Questions about two specific Alien abilities

[Krishakh 4]

1. Thin Man's Infiltrate ability - few questions:

a) if he's killed and another Thin man show up with the same ability - does this ability counts?

b) if he's killed and another Alien show up:

-is the original Thin man taken for salvage?

-if the squad kills another Alien do they take salvage for both of them?

-if they choose not to risk and kill another Alien, can they take the salvage at all?

 

2. Sectoid's (and Sectoid Commander's) Mind Merge ability:

I believe it states that every first success each roll is cancelled.

My doubt is that maybe it states that just the first success of the whole battle is cancelled - which is much easier for the squad, but makes me ask why not just give the beast 1 point of health more.

 

3. Chryssalid's Implant ability:

Is the threat increased every round? Really? I mean, ****, if I don't get the bastard on my first shot (let's say round 1 -  threat 2), the next round it will become threat 4 instead of threat 3.

Or is it just a one time increase at the first round squad encounters that foe.

 

 

The things above are just not very clear for me, and anybody care to clarify will have my gratitude.

[Foranoda 9]

For the Thin Men, the ability always counts. So if you kill a thin man, another appears with the ability, then you gotta kill a third guy. All aliens killed are taken as salvale (minus outsiders with their abilty). If you kill the thin man and opt to not kill the newly spawned alien, you get the salvage for the thin man but not for the alien that spawned.

 

For sectoids, as far as I remember, the card says that the first success in each "round" is cancelled. So if you make your first roll and only get one success, the alien is alive, threat-counter moves one up, and you roll again. Roll one more success, and the alien gets a proper hit. However if you wait and don't fight the alien further, let one whole round pass (meaning a new timed-phase inbetween) the first success in that round would again be cancelled

 

The ability of Chrysalids are only triggered when the Chrysalid is attacked for the first time, not for every roll against it.

[Krishakh 4]

Thanks!

 

That's not exactly as I thought (I mean, with the Sectoid case).

[Dichotomy 11]

For the Thin Men, the ability always counts. So if you kill a thin man, another appears with the ability, then you gotta kill a third guy. All aliens killed are taken as salvale (minus outsiders with their abilty). If you kill the thin man and opt to not kill the newly spawned alien, you get the salvage for the thin man but not for the alien that spawned.

 

For sectoids, as far as I remember, the card says that the first success in each "round" is cancelled. So if you make your first roll and only get one success, the alien is alive, threat-counter moves one up, and you roll again. Roll one more success, and the alien gets a proper hit. However if you wait and don't fight the alien further, let one whole round pass (meaning a new timed-phase inbetween) the first success in that round would again be cancelled

 

The ability of Chrysalids are only triggered when the Chrysalid is attacked for the first time, not for every roll against it.

 

Sorry for the thread hijack OP, but its sorta related.

 

Do you claim salvage immediately, at rounds end, or (for missions) when the mission is completed ?

 

I am assuming it is straight away.

 

Thanks

[CommissarFeesh 458]

One assumes straight away, as there's nothing on the rules to indicate a delay.

Is there a card that this is relevant for? Buying my copy later this month, so while I have played my knowledge is not yet encyclopedic.

[Dichotomy 11]

One assumes straight away, as there's nothing on the rules to indicate a delay.

Is there a card that this is relevant for? Buying my copy later this month, so while I have played my knowledge is not yet encyclopedic.

 

Timed-Phase salvage cards would only be effected if you could not receive salvage until missions end (which can be significant when dealing with thinmen for example). Examples are Elerium (exchange salvage for money), IIRC Alien Biology (exchange salvage for tech) and 1 or two others.

 

As far as I am aware the only salvage oriented Resolution-phase card is the workshop (or is the laboratory I can't remember which). I am not sure if it is the one that allows for immediate tech use (then discard tech card) or the one that allows for more dice rolls during the research phase. If it is the former then that would be effected by the base salvage order and the mission salvage order.

 

So short answer is for mission salvage order, yes there are at least 3-5 cards that would be effected. For base salvage order there MAY be one.

 

Hope that clarifies it

[CommissarFeesh 458]

Sorry, you've still lost me. You only get salvage from killing aliens, which AFAIK only happens during the resolution phase anyway, right? So how does that affect timed-phase cards? You either have salvage from the previous resolution phase or you don't.

The resolution-phase cards make sense to me at least.

[Slothgodfather 270]

It's rather hard to get salvage during the timed phase - since you aren't killing anything then - but it is possible.  Either way, there are card effects where this question is relevant.  However, I'm pretty sure immediately upon defeating the alien (or generating salvage with a card effect), you hand that card to your science officer for salvage, regardless of what phase that is accomplished in.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Slothgodfather

[CommissarFeesh 458]

It's rather hard to get salvage during the timed phase - since you aren't killing anything then - but it is possible.

Thanks - I didn't actually know you could generate salvage during the timed phase, that's good to know (and clears up my confusion from Dichotomy's reply).

[Slothgodfather 270]

Archangle Armor tech is used during the timed phase, and if your headquarters is in South America you can generate 1 salvage a turn during the timed phase.   I'm not sure if there are any other cards that do that.

[Dichotomy 11]

Sorry, you've still lost me. You only get salvage from killing aliens, which AFAIK only happens during the resolution phase anyway, right? So how does that affect timed-phase cards? You either have salvage from the previous resolution phase or you don't.

The resolution-phase cards make sense to me at least.

 

Yes I did not word it well.

 

I was not meaning to imply about getting salvage during the timed phase. I was responding to you asking about whether salvage acquisition (given the 3 variations I described in my post) really matters, and whether there was a card that would make this matter.

