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leptokurt

Are Ents too strong?

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I'm not a complete fan of Ents either. I tried them in quite some decks, but most of the time they just slow me down. They have very decent stats of course, but during a round I can only use one of them (most of the times) and for every function there are equally good alternatives but they can be used during the round they enter play, and most of the time they have a side-effect as well. Another reason for me to not be that fond of Ents is the length of a game, since most games only take 5-8 rounds.

 

The only ent I do like is Treebeard. Since he gets that extra action every 2 rounds, which makes him a very solid defender and attacker in many games. and some readying effects (Ever Vigilant, Spare Hood and Cloak, Brand, ...) make him even more useful.

 

Scores to me:

 

Treebeard: 9/10

Wandering Ent: 6/10

Booming Ent: 5/10

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Ent's can't be played with any kind of deck due to their nature. You're either play with lore/tactics deck (or Elrond deck) or a deck with a long setup.

1) Treebeard is neutral and 2) he can pay for Ents. ;)

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First off, here are several ways to bring Treebeard in on turn 1, especially when playing the sagas since they have an extra hero. Secondly, even if you get Treebeard in on turn 2, he can buy a 2-cost on turn 4. I agree that his cost of 4 and his slowness are definitely liabilities, but there are ways around it. Also, Treebeard certainly does not need to be the only one contributing resources toward the other ents.

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Yeah, one Spare Hood and Cloak, and Treebeard can start his work immediatly. And like joe said, he starts to collect resources on turn 3 already (besides, joe is also right that Treebeard is a blast in the saga expansions).

 

 

I get that Ents need some time, but I don't think that it does weaken them as much as it should be. Like I said, you still have anough resources left to play other cards.

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First off, here are several ways to bring Treebeard in on turn 1, especially when playing the sagas since they have an extra hero. Secondly, even if you get Treebeard in on turn 2, he can buy a 2-cost on turn 4. I agree that his cost of 4 and his slowness are definitely liabilities, but there are ways around it. Also, Treebeard certainly does not need to be the only one contributing resources toward the other ents.

...which still goes against the statement that "Ents can be used in any deck". They can't. As simple as that.

Edited by MyNeighbourTrololo

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First off, here are several ways to bring Treebeard in on turn 1, especially when playing the sagas since they have an extra hero. Secondly, even if you get Treebeard in on turn 2, he can buy a 2-cost on turn 4. I agree that his cost of 4 and his slowness are definitely liabilities, but there are ways around it. Also, Treebeard certainly does not need to be the only one contributing resources toward the other ents.

...which still goes against the statement that "Ents can be used in any deck". They can't. As simple as that.

 

Well in theory they can, because of Treebeard and the existence of e.g. Song cards. Ents may just not be as effective in certain types of decks. I have yet to try Ents properly but I'm looking forward to it and hoping for more ent allies down the road.

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I thought it was obvious we were talking about Ents being effective in any deck. In theory, you can take 3 spirit heroes and fill the deck with tactics cards only and 3 songs of battle.

We were talking about Ents being "playable" in any deck. The word "effective" was added by you. :ph34r:

 

Anyway, I think it is pretty clear that Ents are more effective in certain decks, which is where I think we all (?) agree.

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I think this discussion is proving that Ents are well balanced.  They can be strong in a properly designed Ent deck, but they're not necessarily strong enough to include in any Lore or Tactics deck.  I've played them a few times so far.  Occasionally I have time to get a few Ents into play and the booming Ents are attacking for 5+.  Other times I'm in a tight situation, drop Treebeard or other Ents into play, and then lose that turn before Treebeard can ready.  Or it's one of those turn 1 losses because I can't play any useful allies and Ents are my only option.

 

Personally, the only change I would make to the Ents is Treebeard's ability.  It should only work on other Ents instead of being able to ready himself.

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I thought it was obvious we were talking about Ents being effective in any deck. In theory, you can take 3 spirit heroes and fill the deck with tactics cards only and 3 songs of battle.

We were talking about Ents being "playable" in any deck. The word "effective" was added by you. :ph34r:

 

Anyway, I think it is pretty clear that Ents are more effective in certain decks, which is where I think we all (?) agree.

 

We were talking about Ents being too strong, just how the title says. How fast you shift your judgement just to get an upper hand in the arguement :D

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I thought it was obvious we were talking about Ents being effective in any deck. In theory, you can take 3 spirit heroes and fill the deck with tactics cards only and 3 songs of battle.

We were talking about Ents being "playable" in any deck. The word "effective" was added by you. :ph34r:

 

Anyway, I think it is pretty clear that Ents are more effective in certain decks, which is where I think we all (?) agree.

 

We were talking about Ents being too strong, just how the title says. How fast you shift your judgement just to get an upper hand in the arguement :D

 

Wrong again, we I already concluded that Ents are too strong, the remaining discussion is about in which universes Ents would take over the world because of their flawed design. :P

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Wrong. You concluded that, no one else. So, if thread is going to be like that, I officialy conclude that Outlands is the weakest faction of the game and is utterly unplayable. 

I should have made it more clearly that it was sarcasm? :mellow:

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I'm undecided on whether Ents are too strong, as I haven't played them yet. Hordes of them might be...

 

Have been wondered about retrying a low threat solo mono Lore deck as the 2 cost 2 willpower wandering Ents coupled with Treebeard's attack/defence/resource generation should make noticeable difference.

 

However it does seem really clear that MyNeighbour Trololo and leptokurt have different world views. on Ents

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IMO, Ents are strong but not too strong.

Their drawback can be significant if you're pressured from the start or if you happen to draw them during mid-late game.

However, I think their strong points are many.

 

It seems we all agree that Treebeard is at least good, if not outright awesome, isn't it? So I'll be just considering the Wandering and Booming Ents.

 

-1 Well balanced stats (the Booming Ent who has no WP though).

-2 Low cost, both considered in itself (2 resources is low) and in particular compared to what they offer in terms of stats.

 

 

1 is mostly useful in solo play or for HoN quests, in which you often need different stats to quests even over the course of a single game, but is quite good even in Multi since it means Ents always have a part to play.

2 is partially balanced by their drawback but still makes them very powerful when playing 2, and especially 3-spheres: you'll have a much easier time playing them. In addition to this their low price means they'll often enter play a round earlier than it would have been otherwise, partially overcoming their weakness.

 

Their 3 hp is what makes them particularly useful in my eyes: many encounter sets contain cards which inflict direct damage (treacheries, archery etc). In this situation playing most of the low-cost allies is very risky, whereas Ents can safely absorb a hit or two.

Of the two, I like the Wandering Ent more. The Booming Ent's ability is not very strong since it requires quite a few pieces to fall in line, however I find it so fun to play with that I tend to include them in my decks very often.

To sum it up: they're very powerful but I do not judge them broken since their drawback is not negligible.

They're solid allies able to build a strong power-base mid-late game but that should be mixed with other cards more useful at the beginning to make up for their weakness.

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