tournamemt play

[StevenO 2,996]

 

it actually offers some incentive for a losing player to concede while saving some face.

The whole point of conceding is because you have no chance to win, and won't even likely be able to kill anything before times up. So you see no reason to keep playing for the next 15+ minutes.

If I have a single academy pilot vs a Fat Han and Corran w/R2, I might be able to run for the remaining 20 minutes. But there's no way possible I could actually kill either of those ships.

So my options are to run and try to preserve my 12 points of MoV, or concede the match. It's hardly fair to the other guy that he has to choose between playing to time or losing 12 points of MoV.

Reversing it would mean the person winning has to decide if they really want those missing points or not. IMO it's better to have it as is, because it hurts the person who offers to concede, as it should be.

Frankly there's nothing that needs to be done, there are rules to cover this already, just need the TO to be aware of it and step in and deal with it.

 

 

I guess we're going to differ here.  There are games where you just know your chance of winning is all but shot but you also know you can keep a lot of your guys alive so you aren't completely blown out when it comes to MoV.  Both players may realize what the end result is likely to be and could use the extra break time but unless someone is willing to give up the MoV the game will continue anyway.

 

In your example I'm just advocating for a third option.  As it is now you have the full concession where the loser gives up points or the play it out to the bitter end and see what happens.  I want the third option that could end the game now without giving up those points; it may put the onus on the guy who's going to win but then it's do you take the bird that's in hand or trying going for the ones that are still in the bush.  If rejected the loser can still go down to a full concession or play the game as if he had never considered it.

 

No, it's more along the lines of:

"It's looking pretty grim. Do you want to call it there?"

"No, I'll fight to the end"

"OK, cool. New round then..."

 

I would definitely find "Well it's clear I'm going to stomp the holy living crap out of you..." to be condescending.

 

I've been on the wrong end of a 3:1 imminent defeat only to scape it back to 1:1, before finally being taken out. Sometimes it's not over til the fat lady sings. Sometimes, the fat lady left the building long ago, and you just didn't notice.

 

Asking for a concession when the opponent will lose everything probably is poor manners.  Allowing an opponent to retreat as a concession and save some points in MoV would be much less so.  To me that is more reason to add some kind of middle ground to that idea.

 

Perhaps it's not fair to ask but how many points is your time worth?  All I suggest is giving that third option between all of "my points are worth what ever time it saves" and "if you want points from me you're going to have to suck them out of the cold vacuum of space." 

[Smuggler 556]

As there are dice involved in this game, it's never relay sure you are going to lose until you have actualy lost... And in a tournament setting, what else are you going to do with thouse 15 minutes befor the next match? I guess I just do see the point in giving up the game even if the odds are against you.

[Intys Rule 148]

 

Third-party tokens may also be used, provided they are clearly recognizable and both players agree to their use.

If the person put 4 dice on a ship for 4 shields then maybe, but if they're setting the dice to the 4 face, and keeping track that way, it's clearly breaking the above rule.

 

Ah yes, that.  Note that "and both players agree to their use."  I could see that a player could use a perfectly identical but shinier shield token but if the opponent isn't cool with it, then he'll have to use the standard shield token.  So you can say you're not cool with him using D20s as shield tokens and he'll have to use the standard shield token or whatever token you're both happy with.  That's a solid base to back you up for next fight.

 

Also, I didn't realize that conceding the match would mean it would be treated as you killed all of his guys but lost none of your own.  I thought that just meant "surrender" so if he had 25 points left, that ship(s) surrender and you get full 100 points but he'll still get whatever points he managed to get off of you.

[Kaitatau 5]

This particular situation is considerably muddied by this:

 

It is considered good sportsmanship to concede defeat when there is no reasonable chance of victory.

 

It's a rather debated element of the tournament rules (IMHO it's a hold-over from pre-MoV scoring that needs to be removed), but it is in there.  If the second player was clearly in a "can't win" position when time was called, I'm not sure you can fault the first for asking for the concession.  I'm pretty sure it shouldn't actually rise to the level of collusion - it's not like one of them intentionally tanked the match for the other, and it's a situation which, like it or not, is explicitly described by FFG as not only acceptable but good sportsmanship.

 

Could you help me find that statement? I can't find it in the latest version of the official tournament rules ("Version 2.2.1 / Updated 10.16.2014").

[VanorDM 11,599]

In your example I'm just advocating for a third option.

A 3rd option could be nice. An agreement to end the game as it currently stands.

 

As there are dice involved in this game, it's never relay sure you are going to lose until you have actualy lost...

There is a point where the dice won't make a difference.

A single Tie Fighter vs Han Solo with 1 shield, MF, C-3PO and R2-D2 (crew) stands zero chance of actually hurting the Falcon. Even at range 3, the best you can hope for is 3 damage, of which 2 will be negated and the 3rd repaired by R2-D2. There is simply no way to hurt the Falcon at that point.

 

 

Also, I didn't realize that conceding the match would mean it would be treated as you killed all of his guys but lost none of your own.

