

10. As for strain recovery, see point 9. And yes, as long as the skill checks "matter" to the story I narrate the results. I don't know how you do this, but at my table the active character always narrates his/her own Advantages and Triumphs while the "opposition" narrates Threat and Despair. This cuts down considerably on my workload as a GM. Oh, and hey - if your players have too many positive dice you need to hand out setback dice like it was candy. And flip a Destiny point to upgrade the difficulty. And hand out some more setback dice. Did I mention setback dice?

 

11. I let them roll agains the best opponent(s), with some setback dice thrown in as applicable for multiple opponents. If the opposing group is in any way coordinating their efforts (such as a group of guards keeping an eye out for intruders) I create a difficulty pool based on the highest skill, the highest characteristic, and a setback dice for each additional guard beyond those two.

 

12. In the case of Perception checks or similar I always tell my players, "anyone who wants to can make a (for example) Hard: Perception check". They all know I'll find a way to use any Threat against them, so typically only the best ones will check. Though sometimes less skilled players will also check, knowing that Threat might mean something exciting happening, which is fine by me. You don't want to frighten less-than-optimized characters away from participating; refer "failing forward" and all that. As for Stealth checks anyone sneaking has to roll, in sequence, and as per the core rules they pass on successes beyond their first to the guy coming up behind them. The first one who comes up a net failure gets spotted. This has the (quite realistic) effect of having the best stealthers take point and wave the less able PCs forward once the path is clear.

 

13. I don't quite understand what you mean by "passive no-action-required".

 

14. Most often I let the players be the active characters - it's their story, after all. But this is a little situational.

 

15. I tend to reverse them, yes. Again, this sort of situation requires a certain degree of situational adaptation.

 

16. I track up to and including the strain hit that puts the character above the threshold, but stop tracking after they're down. Once the encounter is over anyone still standing will typically revive downed characters in some way, at which point I consider the strained-out ones to be right at their threshold unless someone's done something to lower it further.

 

17. This is another one of those case-by-case situations. If the Engaged character is standing in a place that will logically let the vehicle shoot him (such as directly in front of an AT-ST) then sure, it can attack. If he's not (such as sitting atop the AT-ST's command module) then obviously not. For this one you just have to apply common sense. Meleeing vehicles isn't normally an issue, since you're unlikely to do more than scratch the paint, but if someone is wielding a Breach weapon I just resolve it as a normal attack. If a player could give me a good, convincing description of how he attacks a specific component I'd allow it (unless it messed with the story) and just improvise the effects. Someone with a lightsaber cutting his way into a tank and killing the crew I'd run as regular combat, with LOTS AND LOTS of setback dice and multiple difficulty upgrades for waving a lightsaber around in such cramped conditions.

 

18. He can, but remember that he needs to be above the armour rating and inflict actual damage in order to trigger a Critical Hit. So the chance of someone critting an AT-AT to death with a blaster rifle are pretty much nonexistent.

 

19. It's situational. Using a life form scanner in a desert will get you better range and more clear results than using the same scanner in a dense jungle (lots and lots of life) or aboard a starship (lots of interference from electronics). I typically use a skill check, with difficulty and setback dice as determined by the general area and local conditions. The amount of detail is directly proportional to the number of successes/advantage/triumphs.

 

20. Only the holonet (which is restricted to Imperial use only) and the hypertransceivers that you found. Note that hypertransceivers are not instantaneous, and the greater the distance, the worse the lag.

 

21. One PC gets to roll a skill once. If they absolutely insist that someone else can try, I typically pile on 2-3 setback dice and/or a difficulty upgrade or increase, stating that the previous guy who failed messed it up for the next one. I typically allow assists when there is physical room for more than one person, and it makes sense. When you pop open a small alarm panel to rewire it there isn't physically room for 5 guys to work on it together. If you want to assist someone slicing into a computer, you need another terminal hooked up to the same files he's trying to access - two people cannot effectively share the same keyboard. If you're following someone's tracks in the jungle, having 6 people with no tracking skills messing around isn't going to be a help, it's going to be a hindrance when they trample all over the tracks. A good rule of thumb for complicated situations is to only allow assistance from people who have at least one rank in the relevant skill, thereby ensuring that they at least have a clue what they're doing.

