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Ken at Sunrise

Disney Bought George Lucas’ Ideas For The New 'Star Wars' Trilogy And Then Scrapped Them

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The man deserves the derision he receives...

No, he really, really doesn't.

 

I'm actually sympathetic to TIE Pilot, here--or, rather, to Lucas. There's good evidence that he's someone who is capable of coming up with good ideas (or at least a reasonably novel synthesis of ideas, since nihil sub sole novum). And while I personally didn't care for any of the prequel films, they were a popular and profitable expansion to the franchise.

My suspicion is that Lucas is the sort of artist who thrives on constraint and collaboration; the bigger he got, the more resources he had and the more people listened to him, and I think his work became less interesting in the artistic sense. Marshaling and managing a team of your peers is a different situation from a group of people executing your vision and doing what you tell them, and I strongly suspect that the differences between the prequels and the original trilogy is a result of transitioning from the former to the latter.

But that doesn't mean he deserves derision, so much as he deserves to have someone sit him down and say "George, this bit just isn't working. What if we reworked it like so?"

Natalie Portman... it's like he hit his head or something.

You. Take. That. Back.

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A script written by one of the more talented writers of both screenplays and science fiction in Hollywood (married to the king of pulp SF as a side note) rewritten by  someone who couldnt put a script together to save his life (From American graffiti on Marcia had to re-edit everything. See the auditions for a taste of the meandering pointless dialogue Lucas would have inflicted on us)

Star Wars was saved by the rest of the people involved. Marcia Lucas,John Williams John Dykstra, Colin Cantwell, Joe Johnston (why he isnt doing the new movies i cant say. He designed Boba fett, was involved in the films from the beginning and with the exception of Jurassic park 3 has made good films many with the right pulpy SW feel) and Ralph McQuarrie of course.

Lucas rewrite added what was the first of a long string of really dubious character decisions culminating finally in the creation of 3P0 by Darth Vader. Dont get me wrong im ok with Vader being Lukes dad but then Lucas got a bit giddy with the whole family thing and adding what would have been a blue dwarf in a white hat as a figure of wisdom. How smurfy. If kasdan hadn't rewritten it again it would have been terrible.

Admittedly i have not seen the whole Lucas script but i have seen parts of it and to use the keeper of the Grail Lucas chose poorly.

Lucas was never the god of film his acolytes think. Im sorry but it was a matter of him choosing good source material to rip off..i mean use as inspiration...and  the people around him putting out ideas and telling him no when needed.

Proof of that is evident in Jedi where he had about total control resulting in bumbling Ewoks and muppets filing the screen. Harrison Ford wandering around with that quizzical expression on his face (as Sci FI Universe magazine put it before they got bought out by SyFy) like Ward Cleaver on quaaludes, And the worst bit of unfulfilled foreshadowing in the history of film.

Then there were the prequels. George with technology,money and no one  to tell him 'Bad Director, no biscuit for you.

 

And there i go off on a bloody rambling rant again

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The man deserves the derision he receives...

No, he really, really doesn't.

 

I'm actually sympathetic to TIE Pilot, here--or, rather, to Lucas. There's good evidence that he's someone who is capable of coming up with good ideas (or at least a reasonably novel synthesis of ideas, since nihil sub sole novum). And while I personally didn't care for any of the prequel films, they were a popular and profitable expansion to the franchise.

My suspicion is that Lucas is the sort of artist who thrives on constraint and collaboration; the bigger he got, the more resources he had and the more people listened to him, and I think his work became less interesting in the artistic sense. Marshaling and managing a team of your peers is a different situation from a group of people executing your vision and doing what you tell them, and I strongly suspect that the differences between the prequels and the original trilogy is a result of transitioning from the former to the latter.

But that doesn't mean he deserves derision, so much as he deserves to have someone sit him down and say "George, this bit just isn't working. What if we reworked it like so?"

Natalie Portman... it's like he hit his head or something.

You. Take. That. Back.

 

 

 

She was pretty to look at, but her acting in the prequels was mediocre at best. Granted she was only 18 for TPM so I kind of give her a pass. I think she is a better actor now, but she was pretty dull back then.

 

Lucas does deserve some hate. What he did with the revisions to the OT were simply horrible. It would be like Leonardo coming back 15 years later and touching up the Mona Lisa.

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I don't think this played out quite like how they have portrayed it. There were rumors of JJ and Arndt butting heads over the script. Which considering Arndt left, JJ won out, though he is having Kasdan (another big name from ESB) help with the script. It is possible that they have deviated heavily from Lucas's treatment. