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RebelDave

Modifying Attachments

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I have had a quick look through the forums, and didnt find a definitive answer.

 

On page 187 of the Core Book, it states under Installing Mods, that if you Roll a Despair while applying a Modification to an Attachment, you basically destroy the attachment.

 

But the dice pool starts at 3Purple, and goes up from there for each successive mod...

 

So when would you EVER roll the Red dice, and so EVER get a chance to get a Despair?

 

Noone is going to be applying Mods in a fight!

 

 

I am confused.

Help!

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Five purples (Formidable) is the max number of Difficulty dice. If you need to increase the difficulty from there, the purples start turning into reds.

 

So the first mod would be 3 purples. The second mod would be 4 purples. The third mod would be 5 purples. And the fourth mod would be 4 purples and 1 red. So yes, a Despair is possible if you're going to push that attachment to its limits. :)

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Since increasing difficulty of a task is no the same as upgrading, the difficulty will always be capped at 5 Difficulty for a Formidable task. RAW, any more difficulty dice becomes an impossible task (not an upgrade).  The only way a Challenge die will be used is if the GM upgrades the task for a specific reason.

 

We went back and forth on this one back in December.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/130020-attachmentmodification-questions/?hl=%2Battachments+%2Bdespair

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Five purples (Formidable) is the max number of Difficulty dice. If you need to increase the difficulty from there, the purples start turning into reds.

 

So the first mod would be 3 purples. The second mod would be 4 purples. The third mod would be 5 purples. And the fourth mod would be 4 purples and 1 red. So yes, a Despair is possible if you're going to push that attachment to its limits. :)

 

Difficulty dice are not automatically upgraded to challenge dice for exceeding the Formidable task.  Some people do that as a house rule, but according to the sidebar on p. 18 (ECRB) it is an Impossible task.

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Five purples (Formidable) is the max number of Difficulty dice. If you need to increase the difficulty from there, the purples start turning into reds.

 

So the first mod would be 3 purples. The second mod would be 4 purples. The third mod would be 5 purples. And the fourth mod would be 4 purples and 1 red. So yes, a Despair is possible if you're going to push that attachment to its limits. :)

 

Difficulty dice are not automatically upgraded to challenge dice for exceeding the Formidable task.  Some people do that as a house rule, but according to the sidebar on p. 18 (ECRB) it is an Impossible task.

 

 

I just re-read that sidebar, and I have a hard time believing modding a weapon would fall into the category of Impossible tasks:

 

"However, the GM may decide to allow a PC to attempt a check where success is extremely improbable - throwing a grenade in hopes it will put out a fire, scaling a perfectly smooth, slick wall, or using reason to calm down a rampaging rancor, for example. Allowing the PCs to make an impossible task should be relegated to critical moments in a story's arc or truly life-or-death situations only."

 

I don't think adding a 4th mod to a weapon falls into the category of "critical moments in a story's arc or truly life-or-death situations." :P

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I just re-read that sidebar, and I have a hard time believing modding a weapon would fall into the category of Impossible tasks:

 

"However, the GM may decide to allow a PC to attempt a check where success is extremely improbable - throwing a grenade in hopes it will put out a fire, scaling a perfectly smooth, slick wall, or using reason to calm down a rampaging rancor, for example. Allowing the PCs to make an impossible task should be relegated to critical moments in a story's arc or truly life-or-death situations only."

 

I don't think adding a 4th mod to a weapon falls into the category of "critical moments in a story's arc or truly life-or-death situations." :P

 

 

You're probably right about "critical moments", but putting the 4th mod on a BAM is not an easy thing to do.  A GM is within his rights to say you can't put the 4th mod on an attachment.  Instead, many GM's go to 6 or 7 Difficulty dice or upgrade to Challenge dice as you suggest, but the RAW thing is the Impossible task. 

 

I also suggest doing mods at the beginning of the session rather than the end.  This makes deciding to use Destiny points for upgrading a PCs skill or the Natural Tinkerer talent more critical, instead of a throw away.

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OK....

 

So let me see if i understand this.

 

Some Attachments have multiple Modifications.