 

Whew... that took a while. This time I'll copy the blasted thing before I hit "add reply"; I'm not typing all this a third time. :blink:

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I'll take a crack at some of these.

 

1) Unless the PC has the specific Control Upgrade to pull secure items loose, then Move is limited to unsecured objects.  As for what they could tear loose, that would be a GM call, but I'd probably restrict them to Silhouette 2 and then flip a destiny point to upgrade the difficulty, so that if a Despair comes up... well, the PC just ripped out a chunk of a load-bearing wall or support strut, which is going to cause some serious problems, particularly if the location is a space station.\

 

2) Nope, Move is pretty much limited to personal scale in terms of range.

 

3) For the most part, if the Force user can see the target, they can affect it... provided they have sufficient range to do so.  Just because I can just barely make out a stormtrooper at long range doesn't mean I can use Sense to pick up his emotional state or surface thoughts unless I also have purchased and activated the necessary Range Upgrades.

 

4) No.  The Force & Destiny Beta made a pretty specific update to the Battle Meditation power to allow it to operate at vehicle scale, so by default Force powers only work at character scale.  That being said, extreme range is pretty far, so your personal scale combat encounters shouldn't be occurring at vehicle-scale ranges to start with.

 

5) It would depend on the vehicle.  Personally, I don't see Misdirect as being true invisibility but rather the Force user making the target overlook the targeted person/object; sort of a "not my problem/business" aura as discussed in the Hitchhiker's Guide series.  As for hiding the passengers inside, I don't see why not, but probably wouldn't let the power affect any tracks/trail the vehicle is leaving.

 

6) If you're talking about a melee combatant, he's only at short range from the person he attacked, so the adversary can probably just shoot him.  Though it also sounds like part of the problem is that you're making cover too good.  Simply limit cover to that single setback die, or two setback dice if it's really good cover.  Cover in this game should never enable any character, PC or NPC to be completely immune to attacks.  Also, you can spend Advantage on your NPC's attack rolls to force a given target out of cover, negating the defensive bonus for that current round.

 

7) That's a tough one, and I'm running into that problem as well as I've got a PC with a heavy blaster rifle, plenty of ranks in Ranged (Heavy), and the Instinctive Shot talent to let him use his FR 2 to really deliver the pain.  Per RAW, the only thing you can really do is simply throw more/larger minion groups to tie this guy up.  Or, you as the GM can simply house-rule that Jury-Rigged doesn't work on activated weapon qualities (a tact that several GMs on this forum have taken).  Or, you can go the route of "sauce for the goose" and have a Nemesis show up with this exact same combination, only even more ranks in Ranged (Heavy), and give the PC a dose of their own medicine, but that's more likely to result in upset players.

 

8) Nope.  It takes a pretty dedicated build to really abuse the talent in the first place, and there's worst set-ups to abuse the rules (such as the afore-mentioned Autofire+Jury Rigged combo).

 

9) It's part of the system.  And given strain is generally limited resource, it's very much an intentional part of the system that as the PCs get more and more competent, they're not going to be as stressed out (i.e. running low on strain) as they were when they started out.

 

10) In this system, each skill check is an Action, and characters only get a single Action on their turn.  There are talents whose major benefit is to allow the PC to make a certain skill check as a Maneuver.  It sounds like half your problem is that you're allowing the PCs to spend Maneuvers to make skill checks, which is wrong.  Same applies with activating Force powers, as using the power is that character's Action for the turn.

 

11) One roll using one dice pool, using the highest difficulty dice pool, particularly if it's an opposed check, though I might add one or more setback dice to the difficulty if trying to affect multiple people with that skill check.... provided their not using a talent or ability (such as Inspiring Rhetoric or Scathing Tirade) that automatically allows for affecting multiple targets (but then those talents have a set difficulty anyway).

 

12) Have the guard make the Perception check.  This is discussed in the first chapter of each of the core rulebooks, but you simply flip the PC's dice into their equivalent negative dice.  Ability becomes difficulty, proficiency becomes challenge, boost becomes setback.

 

13) Not at all.  If the PC is making a skill check, it's their action, pure and simple.

 

14) That's a GM call, and there's no hard and fast rule to bail you out on that.

 

15) See #12 above.

 

16) I go with twice the character's Strain Threshold, much like wounds don't go past twice the listed Wound Threshold.