That's not quite right either.

If someone concedes they are treated as if you destroyed 100 points worth of ships, even if they only have 98 points, you still get the full 100. But you still count any ship you lost against your MoV.

Edited February 9, 2015 by VanorDM

[Parravon 5,217]

 

No, it's more along the lines of:

As I said, it's a matter of perspective, but when I tell someone they may as well give up, it just comes off as condescending to me, no matter how I mean it.

So I'd never ask someone else to concede, I may offer it, or I may accept it. But I wouldn't ask for it. But that's just how I see it, not saying anyone else is wrong in asking for it.

 

You're right that it's a matter of perspective. And in my neck of the woods tournaments are maybe once or twice a year. It's very casual here, and asking for a concession will generally mean we've got time for another game, nothing more. As there's generally nothing riding on the outcome (other than bragging rights), it's no biggie. I suppose in a tournament where there may be a prize or two up for grabs, the perspective might be different.

[VanorDM 11,599]

As there's generally nothing riding on the outcome (other than bragging rights), it's no biggie. I suppose in a tournament where there may be a prize or two up for grabs, the perspective might be different.

If I'm playing with friends in a casual game. Yeah that's different. In fact in that case being condescending may be a bonus.

I was thinking of a tournament setting, like the store championship or on.

[Intys Rule 148]

Sorry, is concede different from concession? 

 

Am I right in saying that my interpretation of "concede" in this game is/was correct?

[StevenO 2,996]

Sorry, is concede different from concession? 

 

Am I right in saying that my interpretation of "concede" in this game is/was correct?

 

Both are based on the same thing.  You may concede a game while offering a concession.  Concede is an action while Concession is a thing.

Edited February 9, 2015 by StevenO

[VanorDM 11,599]

Here's what the Tournament doc says.

If a player destroys all of his opponent’s ships, his opponent’s squad is worth

100 squad points, even if it is worth fewer squad points to begin with.

If a player concedes the match, treat all of his remaining ships as destroyed.

So if someone concedes the match, then the winner gets a full win and 200 - ships destroyed points for their MoV. The loser would get a MoV score based on any ships they destroyed at that point.

[Buhallin 4,563]

This particular situation is considerably muddied by this: 

It is considered good sportsmanship to concede defeat when there is no reasonable chance of victory.

 

It's a rather debated element of the tournament rules (IMHO it's a hold-over from pre-MoV scoring that needs to be removed), but it is in there.  If the second player was clearly in a "can't win" position when time was called, I'm not sure you can fault the first for asking for the concession.  I'm pretty sure it shouldn't actually rise to the level of collusion - it's not like one of them intentionally tanked the match for the other, and it's a situation which, like it or not, is explicitly described by FFG as not only acceptable but good sportsmanship.

 

Could you help me find that statement? I can't find it in the latest version of the official tournament rules ("Version 2.2.1 / Updated 10.16.2014").

Whoops - looks like I pulled up an earlier version to check that it was still there, but they have indeed removed it (which is good). My bad on that. Still, it's entirely possible that the player in question hadn't realized it got changed either.

I'm just very skeptical of these sorts of one-sided abuse threads. It's hard enough to know what the guy might have been thinking in the first place, but when the OP obviously has a personal dislike for the guy I tend to give a lot of benefit of the doubt.

[duder 42]

Its bad enough that people are considering just conceeding against him in any tournments going forward just so they don't have to play him

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Yes that seems very juvenile as opposed to simply resolving an issue as adults should be expected to.

[duder 42]

Maybe, but how this player sees at and how we see it is very different.

[Keffisch 2,642]

Your personal dislike of this person seems to pervade the thread.

If you have issues with him/her then simply ask the TO at your events to be near and observe, in case of any problems - and given your history with said person.

 

As a TO I like to roam the tables but if there is blood in the water then I will circle around the "problem area", and it helps.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Keffisch

[duder 42]

The TO was also in the tournament. I don't blame him for that, he wanted to play as well.

[DailyRich 3,346]

The TO was also in the tournament. I don't blame him for that, he wanted to play as well.

 

Then they should have someone else not in the tournament helping them out.  Pretty sure that's in the tournament rules.  I know I'd hate to have my match stalled because my opponent was the TO and they had to step away to adjudicate something.

[duder 42]

I believe the person who originally suppose to be TO was sick and not able to attend.

[Krynn007 2,445]

Delete comment so not to cause trouble for people in this area

I hope I meet up with him in the regionals

If I play himthig to do everything I can to piss him off within the rules and without being unsporting

As tournament rules say you must have all components and everything has to be on the table

No you can't use dice

I want you to use actual shields.

I'll call to over

If he doesn't have the components I'll ask for a dq.

I'll ask to see each card and take them out of sleeves and make sure they are tournament legal and not proxies and again make him keep them on the table.

From what I'm told from others is this player plays dumb only when convenient for him.

If I attack him and he forgot to put down a focus though I normally let it go, I won't for him

I'm also told he rush and gets annoyed if his opponent takes longer than him.

