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6 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yoda is used as a benchmark for comparing who is the most powerful of the Jedi, not who is a typical one. Anakin's power level is compared to Yoda specifically because of his exceptional power and ability in the Force. And Yoda is the only other Jedi to which Anakin can be compared. Mace Windu as well, is one of the most powerful Jedi in the order, second only to Yoda on the Jedi Council. None of them are "typical" Jedi. 

And that's my point "typical" is one of multiple definitions of "standard" benchmark/unit of measure are others.  We can't agree on which definition of "standard" to use let alone what abilities a "standard" jedi should have, we already tried and couldn't agree.  You seem to want to say that the only capabilities most jedi had are the ones they demonstrated in their order(15 seconds) of screen time in the arena at the battle of genosis.  I think it's ludicrous to assume they weren't capable of more and ludicrous for anyone to claim that they can accurately say what typical jedi were and weren't capable of, and that's why it's ludicrous to define "movie quality jedi" in terms of a completely unknown "typical/standard"  instead of "archetypal" (screen time averaged capabilities).  But if *you* want to use "typical/standard" as a synonym for "archetypal movie quality" for the purpose of resolving the debate about whether niman-disciple/sentry is the most efficient movie quality jedi build I'll agree to it, because we don't actually need to AGREE on what capabilities a "movie quality" jedi have to objectively determine efficiency.  Efficiency means doing more with less, so if you can build a more broadly capable jedi for 700 earned xp you win, OTHERWISE YOU LOSE.  If you would like a slightly different amount of xp, that negotiable.  But it won't be much different than 700 earned xp because the debate inherently presumes a comparison to a niman-disciple/sentry build.

Not that I think it's possible but if you could provide definitive on movie screen evidence of what typical jedi were and weren't capable of, then maybe we could use that as a build criteria.  But like I said I don't think anywhere close to adequate on movie screen evidence to make that determination.

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4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

And that's my point "typical" is one of multiple definitions of "standard" benchmark/unit of measure are others.  We can't agree on which definition of "standard" to use let alone what abilities a "standard" jedi should have, we already tried and couldn't agree.  You seem to want to say that the only capabilities most jedi had are the ones they demonstrated in their order(15 seconds) of screen time in the arena at the battle of genosis.  I think it's ludicrous to assume they weren't capable of more and ludicrous for anyone to claim that they can accurately say what typical jedi were and weren't capable of, and that's why it's ludicrous to define "movie quality jedi" in terms of a completely unknown "typical/standard"  instead of "archetypal" (screen time averaged capabilities).  But if *you* want to use "typical/standard" as a synonym for "archetypal movie quality" for the purpose of resolving the debate about whether niman-disciple/sentry is the most efficient movie quality jedi build I'll agree to it, because we don't actually need to AGREE on what capabilities a "movie quality" jedi have to objectively determine efficiency.  Efficiency means doing more with less, so if you can build a more broadly capable jedi for 700 earned xp you win, OTHERWISE YOU LOSE.  If you would like a slightly different amount of xp, that negotiable.  But it won't be much different than 700 earned xp because the debate inherently presumes a comparison to a niman-disciple/sentry build.

Not that I think it's possible but if you could provide definitive on movie screen evidence of what typical jedi were and weren't capable of, then maybe we could use that as a build criteria.  But like I said I don't think anywhere close to adequate on movie screen evidence to make that determination.

I dknt wven think we have tv screen evidence of what a typical jedi is like. We have evidence they seem to be somewhat variable. The crucible episodes show that even the younglings have a fair amount of variability in their capabilities. 

I think there is a bell curve of what abilities they have. Reflect and move seem fairly common. Same with enhance and influence. Beyond that it is hard to tell.

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8 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I dknt wven think we have tv screen evidence of what a typical jedi is like. We have evidence they seem to be somewhat variable. The crucible episodes show that even the younglings have a fair amount of variability in their capabilities. 

I think there is a bell curve of what abilities they have. Reflect and move seem fairly common. Same with enhance and influence. Beyond that it is hard to tell.

 

Like I said, I think it's ludicrous to claim that we can accurately say what a typical movie jedi is capable of, but I've never accused Tramp of having common sense.

 

And even if we included the clone wars series, what do we know about their skillfulness?

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Just now, EliasWindrider said:

 

Like I said, I think it's ludicrous to claim that we can accurately say what a typical movie jedi is capable of, but I've never accused Tramp of having common sense.

 

And even if we included the clone wars series, what do we know about their skillfulness?

Anakin has the hot shot tree. Cause he either triumphs or despairs...

That different jedi have different focuses. Some are pilots. Some are not. Some are mystics. Some are lightsaber jockies. Even among the masters we see a bunch of variability. 

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10 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Anakin has the hot shot tree. Cause he either triumphs or despairs...

That different jedi have different focuses. Some are pilots. Some are not. Some are mystics. Some are lightsaber jockies. Even among the masters we see a bunch of variability. 

No. no. no. This is Star Wars. All things must follow a singular pattern. Ice planet. Swamp Planet. Desert Planet. Beach Resort Planet. Jedi aren't allowed variables. It throws off the spin of the universe. All jedi must just be jedi and be amazeballs at everything (or whatever the standard benchmark is for jedi these days).?

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1 minute ago, warchild1x said:

No. no. no. This is Star Wars. All things must follow a singular pattern. Ice planet. Swamp Planet. Desert Planet. Beach Resort Planet. Jedi aren't allowed variables. It throws off the spin of the universe. All jedi must just be jedi and be amazeballs at everything (or whatever the standard benchmark is for jedi these days).?

Right. And ignore any evidence that says otherwise....:P

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