 

17) Close range is pretty much considered to cover "engaged' (which doesn't really apply in vehicle combat anyway).  Close range in vehicle scale combat ranges from "just beyond the limit of extreme range" to "rubbing up against each other," particularly for ground-based craft such as speeder bikes and pod racers.

 

18) They could, but you've still got to deal enough damage to get past the vehicle's Armor rating.  Do that, and even if the attack doesn't do enough damage to inflict actual hull trauma, and you can trigger a critical hit on the vehicle.

 

19) General-purpose scanner I allow out to work out to Long Range, hand-held are short range, and vehicles use the range listed in their write-up.  As for level of detail, I keep it very basic, and yes it requires a skill check, generally Computers, to get useful information, though again it's very basic unless the PC spends Advantages to pick out important details.

 

20) Aside from the long range transceiver you mentioned, you'd need dedicated equipment to access the HoloNet, something that most starships really don't have, particularly during the Rebellion Era when the Empire has restricted HoloNet communications to Imperial military vessels such as the various Star Destroyers.  Beyond that, the lore is pretty nebulous, with a number of folks equating the holonet to being the Star Wars equivalent of the internet.  There may well be local planetary holonet set-ups, but the common citizen wouldn't have access to the real-time communication benefits of the galactic-level holonet, and thus would have to resort to the SW equivalent of e-mail to communicate with people in other parts of the galaxy.

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Thanks for the answers! I didn't expect people would try to answer them all. :)

 

#14: To clarify, it's basically the whole Coercion vs. Cool/Discipline, Stealth vs. Perception/Vigilance, etc. Sometimes there are even talents that muddy the waters, that only mention one way or another, and sometimes both... Who's being active when it's not clear who is the active initiator of an opposed check, basically.

 

 

I (sadly) got a 21st question, which I forgot to list earlier on:

 

What do you do when players either:

1) want to each roll their skill against a check (like having a Skulduggery check to open a door, or Perception checks), do you allow 4 PCs to each roll? Up to this point, I've tackled those like retries that could only be attempted after a new event has come up, or there's a good reason to. Usually, only the highest skill PC attempts a check as a matter... which has led to...

2) do you allow PCs to add more than one "Assist" Boost Die to out-of-combat checks? (social, environmental, etc.) My players have begun "ganging up" and try to justify adding up to three "Assist" Boost Dice on several checks. I've been cautiously allowing 1 or 2 per check, when justified. How do you deal with that?

Per the multiple checks, it depends on the situation. Sometimes, as in real life, a new set of eyes on a problem can see something that even someone highly skilled missed. ("This one goes here, that one goes there"). Whether that's a boost or a separate check depends on the situation and what you want to allow.

For getting through a door, I wouldn't allow multiple skulduggery checks, just one assisted or boosted. But if jemmying the lock doesn't work, maybe they can cut power to the lock (Mechanics) or spoof the card reader (Computers). Depends on the door in question and more importantly, whether you wish to allow them multiple tries. (As a rule of thumb, if something is going to benefit the game, I will let them try anything feasible, setting appropriate difficulties. If it's going to derail things completely, I may simply not allow it (and justify why) or allow a really tough roll. If they make it, then they achieved so,etching epic, and deserve a bit of improv from me! :)

As for the multiple boosts on assisted checks, if they can logically narrate WHY they are assisting the task, then sure. How many you allow is up to you, but 1-2 seems fair. A surgeon has several people helping him operate for example, but will two Wookiees threatening you be significantly more scary than one? Maybe, depends on the circumstances. Someone holding a blaster on a target will add a boost to coercion checks. If a second person then steps up and holds a vitro lace to his throat, would that be worth an additional boost? I'd say so.

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1) for item-ripping with the Force, a few steps:

 

a) The Force user must have the control upgrade to pull objects from moorings.

b) Then they have to roll enough pips to apply enough Strength upgrades to affect the Silhouette.

c) Then as the GM you set a difficulty pool based on the toughness of the material:  I have no real guidance here, except that maybe aluminium foil is "Easy" and durasteel beams are "Daunting+".  Upgrade as needed...

d) The Force user makes a Discipline check against the difficulty you've assigned.  On success they damage the item one step as per the Sunder rules.  2A can be spent to damage a further step.

e) If the process takes more than one turn, the Force user can Commit one die-per-Silhouette (max 3 dice required) to sustain the Force...they still need to make a new Discipline check against the original pool, but don't need to re-roll their Force dice (though they can if they want a better result).

