tournamemt play

[duder 42]

I'm glad most people agree with me. That's why I like the community. Most people aren't arseholes

[Krynn007 2,445]

My advice read over the tournament rules.

If you know some others in your group who feel the same as you with this guy

, read the rules and even print them off

Take them with you and when you or someone gets matched up against this guy, tell him

And point out all the rules he is breaking

Also give good reasons

The dice

Hard to see from where your sitting

Can easily be moved or knocked over.

Etc

As for the cards

I want to constantly look at your ships and upgrades so I don't forget

Asking you every time to show them will slow the game down, and it helps you as a player to have a visual on all game component,and then again remind him that it's for these reasons they are in a tournament rules.

I'd hate to run into this kind of player, But at the same time wish I could cause I'd like nothing more than to royally piss them off every legal chance I can get

[Parravon 5,217]

I've found that if you do something that pisses them off, it really breaks their game plan, and they tend to fall apart rather rapidly. Then they start trying to pull your game apart. Win-at-all-costs players rarely have a good back-up plan.

[Intys Rule 148]

Page 1 of the tournament rules:

"Players are expected to act with respect and not intentionally distract or rush an opponent with the intent of forcing a missed opportunity."

 

Let him rush all he wants, but take YOUR time.  I'm not saying intentionally delay or slow down your pace, but don't increase your pace just because of him.

 

When you say he's using Magic dice, is that to keep track of shields/hits by using the numbers on the dice?  If he is using dice as actual tokens, ie, 2 dice = 2 shields no matter if one dice shows 20 and the other shows 10, then I think that's quite cool.  If he is using the dice to keep track of shields, ie, 1 dice and use it as a counter, then that is not cool at all.  Bump the table a couple of times and then complain to the TO that his dice has rolled. 

[Parravon 5,217]

Page 1 of the tournament rules:

"Players are expected to act with respect and not intentionally distract or rush an opponent with the intent of forcing a missed opportunity."

 

 Bump the table a couple of times and then complain to the TO that his dice has rolled. 

Darstardly!

 

I like it!!

[Krynn007 2,445]

Also if you want bring it to your to attention

Make sure the to is full aware (surprisingly some are not) of the tournament rules and bring it up that you and some others do not like that he is using dice and not putting cards out on display. Making it harder for his opponents to see his shields and abilities, and every tune you ask he makes it a big deal, and that it is actually against the rules and since everyone else obeys them he is no different

Geez the more I read this post the more I don't like this guy

[Intys Rule 148]

Since there is a "no card proxy" rule for tournaments, then I don't see a reason for him not to show you the cards during the game.  Plus he's already shown you the cards at the start of the match, why the heck would he return them to the sleeves THEN complain if he has to take them out again to show you?  Just leave them OUTSIDE of the sleeves during the match, problem solved!

 

Having said that, I am tempted to just photocopy my cards according to the squads I fly and use that as my "cards."  Saves a LOT of setup and organization time and if anyone asks, all my cards are in a Magic The Gathering-type card album for easy reference. 

[Parravon 5,217]

You've gotta wonder if he was purposefully trying to hide something by re-sleeving them all the time. Smells like a proxy card print to me.

 

The tourney rules state: "During tournament play, each player is required to use components included in official X-Wing products". I also want to know where my missing Magic dice are, because they don't seem to have come with any of my X-wing products.

[Krynn007 2,445]

Parravon brings up a good point

If he is so against taking them out, maybe they are proxy cards

I say your next tournament enquire about this.

If he gets offended oh well. If he gets very defensive maybe he is hiding something

And if you really want to get under his skin. Do a dmg deck count.

Count yours and ask to count his, and ask to cut his deck when he shuffles

If anything he'll be pissed, but you actually did nothing wrong.

If you beat him, just walk away and just give him a smirk

[StevenO 2,996]

Not only can you count your opponent's damage deck you can INSPECT the cards in it to make sure all of the right ones are there.  Might be helpful to find out there are a couple extra Munition Failures in place of a couple Direct Hits.  What's more is that it is perfectly legal to inspect your opponent's deck and shuffle it if desired; it's in the rules.

