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Ihavebadluck

turr phennir VI vs. PtL?

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my question is, as is obvious by the title, is turr phennir better with VI or PtL? push the limit could let him focus, do half of an arc dodge, shoot, and then finish it up with his ability if there is a situation where dodging the arc would have cost you the arc, but veteran instincts allows him t shoot earlier and while he loses the focus he is more likely to be shooting before the enemy and get out of the arc. which do you guys think is better for him?

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I always use him with veteran instinct, but that is mainly because of my local meta.  A lot of players use PS 7 through 9 pilots here and being able to shoot first makes it easier to arc dodge.  I also don't have to worry about stress, which allows me to do those 1 hard turns and get right behind my opponent on the following turn.  Again, however, it all depends on your local meta :)

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PtL is generally better.

The number of pilots that can out-PS him, even with him only at 7, is generally limited to 1-2 in the opponent's list.  

BR and Boost are also generally inferior to being able to do both for arc-dodging.

 

Therefore, avoid the higher PS pilot and the turrets (use the rest of your list to take them out), and use his ability to deliver unanswerable shots.

 

 

EDIT: Also PtL is quite useful outside of his ability, e.g. focus + evade.  VI requires a little more effort in the planning phase to make it a rewarding choice.

 

EDIT 2: Lastly, VI to get to PS 9 is still a gamble on the meta, since with the advent of Whisper it isn't a "safe haven" any longer.

Edited by Sparklelord

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Push the Limit is generally a more powerful choice. But it's also more expensive, and delaying your second action until the combat round at PS7 makes him more vulnerable to attackers at PS8-12. So determining which is the better choice depends on the rest of your list, your tolerance for risk, and the metagame you're playing in.

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If you use PtL on him, he cant use his pilot ability. Because then he will be stressed, which prevents him from performing actions. So with VI you can get two actions, one in the activation phase, one in the combat phase. With PtL you only get actions in the activation phase. And with VI you can use the whole dial, and not only greens.

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Vi is situational. If all my ships are ps 9 I might give him vi to match.

Ptl is great. But I think you might be using him wrong. I havnt looked at his card in a while but if he's stressesed (from ptl in the action phase) he's not able to use his ability. It's great if you focus with him, attack then boost ptl barrel roll or switch those two. Attack hard with focus then defend yourself by not being in arc. Or by taking an evade token off the ptl barrel roll if you can't avoid the shot.

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you can use PTL with turr, you just PTL off his action in the combat phase

 

If you use PtL on him, he cant use his pilot ability. Because then he will be stressed, which prevents him from performing actions. So with VI you can get two actions, one in the activation phase, one in the combat phase. With PtL you only get actions in the activation phase. And with VI you can use the whole dial, and not only greens.

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If you use PtL on him, he cant use his pilot ability. Because then he will be stressed, which prevents him from performing actions. So with VI you can get two actions, one in the activation phase, one in the combat phase. With PtL you only get actions in the activation phase. And with VI you can use the whole dial, and not only greens.

You can use Push the Limit with Turr Phennir. You take an action during your Perform Action step as usual, then after you attack you (1) barrel roll or boost as a free action and then (2) activate PTL for a second free action.

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you can use PTL with turr, you just PTL off his action in the combat phase

 

If you use PtL on him, he cant use his pilot ability. Because then he will be stressed, which prevents him from performing actions. So with VI you can get two actions, one in the activation phase, one in the combat phase. With PtL you only get actions in the activation phase. And with VI you can use the whole dial, and not only greens.

 

 

 

 

If you use PtL on him, he cant use his pilot ability. Because then he will be stressed, which prevents him from performing actions. So with VI you can get two actions, one in the activation phase, one in the combat phase. With PtL you only get actions in the activation phase. And with VI you can use the whole dial, and not only greens.

You can use Push the Limit with Turr Phennir. You take an action during your Perform Action step as usual, then after you attack you (1) barrel roll or boost as a free action and then (2) activate PTL for a second free action.

 

 

Upps, I did not think of that. I should better think before posting stuff.

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you can use PTL with turr, you just PTL off his action in the combat phase

 

If you use PtL on him, he cant use his pilot ability. Because then he will be stressed, which prevents him from performing actions. So with VI you can get two actions, one in the activation phase, one in the combat phase. With PtL you only get actions in the activation phase. And with VI you can use the whole dial, and not only greens.

 

 

 

 

If you use PtL on him, he cant use his pilot ability. Because then he will be stressed, which prevents him from performing actions. So with VI you can get two actions, one in the activation phase, one in the combat phase. With PtL you only get actions in the activation phase. And with VI you can use the whole dial, and not only greens.

You can use Push the Limit with Turr Phennir. You take an action during your Perform Action step as usual, then after you attack you (1) barrel roll or boost as a free action and then (2) activate PTL for a second free action.

 

 

Upps, I did not think of that. I should better think before posting stuff.

 

tbh i didn't think of it either XD forgot about the stress. so is it just a matter of what my list is and how many points I have to spend on upgrades?

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I prefer VI over Push the Limit, it lets you attack and move before a couple of big guns shoot back: Corran, Keyan, Dash, Echo. Also, not starting each turn stressed really open his dial and makes him harder to block.

 

Once the meta calm down and we see less higher PS pilots, or just if Autothrusters do the work for me and makes me secure enough, I'll go with Predator on Turd, such a nice upgrade for a highly maneuvrable craft like the Interceptors, you can do the action you want, get blocked, k-turn, etc and you still have a modificator for your attacks.