Edited by whafrog

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10) I'd allow it.  There's still a risk, and Despairs don't cancel.

 

11) Mostly I'd go with the best roll, as the others have said, but sometimes you do want a separate result.  In that case, the PC still only rolls once, but each opponent rolls separately and their results are compared separately to the PC's result.

 

13) I'd only call for "passive" checks if there is something to be gained from it, and I'd probably have a list of the things that could be gained and what Advantages and Triumphs will reveal.  If you don't have that list (or at least some idea in your head), then don't ask for a roll, just tell them what they see.

 

20) This can be a contentious question :)  Personally I treat it like the internet today, but subject to outages, cold spots, and in the Outer Rim, lack of infrastructure.  Mostly it's open, though under Imperial rule it might be more like the internet in China...more oversight, but hackable.  Others take a far more restrictive view, so just tailor what you need for the purposes of your campaign.

 

21) I usually only allow one roll unless the players are doing clearly different tasks or searching clearly different areas.  Otherwise, allowing everybody to roll guarantees success.

 

22) I usually only allow Assists if the assister is trained, and more than one only if a good case can be made.

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6. What do you do versus Hit and Run tactics employed by the PCs, using line of sight and solid cover to move-attack-move back? I have a player who uses this tactic a lot, and clears whole rooms without getting hit back (other PCs end up "tanking" for him). What should I make my NPCs do versus that, tactically, so that their own tactics rival with that? This hit-and-run tactic seems to be ways better than using cover, depending on the terrain feature (forest or duracrete walls). I know it is Strain intensive, but usually fights are over at that point.

There is no “hit and run” in this sense. Everything in a round happens at more or less the same time, it’s just a matter of whose actions get resolved first. So, if you’re shooting someone else in a round, then others can shoot back at you during that same round.

If people want to take advantage of cover during a round, they can do that but then they’re probably going to suffer setback dice from doing so, and people who are trying to shoot them behind their cover will also suffer setback dice.

For most PCs, you’re generally better off getting armor or something that gives you a couple of ranks of Ranged Defense, and then you’re doing as well or better than you would if you had any cover, and you can be free to take whatever actions you want — because cover and Defense doesn’t stack.

7. A pretty common question: managing players with high dice pools + Jury Rigged + Autofire. I don't want to house rule anything, because the player did everything by the book, but he easily deals between 50 and 135 damage per round, and with the ability to get Breach 1 once per session (Hired Gun -> Heavy), he can clear entire rooms, and not just minions. How can I keep challenging the party without upping the WT/Soak of enemies (which would direly affect the less optimized PCs and increase the gap).

This is who he is, and what he does. So, sometimes the thing to do is to give him a whole crapton load of minions to wipe out, and let Nemesis and Rival characters use their massive loads of Minion-shield squads to stay alive long enough to last a few rounds.

Sometimes, he needs to go into situations where he simply can’t bring Big Bertha along with him. Maybe he’s at a High Society party where no Heavy Weapons are allowed, and so now he needs to use all those Social skills that he’s ignored until now. Or maybe he’s just in a location where the local security forces prohibit Heavy Weapons.

8. Do you house rule the Pressure Points talent (Doctor)? I'm thinking in advance here. I'd like to hear what people think.

I run a Wookiee Marauder/Heavy/Doctor/FS Exile, and Pressure Point is a talent that I picked up recently. My Wookiee fights in Two Weapon Combat style with heavily modified Vibro-Axes that my GM has allowed me to apply a house-rule Telescopic Shaft modification to, which allows them to be used one-handed. He’s already a hellacious melee monster and damage sponge, although we do have a Klatooinian Heavy in the group who has his own Big Bertha (see above), so my Wookiee is not the most dangerous combat monster in the party.

As I read it, there is nothing in Pressure Point that specifically prohibits your ability to use it in Two Weapon Combat style, but I am no longer of the opinion that should be allowed. Sure, you might end up using both hands to apply this talent, but if you’re using both hands to apply the Pressure Point talent then it is because you need to use one hand to position the target and the other hand to apply the technique, or if you are going to apply the technique appropriately then you have to use both hands at the same time to apply the technique just once.