[Parravon 5,217]

I can imagine this guy would get royally cheesed off if every single opponent asked for all his cards to be laid out, swap the Magic dice for the proper tokens, and request an inspection of his damage card deck before each game. He strikes me as the sort that would get more agitated each game, and still not get the point.

[Smuggler 556]

While I agrea with the factual points (using dice instead of shield tokens, not having cards on the table and so on is not a good thing). I think it's wise to not paint this guy out to be the essence of evil after only hearing one side of the story... on an internet forum... Just saying, he might not be all that bad in reality. If asked to use tookens instead of dice, he just might agrea instead of throwing a tantrum.

 

And just for the record, I do not know the OP or this "player a".

[Parravon 5,217]

In 30+ years of gaming, I've come up against this sort of gamer too many times. From what the OP has described, he fits the stereotype perfectly.

[Buhallin 4,563]

In 30+ years of gaming, I've come up against this sort of gamer too many times. From what the OP has described, he fits the stereotype perfectly.

And how many times have we had this sort of "Hey everyone don't you agree with me how horrible this guy was?!?" story show up here, that turned out to have a lot more to it?

 

That's a big part of my more moderate post above - I wasn't trying to be pedantic (although let's face it, we all kinda thrive on that around here), but there really wasn't all that much detail on what really happened, and it's pretty obvious at this point that the OP doesn't care for the player in question.  Forget the grain, this sort of forum story requires the entire salt lick.

 

It was enough to raise some warning signs and suggest a bit of moderation.  The timing could have been an element of that.  I also still think it doesn't rise to the level of collusion, even if everything happened exactly as described.  Collusion is defined as "a secret agreement, especially for fraudulent or treacherous purposes".  Given that there was no actual agreement, and if it had been secret we wouldn't be having this discussion, AND (as I pointed out) the infamous Player A's request was for something that FFG explicitly defines as not only legal but good sportsmanship (dependent on the timing, of course), I really don't see how it can be collusion.  It doesn't meet the most basic definition of the word.  It sounds to me a lot more like a decision that was reached because nobody likes the guy, rather than anything that specifically addresses what collusion is.

 

But that was up to the TO, and he made the call he did.  I'm really not sure what purpose is served by the one-sided storytelling and bashing of someone who's not even around to present his side of things.

[duder 42]

At very minimum, it's unsportmanlike conduct

[Bilisknir 443]

I think under the current rules the fact that the concession wording is as it is, is probably a mistake. I understand why it is there. There are times 20 minutes into a 60 minute game where you know you are going to get wiped and are unlikely to kill the opposition. Say 1 Tie vs Fat Han, or something similar - at that point concession would be sporting. A full victory would be almost assured for the Falcon player over 40 minutes of play.

That doesn't mean a last turn, post timer, concession where you have 3 damaged Academy Pilot Ties against full health Fat Han is fair. Sure, the Falcon player would probably win eventually. But within time he didn't wipe so shouldn't get the extra MoV.

 

FFG probably need to reword the way concession is handled. Say ruling "No concessions with less than 10 minutes left on the clock" or something.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Bilisknir

[Intys Rule 148]

I think he's a [insert expletive here] for asking for a clean win anyway.  He obviously didn't get a full 100-point victory that he wanted.... maybe he played poorly or the other player played better than expected.... either way, he didn't get what he wanted.  To ask another player to "give" it to him is just unsportsmanlike.

 

If someone concedes, then fine.  But we both walked up to the table as men looking to win a battle --- I can only assume that is how the game ended as well.  To ask the opponent to bow out after the battle has been called to a close is just rude.