 

EXAMPLE 1

I asked if salvage was not allowed to be collected until after the end of the mission. If this was the case then you would not be able to use THAT salvage during the NEXT "timed-phase" unless you completed the mission. You would also not be able to use THAT salvage during the rest of the current "resolution-phase" ie with the workshop (or laboratory, whichever one it is). Hence the order of salvage is important. (Now obviously if you have a ton of salvage this is not important at all, but generally its beter to use resources rather then hoard them).

 

If you gained it straight away then you could for example kill an alien and then use the salvage from the kill to say "research the light-plasma gun" and gain a success on the next alien you attack that round. If you had no salvage at that point, or not enough (as it would require you to buy that tech with salvage), and you had to wait till the end of the mission, then you could not use it to help yourself. I bring up this example as i used it to win a game the other night.

 

Another example would be using WEAPON FRAGMENTS during the following "timed-phase" to gain more money. If you have to wait till mission completion to gain the salvage then you could not use that salvage to do this. You may even have to discard the salvage if you choose to abandon the mission.

 

The base salvage order only becomes important for resolution-phase abilities (ie the workshop/laboratory card), as it cannot occur over multiple turns so thus the "timing of salvage acquisition" cannot possibly affect the timed-phase of the following round. 

 

I am playing it now as others suggested on this forum ie claim salvage as soon as the alien is dead, regardless of where it is killed (ie mission/base), and thus I now have the option of using that salvage immediately. It certainly gives the players an advantage to do this, particularly if you are making judicious use of your workshop/laboratory.

 

 

So what slothgodfather is 100% correct, but was not really what I was talking about (my fault there). 

 

Hope that makes things clearer (though probably just made things worse )

[CommissarFeesh 458]

No, I get what you meant now - thanks for taking the time to clarify

[Dichotomy 11]

No, I get what you meant now - thanks for taking the time to clarify

No worries, always glad to take the time to make myself sound like less on an idiot

 

Happy Xcomm'n

[dizpatcher 20]

Okay.   A question about salvage. 

 

Resolution phase card Laboratory allows you to Discard 1 salvage 

 

Add 1 XCOM die to each roll a research task. Limit once per task. 

 

So, does this mean that you need three salvage cards if you wish to add a XCOM die to each card you are researching? 

 

It may sound simple, but not to my simple mind. 

 

Thanx in advance. 

[CommissarFeesh 458]

Yes. Each lab (1 2 and 3) is it's own task during the resolution phase. 1 salvage only works on 1 lab. If you have multiple salvage, you can spread them between labs, or use them for other purposes.

Edited March 8, 2015 by CommissarFeesh

[rmsgrey 22]

The base salvage order only becomes important for resolution-phase abilities (ie the workshop/laboratory card), as it cannot occur over multiple turns so thus the "timing of salvage acquisition" cannot possibly affect the timed-phase of the following round. 

 

Actually, since the Laboratory only allows you to use salvage to add dice to research task rolls, and research happens before base defense, the timing of salvage during base defense is completely irrelevant.

 

Things affecting salvage during Resolution (in order):

1) the crisis that discards all salvage

2) Laboratory adding extra dice to research in exchange for salvage (1/task)

3) Killing enemies during base defense/mission resolution (cards that allow you to kill enemies without rolling only work while the enemies have soldiers assigned, which never happens before the relevant resolution steps)

 

Provided the Chief Scientist collects all the corpses before the next Timed Phase starts, it doesn't matter how long you delay before handing them over.

 

For completeness, things that interact with salvage during the Timed Phase (in any order):

a) We Have Ways (South America asset - exhaust to give 1 salvage)

b) Archangel Armor (assign soldier to give 1 salvage, 2/round)

c) Weapon Fragments (discard salvage for emergency funding)

d) Xenobiology (discard X salvage for free X cost research, 1/round)

[iliv4kane 0]

Greetings from Germany

I have one question regarding the ability of the sectopod.

I couldn't find the English wording and nobody seems to have issues with the ability.

My group couldn't agree on how to play right.

The squad leader had to assign soldiers to a sectopod. The sectopod had three symbols and two of them were specialised.

He assigned three soldiers with matching specialised symbols.

As I understand it, he could only assign two of them, but then why bother to print three smybols!?

[CommissarFeesh 458]

I don't remember the Sectopod special rule, so forgive me if I'm missing something.

You can assign a number of soldiers up to the number of symbols on the alien card. Each soldier must have the symbol for the 'slot' on the alien it's assigned to. If the alien or soldier has the specialised symbol this isn't a requirement (as in, a non-specialised soldier may be assigned to a specialised alien and vice-versa) but if both the soldier symbol and alien symbol are specialised you get a bonus die for each match.

If the Sectopod has some kind of special rule preventing you assigning more than two soldiers, then the third symbol is presumably there to give you more options in deciding who you CAN send.

[rmsgrey 22]

Greetings from Germany

I have one question regarding the ability of the sectopod.

I couldn't find the English wording and nobody seems to have issues with the ability.

My group couldn't agree on how to play right.

The squad leader had to assign soldiers to a sectopod. The sectopod had three symbols and two of them were specialised.

He assigned three soldiers with matching specialised symbols.

As I understand it, he could only assign two of them, but then why bother to print three smybols!?

English wording:

 

"Tough: Soldiers cannot be assigned to attack this enemy unless their matching icon is specialized."

 

In other words, the soldier you assign must be specialised, though the icon to which you assing it need not be. The specialised soldiers assigned to specilaist icons get an extra die; those assigned to non-specialist icons don't. If you assign soldiers to all three icons of a Sectopod, you'll roll 5 dice against it.

[iliv4kane 0]

This was unclear for me.Thank you for the clarification.

I wish they could make a list with examples for all cards like Dominion did.