I haven’t thought about the application of any other talents in partnership with Pressure Point, but I wouldn’t be inclined to allow them. This is already a very powerful technique, and if you’re going to use it at all then I think I would be inclined to require that it is used exclusively on its own and not in conjunction with anything else.

9. How do you manage PCs (ab)using skill checks for strain recovery? I've noticed players using their high skill checks, either in combat or out of combat, to regain Strain by intentionally attempting tasks they can easily succeed. The most obvious instances are easy to spot, but with skills like Perception, it's less blatant.

IMO, the players should not be deciding when they make skill checks. They should tell you what they want to do when they want to do something, and then you should tell them what is required — maybe no skill check at all is required, or maybe it’s an action, or a maneuver, or whatever. But you should be the one to determine when they need to make a skill check.

For strain recovery, if I saw players abusing this, then I would rule that they can no longer recover any kind of strain from any kind of skill check, period. The only way I would allow them to recover any kind of strain would be if they have a specialized talent that helps in this way, or by doing a simple Cool check at the end of the encounter.

Once the players lived through that for a while, I might let them go back to recovering strain by spending Advantage from a skill check, but at a two-to-one ratio and never let the cost go back down to normal. And I’d tell them that we would go back to a permanent reinstatement of the previous condition if I ever caught them abusing skill checks ever again.

But maybe that’s just me.

11. Do you roll only one dice pool when a PC attempts a task versus opponents of diverse skill levels? Whats the consistent way to adjudicate opposed checks versus groups?

It’s best versus best, unless there are obvious reasons why there should be something else.

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I don't remotely see a problem with outright banning Jury-Rigged Autofire. 

 

But before you do that I would talk to the player, explain how it's hard to provide a combat situation that is challenging both for him and not totally lethal for all the other players, and while this character is a combat monster, every player should be able to have fun in combat without the combat immediately ending due to the Nemesis eating 135 damage.

 

If he still doesn't care, welp, you are well within rights as a GM to ban it, justifying that by saying that the combination is simply overpowered and disruptive to the kind of stories you're trying to tell. Baseline Auto-fire is still really, really good. 

 

Or put him up against someone else with that capability and see how it goes. Fair is fair.

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18. I have an observation about this, that i suspect may requirer a question to the developers.

 

Regarding Vehicle Weapons:

On EotE p228, AoR p240, in the Starships and vehicles chapter under the heading Starship and Vehicle Weapons it states:

    "Critical Hit Rating. This number is the amount of Advantage required to trigger Critical HITS with the weapon."

Further on in the Starship and Vehicle chapter, on EotE p235, AoR p250, under the Heading Perform a Combat Check With a Vehicle Weapon sub heading Resolve Advantage and Triumph is the following:

 

    "(if the target is an individual, it inflicts a Critical Injury)"

 

Regarding Personal Scale Weapons:

In EotE p158, AoR p171, in the Gear and Equipment chapter under the heading Weapon Characteristics it states:

    "Critical Rating (Crit). Indicates the number of Advantage required to trigger Critical INJURIES using this weapon."

Under the Heading Perform a Combat Check sub Heading Resolve Advantage and Triumph EotE p205, AoR p217, there is no qualifier as to what to do when a critical hit is scored against a vehicle target. 

 

So therefore i would say that, RAW, a Personal Scale Weapon rolls only on the Critical Injuries table, while a Vehicle Weapon rolls on the Critical Hits table for Vehicle targets and Critical Injuries table for Individuals.

 

Probably RAI would be that if an individual hit from a personal scale weapon got through all the armour of a vehicle and caused at least 10 pts of Wounds (1 Hull Trauma) (remember soak/armour is subtracted from each individual hit, not from the total of all the hits from an entire attack [im talking to you auto fire]) then the attack would cause a Critical Hit. But this is the part that would need Dev Clarification.

 

Im not usually a rules lawyer buy the way :P 

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7.

 

On the Auto-Fire thing:

 

First of all make sure the base difficulty of the attack is being upgraded 

 

Second each advantage (with Jury Rigged) triggers another Hit.

 

Each Hit has the Soak (or armour x 10 if a vehicle is the target) subtracted then wounds from that hit applied:

  e.g.  A PC hits a Rival (Imp Stormtrooper Sargent) with the Heavy Repeating Blaster, with a result of 1 Success, 1 Triumph and 2 Advantage.