In this case I'd take an extra few seconds just to annoy him.

I'd also ask before the game starts to do a dmg deck count and I'd want to cut his deck.

What really pisses me off is I'm talking to people who are anything but violent, but even him makes their blood boiland love this game, but now are considering avoiding the tournament scene and because if this guy.

Which pisses me off because until he showed up, they are really a great bunch

And after talking to others it's not only the op who has a problem with this guy.

If this isn't the moncton crew my apologies but after talking to some personally, it sounds like it is

Edited February 12, 2015 by Krynn007

[Buhallin 4,563]

If I play him I'm going to do everything I can to piss him off...without being unsporting

Wow. Just... Wow.

[Krynn007 2,445]

If I play him I'm going to do everything I can to piss him off...without being unsporting

Wow. Just... Wow.

Ya well if it is the same area, I'm going to play strict by the book If I'm match up against this guy.

I've been talking to others and not the poster if this thread.

Nobody there likes him.

Nobody wants To play him

And talking to some, they are now considering stepping away from the tournament scene.

Which really saddens me because I sometimes travel there and look forward to playing with these people as they are truly a great bunch.

Unfortunately you cannot tell him he is not welcome because he is allowed to pay the fee and play.

So ya, I'll play strict by the book.

So don't quote me and try make me look like a bad guy or something like that.

You came into thus thread and just start spewing oh well there are two sides of the story.

Well I've talked to others and the op is not alone

Nobody enjoys the game with this guy around

So ya, forgive me if I'm pissed off that this one guy is turning people I enjoy playing with and a great community away from the scene.

These people are far from violent but one guy said he almost wants to push him off a balcony And was really happy he didn't have to play him this tournament

So again, ya if I get matched up, I'll play strict by the book

Ya I'll piss him off without being unsporting

Use shields not dice

Cards on the table

I'll do a dmg deck count

Cut his deck

I'm not slow when doing my moves, but I'll take a extra couple seconds just to watch him squirm

He rushes players

Condescending

Makes everyone uncomfortable

Plays dumb only when it's convenient for him

So tell me you welcome players like this?

I'm sorry man, but I'm very pissed off that I have to hear these thing's

I look forward going there to play with this group, and now some are thinking of stepping away.

So I'll be the prick who gives this guy the treatment he deserves.

Everyone else I have no problem with.

So buhulian don't go treading on things you don't understand or effects you.

So ya wow just wow

Have a good day

Edit

Don't know why but this whole thing has really pissed me off

So nothing against the good forum members here.

I love this game and the people in my area are truly a great bunch

But everything I've heard. About this guy pisses me off

Edited February 12, 2015 by Krynn007

[Krynn007 2,445]

If there is one thing I hate in this ******* world it's ******* assholes

So forgive me if I'm pissed off

[duder 42]

Thanks for your support Krynn007

[Krynn007 2,445]

No worries man

I'm just sad to hear this guy has to show up and ruin a great community you guys have.

I dont think you and I met, but I've enjoyed playing over there, and I've talked to others and know you are not alone

I know the folks there are a fun laid back bunch, come tournament time ya it can get a little competitive, but everyone there cheers each other on which I'm happy to see

Until this guy comes along and spoils it for the rest of yas

And i wish some wouldn't come to threads like these and act as though they are some moral police, or something. I don't know what, but i don't appreciate some comments towards you.

It's not just your opinion as I've talked to others and can confirm that everyone there is extremely uncomfortable with him and does not like him.

I've actually heard about this guy from your previous tournament from another player who said he didn't like this guy. And the player who told me this is a very nice guy, and it must be bad if he doesn't like someone

When you enjoy a hobby

Enjoy the people you share it with, what can you expect when you get a ****** that shows up and makes the people you enjoyed playing with reconsider coming to tournaments.

I think if one player is an ass enough to make multiple people not want to play, then maybe get rid of that one player.

Tell him change or he's not welcome

I stand by with what I said earlier

If I meet up with this guy at the regionals, I hope he gets in a huff. Because I'll play by the rules. I'll be sporting like, but I'll not let a single thing slide

This from what I'm told is enough to really piss this guy off. In which I've actually done not a **** thing wrong

Playing by the rules

Counting dmg deck

All components

If he rushes me, or gets all huffy, I'll gladly call the to over and say he is being unsporting.

I go there to play with you guys when I can, and I'll be damned if I'll let this guy have his way

Edited February 12, 2015 by Krynn007

[Buhallin 4,563]

Hey, if you're that wound up about someone you've never met, that's fine. Up to you.

But intentionally trying to make your opponent angry is unsportsmanlike. Period. It doesn't become sportsmanlike because you don't like the guy, or because he's an ass. I was mostly astonished as to the lack of awareness, because "make my opponent as angry as possible without being unsportsmanlike" is an oxymoron.

Hate the guy all you want, for whatever reasons you want, that's on you. But don't delude yourself about your own behavior, which as you lay out is rather spectacularly unsportsmanlike.