tournamemt play

[Krynn007 2,445]

If all I have to do and say

Please I'd like you to use shields instead of dice

Is that unsporting?

Or how about

Please I'd like for you to keep your cards on the table so I can reference them.

Is that unsporting?

In any case if he declined I'd call the TO over and explain to him the situation

This gentlemen refuses to use the proper component of the game, and refuses to keep his cards on the table so I can reference them

I'd tell him well sorry but if you refuse to abide by the tournament rules then you can forfeit the match and I'll take the win.

Can you please count your dmg deck

I just checked mine and I have 33.

I'd like to cut your deck please.

He sets his dials in 30 seconds. I maybe take a min to min and half, which is in no means slow enough to be considered slow Play as I'd likely just take my usual time, but most certainly will not rush

In fact if he tries to rush me again I'll simply call the to over and explain the situation

This gentlemen is insisting for me to hurry up, and I have more ships than him. Since he likes two ship builds and I usually field more

Is that unsporting?

So please tell me in any of my example listed here is unsportsmanlike conduct?

Ya I never met the guy, but i trust the word I get from others I keep in contact with.

And this is probably enough to piss the guy off.

Just as I said I've done nothing wrong. If all I have to do is play strict by the rules and I would always expect my opponent to have the proper component and everything in view anyway so I'm not really going out of my way there, and I don't trust this guy enough, that ya, I want to count and cut his dmg deck then tell me what I've done here that is unsporting?

No name calling

No slamming thing down

Being polite.

So if I do this and know it makes him mad, does that mean he should be allowed to break rules?

So I should let him get away with keeping his cards out of view and huff and puff every tike I ask what upgrades you have in Han?

How many shields did han have?

4? I thought he had two?

Did your dice get bumped?

So I guess your ok with this kind of player

Good for you

Reason why I'm pissed is i love this game and the people in this area are a good bunch.

I don't like the Fact that he is making it not fun for others

I am not a people person. I hate assholes, and it's people like this that I cannot stand

Now if he.gets a clue and get better attitude then great. Maybe he be fine, but if every time you have to ask to see his cards that he keeps hidden he huffs about it, then I doubt he is a fun player to play against

[Buhallin 4,563]

So please tell me in any of my example listed here is unsportsmanlike conduct?

You said it yourself - you're going to do everything you can to make him angry, intentionally.  Whatever tactics you use to do so, that's unsportsmanlike.  If you change how you treat your opponents in an effort to intentionally enrage someone, it's unsportsmanlike.  Even if everything you do is technically legal, it's unsportsmanlike.  It's playing head games, and there's nothing respectable about it.

 

It doesn't matter how many people like him, or tell you he's an ass, or if you think he's an ass.  Sportsmanship is defined by your conduct, and you're talking about doing everything you can to make his play experience as miserable as possible.  You think being an ass to him is OK because of the numbers game?  He's an ass to the full group, and you're going to do exactly the same thing, but it's OK because it's only to him?  Or is it fine because you're not actually doing it to win the game, just exact vengeance by ruining his experience the way people say he's done?

 

Sorry, but no.  Justify it to yourself however you want, but you left sportsmanlike behind from the very beginning.

[Parravon 5,217]

Krynn, I can see where you're coming from, and I can understand your frustration when some ass makes a mockery of the game you so clearly love. But I think you need to take a step back, take a breath and look at the situation with a bit of logic. What are the actual chances of encountering this guy on the other side of the table in a tournament?

If he's read this forum (which is possible) he's probably recognised himself here and may change the way he plays. He might not read the forum and that might not alter anything. Either way, I wouldn't let one clown ruin the game for me. If I met him in a tournament, I'd probably do some of the things you suggest, but just because that's the rules of the game and not because I think he's an ass. I'd demand all the cards out and proper tokens, and if he wants to huff and puff, he can hyper-ventilate all he wants, it's not going to phase me.

But, dude, you need to chill a bit, that's all I'm saying.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Or someone in this group could be an adult and tell this guy that his play and the way he treats others is unexceptable.

They could also speak with the TO in regards to his sloppy book keeping habits which are something no decent TO should tolerate.

If talking to the player does nothing then the TO should not welcome him back.

This passive aggressive approach is just silly.