             Lets assume the PC wants to inflict maximum damage (3 additional hits) the math(s) is as follows:

 

            Base damage 15 + 1 Success - 3 (Soak 5 - Pierce 2) = 13 (almost but not quite unconscious)

            Second hit 15 + 1 - 3 = another 13 (Unconscious with an auto Crit)

 

The player did not declare he was attempting to hit multiple hits, so his turn ends here, with 26 damage caused

 

If they did declare multiple targets then they move on to the nearby minion group of 5 Stormtroopers:

 

           Third hit 15 + 1 - 3(soak 5 - Pierce 2) = 13, thats 2 minions down and a third loosing 1 (remember to count wounds up, each minion has a WT of 5, therefore needs to take 6 to wounds to be unconscious)

           Forth hit 15 + 1 - 3 = 13, another 2 down, with the last having taken 2 wounds.

           

           Total damage delt = 56 Wounds, 1 Rival and 4 minions down... Send for reinforcements? 

 

If the character was shooting a Minion group of 3 Vehicles (74-Z speeder bikes):

           First Hit 15 + 1 = 16 = 1 HT (1st minion still needs to take another 2 togo down)

           Second Hit = 1 HT (1 HT to go on first)

           Third Hit = 1 HT (1st minion goes down, 2 to go in group)

           Fourth hit = 1 HT (2nd Minion takes 1 HT, so of the 3 1 went down, 1 needs another 2 HT to go down, and the final still needs 3 HT to go down)

           Total = 4 HT inflicted (40 Wounds equivalent)

 

What if he Aimed for Storm IV Cloud car:

          First Hit 15 + 1 - 10 (1 Armour) = 6 Wounds = 0 HT

         Second Hit = 0 HT

         Third Hit = 0 HT

         Fourth Hit = 0 HT

         Total = 0 HT  :P

 

To damage any vehicle with armour they need to score at least 5 success (taking away from those precious advantage)

 

If the Auto-fire weapon also has breach, that becomes a problem for big vehicles, but i have not seen this yet. I used the most powerful auto fire weapon in the CRB's

 

Let me know if i missed something or you want more examples

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Just to put some context:

 

One of the players is a droid equipped with many many sensors and scanners.

The location of more of the combat situations was in a space station, specifically a comm relay.

Once they scanned the station, I gave them a rough estimate of the number of lifeforms. I, of course, didn't mention the droids. I couldn't easily "reinforce" too much, since I had already given them the numbers (which were quite high, as a matter of fact).

 

The team's gunner is a high XP Bounty Hunter/Gadgeteer/Heavy/Gunner(from Ace) with ranks in Burly, Jury Rigged, Deadly Accuracy, a tricked-out Light Repeater Blaster (which uses Ranged [Heavy]), True Aim, etc. etc. and a Talent (from Heavy) that lets him, on a Triumph, have Breach 1 for one round in one encounter per session. Which is fine by me in principle.

 

When you mix the Hit-and-Run with the usage of Breach 1 + Autofire/Jury Rigged + etc. you end up with a room of dead bodies and an un-hittable player running around with his Jetpack (and yes, he succeeds on all his Piloting checks, I tried).

 

It's just that no combo I know of, except perhaps throwing multiple Silhouette 5-6 objects with Force Move, rivals the sheer damage output of this character. I'm telling you, next to that, Lightsabers were the least of our worries. :P

 

He's a total glass cannon though, so he falls to the floor extremely quickly if he's hit. But it's also a problem, because if he falls, there is a good risk of the rest of the group falling as well. It's difficult to calibrate.

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Just to put some context:

 

One of the players is a droid equipped with many many sensors and scanners.

The location of more of the combat situations was in a space station, specifically a comm relay.

Once they scanned the station, I gave them a rough estimate of the number of lifeforms. I, of course, didn't mention the droids. I couldn't easily "reinforce" too much, since I had already given them the numbers (which were quite high, as a matter of fact).

 

The team's gunner is a high XP Bounty Hunter/Gadgeteer/Heavy/Gunner(from Ace) with ranks in Burly, Jury Rigged, Deadly Accuracy, a tricked-out Light Repeater Blaster (which uses Ranged [Heavy]), True Aim, etc. etc. and a Talent (from Heavy) that lets him, on a Triumph, have Breach 1 for one round in one encounter per session. Which is fine by me in principle.