[DailyRich 3,346]

I'd also like to mention that player a uses magic dice as shields, not actual shield tokens. Also, player a keeps all his upgrade cards in one sleeve so we can't see them during the game. He will show them at the start of the game, but will give attitude if you ask to see them during the match

 

This sounds for all the world to me like a player who doesn't actually own everything he's playing with.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Seems like there's little question that it was a case of conclusion. End of the game both players still had ships on the table, so the MoV Wouldn't be 200 to 0, and A wanted the full 200 to help buffer his MoV.

But the TO handled it correctly so all is good.

As far as the dice thing... The rules are quite clear that you have to use the correct components, or a 3rd party version of those components. From the Tournament rules PDF...

Third-party tokens may also be used, provided they are clearly recognizable and both players agree to their use.

If the person put 4 dice on a ship for 4 shields then maybe, but if they're setting the dice to the 4 face, and keeping track that way, it's clearly breaking the above rule.

[StevenO 2,996]

I think a solution would be to revise how a concession works.  This is to say that instead of automatically counting the remaining fleet of the conceding player's forces as destroyed just count the points up as they currently stand.  Now this could actually give a losing player a higher MoV score but he still has to loss to go with it.  Of course that concession can be refused and a full concession awarding all points could then be proposed.  While there could be ways to exploit this (aren't there ways to exploit everything?) it actually offers some incentive for a losing player to concede while saving some face.

[VanorDM 11,599]

it actually offers some incentive for a losing player to concede while saving some face.

The whole point of conceding is because you have no chance to win, and won't even likely be able to kill anything before times up. So you see no reason to keep playing for the next 15+ minutes.

If I have a single academy pilot vs a Fat Han and Corran w/R2, I might be able to run for the remaining 20 minutes. But there's no way possible I could actually kill either of those ships.

So my options are to run and try to preserve my 12 points of MoV, or concede the match. It's hardly fair to the other guy that he has to choose between playing to time or losing 12 points of MoV.

Reversing it would mean the person winning has to decide if they really want those missing points or not. IMO it's better to have it as is, because it hurts the person who offers to concede, as it should be.

Frankly there's nothing that needs to be done, there are rules to cover this already, just need the TO to be aware of it and step in and deal with it.

[Parravon 5,217]

I agree with Vanor. The rules are fine as they are regarding concessions. If one player voluntarily chucks in the towel during the match then it's a full win to the opponent, but if he chooses to fight it to the time limit, regardless of how hopeless, then any ship he's still got on the table counts. 

 

I also think there's nothing wrong with a player asking for a concession during the match, if it does indeed look hopeless, but it's still up to the losing player to decide, and if he wants to fight on, there's no grounds there for moaning about it. This game is designed as a fight to the death and last-man-standing is the normal win condition.

[VanorDM 11,599]

I also think there's nothing wrong with a player asking for a concession during the match, if it does indeed look hopeless

I'd consider it bordering on poor manners to do so myself. Of course the other guy can just say no. But I'd never ask, I figure no matter how hopeless it seems, it's a little bit condescending to ask.

"Well it's clear I'm going to stomp the holy living crap out of you, so you might as well throw in the towel now, rather than making me work for it."

Clearly that may not be what you're saying but that's how it kinda sounds to me.

[Parravon 5,217]

No, it's more along the lines of:

"It's looking pretty grim. Do you want to call it there?"

"No, I'll fight to the end"

"OK, cool. New round then..."

 

I would definitely find "Well it's clear I'm going to stomp the holy living crap out of you..." to be condescending.

 

I've been on the wrong end of a 3:1 imminent defeat only to scape it back to 1:1, before finally being taken out. Sometimes it's not over til the fat lady sings. Sometimes, the fat lady left the building long ago, and you just didn't notice.

[VanorDM 11,599]

No, it's more along the lines of:

As I said, it's a matter of perspective, but when I tell someone they may as well give up, it just comes off as condescending to me, no matter how I mean it.

So I'd never ask someone else to concede, I may offer it, or I may accept it. But I wouldn't ask for it. But that's just how I see it, not saying anyone else is wrong in asking for it.