 

By what I am reading above, and what they reference in the CRB, the first Mod is 3P, the second 4 and the third 5P.

 

After that, that task is 'impossible' So it makes sense that you can only apply 3 modifications to any single attachment.

 

But that doesnt track.... as the Under Barrel Grenade Launcher has FIVE of the SAME attachment (To increase ammo).

So it MUST be that you can apply at LEAST 5 Modifications to any given attachments.

 

So is attachment number 4, 6 Purple? (Which is Impossible RAW), or 4P and 1R? (Not RAW).

 

If you never upgrade a Purple to Red (Unless you use a DP, and my players would DEMAND to know WHY... they are doing this in their nice safe workshop after all), How can you EVER roll a Despair (RAW)??

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Five purples (Formidable) is the max number of Difficulty dice. If you need to increase the difficulty from there, the purples start turning into reds.

 

So the first mod would be 3 purples. The second mod would be 4 purples. The third mod would be 5 purples. And the fourth mod would be 4 purples and 1 red. So yes, a Despair is possible if you're going to push that attachment to its limits. :)

 

Difficulty dice are not automatically upgraded to challenge dice for exceeding the Formidable task.  Some people do that as a house rule, but according to the sidebar on p. 18 (ECRB) it is an Impossible task.

 

This very question came up on one of the Order 66 podcasts when Sam Stewart was visiting, and he explicitly stated that this was the way it was intended to work - upgrading Difficulty dice to Challenge dice once you moved beyond 5. I'd add that the difficulty is still Impossible, so the player would have to flip a Destiny point just to be allowed to roll.

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Actually, RAW an Impossible task has the same number of Difficulty dice as a Formidable task (5P) and costs a Destiny point to attempt. Unless you have a house rule that uprgades past 5P or spend a DP to upgrade the difficulty, you will never have a Despair.

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This very question came up on one of the Order 66 podcasts when Sam Stewart was visiting, and he explicitly stated that this was the way it was intended to work - upgrading Difficulty dice to Challenge dice once you moved beyond 5. I'd add that the difficulty is still Impossible, so the player would have to flip a Destiny point just to be allowed to roll.

 

Ok, there you go: RAI vs. RAW.  I haven't been listening to the Order 66 podcasts, so I hadn't heard that one.  They really should update the faq/errata occaisonally with some of these dev answered questions, so we don't have to go fishing for it.

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Five purples (Formidable) is the max number of Difficulty dice. If you need to increase the difficulty from there, the purples start turning into reds.

 

So the first mod would be 3 purples. The second mod would be 4 purples. The third mod would be 5 purples. And the fourth mod would be 4 purples and 1 red. So yes, a Despair is possible if you're going to push that attachment to its limits. :)

 

Difficulty dice are not automatically upgraded to challenge dice for exceeding the Formidable task.  Some people do that as a house rule, but according to the sidebar on p. 18 (ECRB) it is an Impossible task.

 

This very question came up on one of the Order 66 podcasts when Sam Stewart was visiting, and he explicitly stated that this was the way it was intended to work - upgrading Difficulty dice to Challenge dice once you moved beyond 5. I'd add that the difficulty is still Impossible, so the player would have to flip a Destiny point just to be allowed to roll.

 

 

Do you happen to know which episode it was? I'd love to listen to it, I think I must have missed that one somehow.

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Whos Sam Stewart?

 

And so far we have:

1: 5P -> 4P1R

2: 5P -> 5P + Destiny Point

3: 5P -> 4P1R + Destiny Point

 

With Option 2, there will NEVER be a chance of destroying a Modification, as you will NEVER have a chance of rolling a Despair, so many attachments will never risk being ruined... and that lack of risk... bothers me. It adds no 'stress' to taking the risk.

 

My group seem intend on accumulating EVERYTHING, and one of my players has said if I work towards keeping them 'poor' they will just work towards accumulating more wealth even harder... so they would fluff a Mod, and just buy again and try again.

 

What do I do? :/

 

 

Additionally, where do you stand on 'removing' an Attachment, and placing it on something else?