 

When you mix the Hit-and-Run with the usage of Breach 1 + Autofire/Jury Rigged + etc. you end up with a room of dead bodies and an un-hittable player running around with his Jetpack (and yes, he succeeds on all his Piloting checks, I tried).

 

It's just that no combo I know of, except perhaps throwing multiple Silhouette 5-6 objects with Force Move, rivals the sheer damage output of this character. I'm telling you, next to that, Lightsabers were the least of our worries. :P

 

He's a total glass cannon though, so he falls to the floor extremely quickly if he's hit. But it's also a problem, because if he falls, there is a good risk of the rest of the group falling as well. It's difficult to calibrate.

 

Remember when they fall they are not dead, just unconscious... therefore tied up in a cell on a slaver ship to Kessel with no equipment, give them a couple of adventures to take back their stuff, then either escape or try to take over the ship (only to be recaptured)

 

you could put in some gun turrets into the odd encounter, give them 2 or 3 armour but only personal scale weapons, hard to damage, threatening, but not lethal. the group would probably have to find another way.

 

another option is big minion groups, 10-15! it will force them to do other things.

 

throw grenades at them

 

use cortosis on your nemesis, along with the squad rules. when a BBEG looks like being taken out, flip a destiny point and have them "Disappear" (example taken form the AoR Beginner)

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I don't remotely see a problem with outright banning Jury-Rigged Autofire.

And the other thing that just jumped up and bit me — Jury-Rigged Autofire only applies for the first activation of auto-fire. So, it’s just one [Advantage] to go from one hit to the second one, but from then on you have to spend two [Advantage].

It’s kind of like a hair trigger — only that first one is “free”, or in this case, reduced cost.

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When you mix the Hit-and-Run with the usage of Breach 1 + Autofire/Jury Rigged + etc. you end up with a room of dead bodies and an un-hittable player running around with his Jetpack (and yes, he succeeds on all his Piloting checks, I tried).

 

It's just that no combo I know of, except perhaps throwing multiple Silhouette 5-6 objects with Force Move, rivals the sheer damage output of this character. I'm telling you, next to that, Lightsabers were the least of our worries. :P

Unless “Hit-and-Run” is a talent I don’t know of, then the tactic you’ve described so far doesn’t exist — while he is in a position to be able to fire at others, then they can fire at him. There’s no popping out of cover to fire, then popping back into cover and making sure that you don’t take any damage.

Breach doesn’t help you if the targets have Cortosis.

Jury Rigged only helps with the first activation of Autofire, not all activations.

High levels of auto-fire aren’t as dangerous for Rivals and Nemesis characters if they’re using squad rules and have large amounts of “Minion-Armor” to throw at the problem.

And reinforcements can come from all sorts of places that might be shielded to any sensors the PCs might have.

You don’t necessarily have to correct all these problems to bring things back into balance, but I believe that you have a number of options available to you here that you can use. And a number of problems that I think you do need to fix, based on previous mis-understandings of the rules.

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Unless “Hit-and-Run” is a talent I don’t know of, then the tactic you’ve described so far doesn’t exist — while he is in a position to be able to fire at others, then they can fire at him. There’s no popping out of cover to fire, then popping back into cover and making sure that you don’t take any damage.

 

I think it'd be a practice of "Maneuver: leave cover to get a target; Action: shoot; spend 2 Strain for 2nd Maneuver to move back out of LOS."

 

Jury Rigged only helps with the first activation of Autofire, not all activations.

Cite?

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When you mix the Hit-and-Run with the usage of Breach 1 + Autofire/Jury Rigged + etc. you end up with a room of dead bodies and an un-hittable player running around with his Jetpack (and yes, he succeeds on all his Piloting checks, I tried).

 

It's just that no combo I know of, except perhaps throwing multiple Silhouette 5-6 objects with Force Move, rivals the sheer damage output of this character. I'm telling you, next to that, Lightsabers were the least of our worries. :P

Unless “Hit-and-Run” is a talent I don’t know of, then the tactic you’ve described so far doesn’t exist — while he is in a position to be able to fire at others, then they can fire at him. There’s no popping out of cover to fire, then popping back into cover and making sure that you don’t take any damage.