Edited February 13, 2015 by ScottieATF

[Krynn007 2,445]

Krynn, I can see where you're coming from, and I can understand your frustration when some ass makes a mockery of the game you so clearly love. But I think you need to take a step back, take a breath and look at the situation with a bit of logic. What are the actual chances of encountering this guy on the other side of the table in a tournament?

If he's read this forum (which is possible) he's probably recognised himself here and may change the way he plays. He might not read the forum and that might not alter anything. Either way, I wouldn't let one clown ruin the game for me. If I met him in a tournament, I'd probably do some of the things you suggest, but just because that's the rules of the game and not because I think he's an ass. I'd demand all the cards out and proper tokens, and if he wants to huff and puff, he can hyper-ventilate all he wants, it's not going to phase me.

But, dude, you need to chill a bit, that's all I'm saying.

Ya your right

I did get pretty worked up there, but as I said, I hate these kind of people.

Just like I hate hockey parents who yell and insult other people's children lol.

Chances of getting matched up against him are probably slim.

But if I was i would still request all proper components to be on the table and in view at all times, and I expect that from any opponent

And i would request the dmg deck count and cut because I simply don't trust this guy.

I guess to me, from what I'm told, I feel he is kind of a bully in a sense of his attitude and behavior, and that is why i got so hot headed.

I appreciate your comment btw. And thank you

And my advice to the crew who encounter him

Do as what a buddy of mine said

Politely request him to use shields and not dice

Politely request he keeps all components on the table.

If he refuses call the to and politely explain your case

This gentlemen refuses to use the proper components and keep his cards on the table for reference

Edited February 13, 2015 by Krynn007

[StevenO 2,996]

You know, I could ALMOST see using a die in place of shield counter.

 

The thing is that it would need to be a d4 or d6 which should be stable enough to take most kinds of accidental shifts without turning.  I mean you can't get much more stable than a d4 sitting on a face and as long as the corners aren't too round on the d6 is would be almost as stable.  Now way in hell should a d20 be used to keep track of shield in any capacity other than as a replacement for a single token; they are way to easy to tip and besides is there any way to get more than 6 shield tokens on a single ship in this game anyway so it would be incredible overkill.

[duder 42]

It has recently come to my attention that this person, while at a tournament at another store, loudly complain when there was no store credit given to the tournament winner. It has also come to my attention that this player has also been kicked out of MTG tournaments for acting unsportsmanlike.

[Krynn007 2,445]

Then I'd say do the same for your area.

Maybe give him one more chance and a fair warning, and if he complains or tries some bs, say there the door bud

[Parravon 5,217]

Seems like he had a chance with MTG but blew it. Now he's trying it with a different game system.

[Krynn007 2,445]

Well from what I gathered is lots of people in this area do not like playing with him.

So the way I see it is like this

Let him keep playing, and likely lose 2 to more players or ban him.

Ya you lose one ahole but you don't lose more, nor turn new players away which is very likely

A guy like this does nothing but hurt the community

Edited February 21, 2015 by Krynn007

[Parravon 5,217]

We've had someone like this within our area as well. They can become a cancer in a gaming club. We cut our turkey out completely and banned him from ever joining again. Some leopards just won't change their spots, so it becomes their loss.

[Toqtamish 3,643]

Player A was talked to for the record after he continually messaged the TO after the fact privately and was less than polite. 

 

Its players like him that make me not want to play XWing competitively which I still have yet to do. Four whole games since it came out. 

[Parravon 5,217]

Sounds like a cancer. Get the knives sharpened.

[duder 42]

It has also come out that when player A wins, he uses any store credit to purchase MtG stuff and sells it. Apparently he sells the magic stuff and makes quite a bit of money.

And Toqtamish, I've played in 2 competitive tournaments, and player A is the only player that is like this.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Why is what someone does with thier store credit of any consequence to anyone else?

[Krynn007 2,445]

Because some people are just total losers

[duder 42]

My point being Scottie, is that he shows up to these tournaments for all the wrong reasons.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

There are 2 reasons this guy became an issue for your gaming group.

First and foremost is his behavior. The second is that, based on the posts in this thread, nobody dealt with it until it became an issue. Rather then essentially gossip about someone, in the rules forum no less, you would have been much better served (as a group) dealing with the issue.

Set expectations for proper play. Ensure the TO and Venue are on board. As a player base make sure the expectations are being met. If they aren't get the TO involved. If a player won't get on board, then the TO should let the player know they are no longer welcome.