Edited by RebelDave

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Sam Stewart works for FFG and is one of the game's designers/writers/producers. So basically if he answered a rules question a specific way, it can be considered law.

 

And don't say "NEVER" a chance - a GM could surely spend a Destiny point to upgrade one of those purples to a red. (Although it'd be a pretty mean thing to do, lol.)

 

As far as removing attachments, I feel that if it was not modded yet, it can be removed and installed on something else. If it was modded, it's been customized enough that it won't fit on something else. A new attachment is needed in that case. I don't think the rules specifically cover this, but I feel there have been a few threads around here where this is the general consensus.

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OK.

 

Cool.

 

Cheers guys, this has helped... I think..... gods I hope so.

 

Ma Head Hurts!

 

 

Still seems rather overpowered, especially with some of the Technician Talents that reduce the difficulty of rolls.... but hey ho.

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The way you describe your players, it sems like you have a bigger problem than setting the difficulty. 

 

Totally not RAW, but I say that some attachments can be removed (optics, bipods, etc.), but all the modifications are lost.  In my mind, mods represent the fine tuning done to the attachment while on the weapon.  Putting an attachment on a new weapon goes back to the base modifiers.  I would allow swapping some attachments depending on what they are being put on (barrel attachment from one blaster carbine to another, but not to a heavy blaster rifle or slugthrower).  Some attachments cannot be removed (filed front sights, serrated edges, monofilament edges, superior customization, etc.) since they are integral to the weapon, IMHO.

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So when would you EVER roll the Red dice, and so EVER get a chance to get a Despair?

 

The main question has been answered, but you'll find a lot of these kinds of set difficulties that have no upgrades, but the description talks about Despair.  The adventures modules have several of these, where you, say, "make a Hard Survival roll (PPP), and on a Despair..."  The reason it's explained that way is as the GM you can always flip a DP and upgrade any task, so the rule descriptions have to account for that possibility.

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Rebel Dave "My group seem intend on accumulating EVERYTHING, and one of my players has said if I work towards keeping them 'poor' they will just work towards accumulating more wealth even harder... so they would fluff a Mod, and just buy again and try again."

 I am away from the book but if i remember right when you fail the check to modify that modification can not be attempted again on the same attachment.

 

So even if the attachment has 5 of the same modification you may not be able to modify it all five times if you fail some of the checks along the way.

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As a Houserule: If you're worried about things getting out of hand, you can rule that no more than 2 Mods can be successfullly applied to any Attachment. For things that list more than 2 Mods, you have to be selective about which ones you want. Note that failed Mods don't count, so the Hangar's increased capacity can be failed up to three times and you might still be able to add the two successful ones.

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Also note that some criticals might increase a checks difficulty (if I recall I'm not near my book). Or if the player is trying to add a mod and generates 3 threat the GM can use that threat to upgrade the difficulty of their next check, maybe they crossed wires wrong making the mod unstable to further tampering or something of the sort.

As for increased difficulty past 5 I was almost certain I saw a rule in the crb that did say it upgraded after that but I don't have my book on me at the moment so I'll check once I get home.

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Because my player wouldn't make the following roll a Modification roll if he made it harder, he would leave it until he had all the advantage on his side.

 

As for Lightsabres not having HPs.... what do you want? a Cross Hilt? *ducks*

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Because my player wouldn't make the following roll a Modification roll if he made it harder, he would leave it until he had all the advantage on his side.

As for Lightsabres not having HPs.... what do you want? a Cross Hilt? *ducks*

Thats called metagaming and is a big no no at most tables.

Given if it was due to a Crit that'd make sense to rest up till he was healed first perhaps but not do to threat on a former check (depending on how you narrated what was upping the difficulty).

Edited by Dark Bunny Lord

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The rule reads "Each additional mod installed in an attachment beyond the first increases the difficulty of the Mechanics check by one and costs an additional 100 credits beyond the base cost."

 

Nothing in the RAW says cumulative, the first mod would be a Hard 3 purple check and any subsequent check 2+ would be made at 4 purples.  If you fail on the mechanics check that particular modification can never be made to the attachment.

 

And changing a purple to a red via a dark side Destiny Point could incur the Despair.

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