Breach doesn’t help you if the targets have Cortosis.

Jury Rigged only helps with the first activation of Autofire, not all activations.

High levels of auto-fire aren’t as dangerous for Rivals and Nemesis characters if they’re using squad rules and have large amounts of “Minion-Armor” to throw at the problem.

And reinforcements can come from all sorts of places that might be shielded to any sensors the PCs might have.

You don’t necessarily have to correct all these problems to bring things back into balance, but I believe that you have a number of options available to you here that you can use. And a number of problems that I think you do need to fix, based on previous mis-understandings of the rules.

 

 

 

i think what we are trying to help you with is that your not bound by the same rules as the PC's are, you can mix and match talents, skills etc, as well as manipulate the world around them in ways that they can only imagine (intact thats the best, when they are imagining all the **** thats about to come down on them)

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Unless “Hit-and-Run” is a talent I don’t know of, then the tactic you’ve described so far doesn’t exist — while he is in a position to be able to fire at others, then they can fire at him. There’s no popping out of cover to fire, then popping back into cover and making sure that you don’t take any damage.

 

I think it'd be a practice of "Maneuver: leave cover to get a target; Action: shoot; spend 2 Strain for 2nd Maneuver to move back out of LOS."

 

 

 

 

Then, whoops a minion group of 8 storm troopers just appeared behind you (you gimp) and look, its their turn right now.... Goodbye. 

(not a personal attack, just hate players who think this is ok... and i punish them for it)

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I don't remotely see a problem with outright banning Jury-Rigged Autofire.

And the other thing that just jumped up and bit me — Jury-Rigged Autofire only applies for the first activation of auto-fire. So, it’s just one [Advantage] to go from one hit to the second one, but from then on you have to spend two [Advantage].

It’s kind of like a hair trigger — only that first one is “free”, or in this case, reduced cost.

 

 

i can see where your trying to go with this, that jury rigged reduces the advantage cost only by 1 for each use of the weapon. unfortunately its actually reducing the cost to activate that feature of the weapon, which that feature can be activated multiple times each use of the weapon, therefore reducing the cost each time its activated.

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I think it'd be a practice of "Maneuver: leave cover to get a target; Action: shoot; spend 2 Strain for 2nd Maneuver to move back out of LOS.”

 

Right, which is the procedure the OP had described, and to which I was referring.

Jury Rigged only helps with the first activation of Autofire, not all activations.

Cite?

The topic at http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/108101-ffg-developer-answered-questions/ covers Jury Rigged at least a couple of different times.

First off, Jury Rigged can only be applied to one item once. If you have a second rank of Jury Rigged, it cannot be applied to that same item.

Secondly, you pay separately for each activation of Auto-Fire, and Jury Rigged would only apply to that first activation. Since you can’t apply Jury Rigged to the same item more than once, that one reduced-cost activation is all you get.

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i can see where your trying to go with this, that jury rigged reduces the advantage cost only by 1 for each use of the weapon. unfortunately its actually reducing the cost to activate that feature of the weapon, which that feature can be activated multiple times each use of the weapon, therefore reducing the cost each time its activated.

Read the material in the topic at http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/108101-ffg-developer-answered-questions/

They cover Jury Rigged at least a couple of times.

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i can see where your trying to go with this, that jury rigged reduces the advantage cost only by 1 for each use of the weapon. unfortunately its actually reducing the cost to activate that feature of the weapon, which that feature can be activated multiple times each use of the weapon, therefore reducing the cost each time its activated.

Read the material in the topic at http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/108101-ffg-developer-answered-questions/

They cover Jury Rigged at least a couple of times.

 

 

But non of those times does it say anything about jury rigged only working on the first activation, only that it can only be applied once to any item.

 

As an example, if you Jury Rigged the damage of an auto fire weapon, that extra damage would apply to every hit scored with that weapon, so multiple times a round if your activating the auto fire quality (at a cost of 2 advantage as you can't Jury Rigg both).

 

The quality of the weapon has been changed by 1, and there is only 1 auto fire quality on the weapon, your allowed to activate that same quality multiple times each round.

 

I wish you where correct, believe me, but if someone has this weapon they are probably a minmax player, and will want this run as per RAW for them to have an enjoyable time.

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