Shock Grenade - no damage vs Stun

[EvilTwinDK 4]

My question is:

does the Shock Greneade Stun if you roll no damage on the yellow die?

 

The Rules say that for a condition to trigger an attack need to deal aleast 1 damage before activating.

 

but the wording here confuse me

 

Shock Grenade, which states, “[action]: Choose a space within 3 spaces. Roll 1 yellow die. Each figure on or adjacent to that space suffers damage equal to the damage results and becomes Stunned

 

Thx.

[Hatting 119]

I believe the shock grenade always stuns as it activates outside of an attack.

Just like Sustained Fire can stun your unit without causing damage to it

Edited January 30, 2015 by Hatting

[Fizz 986]

In this case, the Stun is not an activated ability, it just says it happens.

 

"...suffers damage equal to the damage results and becomes stunned"

 

Since cards override rules, I would say that this would always Stun, even if it doesn't do any damage. Also note that this is a one-use card, and 2 sides of the yellow die don't have damage results on them.

[EvilTwinDK 4]

That how we were playing aswell, but then i found this article.

 

http://teamcovenant.com/pksullivan/2015/01/26/crackens-field-guide-for-rebel-operatives-2-tanking-economy/

 

Could be nice with some clarification, from FFG or another source, i think it's a very powerfull card, so either way, rebel or imperial players could win or lose in a tight battle, if this card i used right or wrong.

 

Thx for your replys

[player26506 26]

i would say the important word here is "AND". Figures receive damage rolled on the yellow die AND become stunned. the stun is a plus here. if only damaged figures are stunned, maybe the card would have said "damaged figures become stunned" or something like that.

yes i know another interpretation is it only refers to damaged units, but as the card say "Each Figure on or adjacent to that space suffers damage equal to the damage results" and yellow die result can be 0 damage, is not against the card text. figures would receive 0 damage AND become stunned.

 

what do u think?

 

anyways i asked to FFG to confirm this, and see what's the correct interpretation

[Budgernaut 6,255]

I definitely agree Hatting and Fizz that since shock grenades are not an attack, and therefore Stun is not a keyword of an attack (as per the last bullet under Conditions on page 9 of the Rules Reference Guide) damage is not needed for this condition to be applied to the affected figures.

[Grauenacht 0]

Our last game the rebels wanted to throw a shock grenade around a corner because it doesn't say line of sight, just within 3 spaces. I think this should also be faq'd.
 

[Hatting 119]

Grauenacht: See Counting Spaces in RRG, it is covered there

[Grauenacht 0]

I've seen the RRG topic on counting spaces, but it doesn't say line of sight is required, I try to show the situation below, where O is the attacker and X the target; they are within 3 space of each other, but O cannot trace a LOS to X.

░░░░
░█O░
X█░░
████
 

[Hatting 119]

If it doesnt say LOS is required, LOS is not required Simple as that. It is not unreasonable that you are able to throw a grenade around a corner

[Alarmed 257]

That's a wicked curve ball!

 

[jacenat 507]

p.9 in the RRG:

 

 

Conditions are sometimes used as keywords. When an attack 

uses a condition as a keyword, the condition is applied using 

the following rules:

 

Emphasis mine. The rule that you have to deal damage only is in effect if the condition is used as a keyword during an attack.

A Shock Grenade throw is not an attack (since it's also not defended), thus stun triggers because it's worded as

 

 

and become stunned.

 

Shock Grenades always stun.

[M1A1tanker 1]

After reading these post I would have to disagree. The key word on the card is the "AND" Roll a success, deal damage "AND" stun. If you roll a failure you fail it was a dud. If the card was meant to always stun it would read "[action]: Choose a space within 3 spaces.  Each figure on or adjacent to that space becomes Stunned. Roll 1 yellow die each figure on or adjacent to that space suffers damage equal to the damage results." 

To use a Non Star Wars example, "Knock out punch, Throw a punch at opponents head, If it hits deal damage and opponent is Knocked Out" 

[Tvboy 3,529]

Except shock grenades does not say "if it hits" or "if it deals damage". Also the rules do not have a concept of rolling a "success" except for attribute tests. Shock grenades is not an attack or an attribute test, the stun and the damage are independent from each other.

[a1bert 4,115]

To copy jacenat: Shock grenades always stun. And there is no "success". It simply deals damage according to hit results to the figures and then each figure is stunned. According to hit results may be 0. It does not affect the the rest.

 

Think of it as a concussion grenade. It may explode too high or low to do damage, but the shockwave is still powerful enough to stuns. It's called Shock Grenade after all!

Edited May 6, 2016 by a1bert