I'm sure the player in question is problematic, but come on with the sewing circle stuff.

[Klutz 1,590]

Because some people are just total losers

 

You're going to get this thread locked...

 

Which might not be a bad thing at this point.

[duder 42]

Skip it then?

[guthrie76 11]

the stores I paly in have this victory scale in place

 

win--- 5 pts

 

modified win ----  3 pts

 

draw ------ 1 pts

 

loss ---- 0 pts

 

very little arguing or complaining, and for those who are wondering what a modified win is it is winning by points of your force left ( ie  chewie 51pts   howlrunner 18 pts team chewie wins ).   

[StevenO 2,996]

the stores I paly in have this victory scale in place

 

win--- 5 pts

 

modified win ----  3 pts

 

draw ------ 1 pts

 

loss ---- 0 pts

 

very little arguing or complaining, and for those who are wondering what a modified win is it is winning by points of your force left ( ie  chewie 51pts   howlrunner 18 pts team chewie wins ).   

 

Funny, I thought a modified win already has a definition.  It is winning by fewer than a  12 point margin.  Maybe you need a better example or two explaining the difference in that store's calculations.

 

If two 100 point squads meet and in the end one has Chewie standing with his 51 points (and 49 lost) and the other Howlrunner at 18 points (having lost 82) this is clearly a "win" for Chewie and not even close to a modified win.  Under the original rules it would be close to a modified win but even there a 33 point MoV would be a full win.

[guthrie76 11]

could have missed the meaning I guess.   I have wiped everyone I played so far, or been wiped out by them.  the only thing my score cards have said so far is either 5pts for the win, or 0 for the loss

[Itsacon 4]

Also, I didn't realize that conceding the match would mean it would be treated as you killed all of his guys but lost none of your own.  I thought that just meant "surrender" so if he had 25 points left, that ship(s) surrender and you get full 100 points but he'll still get whatever points he managed to get off of you.

That's actually correct, from the Tournament rules:

If a player concedes the match, treat all of his remaining ships as destroyed.

So if Player A has destroyed 88 points, and Player B has destroyed 30 points, and Player B concedes, Player A scores 170 points and Player B scores 30. A concede does not nullify damage already done.

[Cid_MCDP 17]

Concession is a weird thing. I honestly can't think of a time I'd concede a match other than needing to leave the premises for an emergency or something. 

 

That might just be me though. When I used to play 40k, I was always a little disappointed when somebody quit before the end of the game/ sixth turn. If I'm rolling, I like to keep rolling, y'know? Conversely, I always assume if somebody is kicking me all over the board, I'm not going to deny them the experience by taking my ball and going home. 

 

As for this "player a" guy, your TO should have handled the situation better, in my opinion. A good TO isn't just somebody who really likes to play X-Wing and knows the rules- he's also got to be comfortable with the notion that he's potentially the gatekeeper for all of these folks standing around rolling dice and pushing their toys around to have a good time or a bad time. If this player A person is really that much of a detriment, your TO should simply not allow him back. I mean look, if one player is negatively impacting an entire community or event, the solution seems pretty simple- remove that player from the environment. I don't think we need specific rules from FFG telling TOs when they should step in for sportsmanship disputes or stalling or whatever and how many warnings should be given and all that. If we're being honest, those rules would only serve two purposes- helping the TO not feel like they are being a **** when he has to make a tough decision, and letting ultra-competitive players know exactly where the lines are drawn. What we need are TOs that are willing to be TOs and not just the guys to answer rules questions and hand out the prizes. Note this is why I'd never volunteer to run a tournament- I wouldn't want to have to be that guy for something that's supposed to just be fun like a game of X-Wing, but you can bet that if I somehow find myself in that situation of being a TO that I'd accept it for what it was.

 

I think at this point it's safe to say that the little bubble around competitive X-Wing players being guys who played X-Wing, really liked it, and got really good at it has burst open. I see posts and read emails that seem to indicate that X-Wing is becoming one of the de facto games for "tournament gamers" and folks in the community ought to just plan on having to step up comparatively at the tournament level.  

 

All that being said, the onus on this kind of stuff is still on the players. I don't think it's bad form to ratchet up the competition level between playing friendlies and playing in a tournament, but ultimately if we play to our ability without stalling for time and deliberately trying to break the game to the point where the TO has to step in and tell us to dial it back, we don't have a lot of these problems to start with.