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I'm also of the sentiment that Autothrusters will make VI nearly auto-include on Turr. Being able to shoot first at range 1 against a Fatty and either bounce out to range 2 or out of arc for the bonus will be invaluable. Alternatively, when shooting at low-agility ships, it's incredibly useful to focus, fire at range 3, then barrel roll out of range entirely.

 

Interceptors are gonna get nasty.

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Point for point, Push the Limit is better.  That second (or on Turr, potentially third) action is far too valuable and versatile on any TIE Interceptor to give it up for a moderate PS bid.  If you have guessed wrong with VI, Turr loses hard as he has given up raw mobility and durability.  If you have guessed wrong with PtL and never get to use his ability, you still have a PS7 ship that can turtle behind focus and evade, scramble with boost and barrel roll or perform some combination thereof.  Whenever you have a squint with an EPT, PtL should be your first, and usually only, choice or you are effectively leaving points on the table.

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I'm also of the sentiment that Autothrusters will make VI nearly auto-include on Turr. Being able to shoot first at range 1 against a Fatty and either bounce out to range 2 or out of arc for the bonus will be invaluable. Alternatively, when shooting at low-agility ships, it's incredibly useful to focus, fire at range 3, then barrel roll out of range entirely.

 

Interceptors are gonna get nasty.

 

 

Yeah this is more of a VI + ATs vs. PTL conversation. For the same points you aren't going to beat VI + ATs. 3 actions a turn is really nice but so is not being blown up by a turret when it looks at you. 

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In addition to changing based on what's in your local meta, I think it also varies based on what's in your list.  Where do you want him to shoot in your fleet?  Simultaneous activation/combat with Fel might be appealing to some folks, for instance, or leaving him at 7 so you can have simultaneous Phennir and Cowell.

 

It's another thing to consider, at least.  Your list, not just the other player's.

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In addition to changing based on what's in your local meta, I think it also varies based on what's in your list.  Where do you want him to shoot in your fleet?  Simultaneous activation/combat with Fel might be appealing to some folks, for instance, or leaving him at 7 so you can have simultaneous Phennir and Cowell.

 

It's another thing to consider, at least.  Your list, not just the other player's.

 

This, too, is a valuable point. Between the two, I'd rather have a stressed VI Turr instead of a stressed PtL Fel if I have to shoot at a Rebel Captive ship. Granted, hopefully I could pilot in a way that I wouldn't need to shoot at it immediately, but if it came down to it a stress on Turr with VI is far more manageable than a stress on Soontir who has already used PtL.

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I have built lists around VI turr flying wingman with PTL Soontir since they dropped in wave 2.  going from 7 to 9 used to not be as big of a deal, and thus PTL became prefferred on Turr if I could find 2 more points in my list.  now, with autothrusters on the horizon and PS9 being more of a big deal for soaking rebel captive stress off Soontir, VI+autothrusters will by my 3 pts. of upgrades spent on Turr.  as many have mentioned, this is a bit meta specific as if there isn't as much ps8 or 9 or rebel captive, then you'd be better off with PTL and shaving 2 points off your list elsewhere. 

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I like VI. It adds a great deal of flexibility to your dial choices, and you STILL get 2 actions, of course, one has to be a reposition.

It's really great to fly a capable Interceptor that does NOT rely on Green moves, and heck, can K Turn some times!

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I too tend towards VI.

 

Turr can still get in both a boost and a barrel roll, so he doens't really lose out on the arc-dodging in that respect. PTL will help him do damage, but only VI will protect him from PS 7-9 pilots (depending on initiative).

 

In addition it's slightly cheaper, and it also frees up his dial. When was the last time you saw an interceptor other than Turr choose a non-green manoeuvre while in combat?

I must admit it's a tricky call though - PTL also had a **** strong case! This is one of those rare situations which seem to be perfectly balanced one way or the other...

Edited by Hedgehogmech

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I generally prefer VI myself, but I can see the argument either way.  I like flying him as a flanker though, and I rarely have an issue getting him out of non-turret arcs provided he shoots first.  I do expect that with Autothrusters coming out, the need for PtL will lessen for all interceptors, not just Turr, making VI again a fine choice.  I also generally fly him along side Soontir, so as mentioned having them both be 9 is advantageous.

 

Looking forward to having an Interceptor-heavy list again!

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VI - Useful if you are facing a PS 7 or 8 opponent who does not have a turret.  Against PS 9 no-turret opponents it helps if you have the initiative, which is generally a bad thing because repositioning in general is better if you give up the initiative.  Mostly useless against turrets of any kind, useless against PS 10+ under all circumstances, useless against ps 1-6 under all circumstances (because you already have higher init than them).

 

PtL - Useful vs. PS 1-6 ships without turrets because it lets you focus for a shot, then BR and Boost to avoid arcs or evade if you can't.  Useful against PS 7+ ships because you can turtle up before they shoot.  Useful against PS 1-6 turrets because you can turtle up after shooting and repositioning, useful against PS 7+ turrets because you can turtle before their shot.  Useful against any PS 1-6 ships on those occasions when you are denied an action, because you can get a focus or evade after you shoot rather than remain actionless against their shots.

 

in summary, VI is useful against non turreted PS 7-8 ships if a single barrel roll or boost allows you to get out of their arc, and useless everywhere else.  PtL is very useful under all circumstances.  The dial is not really restricted, because you are free not to use PtL when it isn't necessary (which is all of those times VI would have been useful), and only use PtL when it is needed (which are those times VI does nothing).

 

I know it costs 2 points more, but there really is no comparison between the two.

Edited by KineticOperator

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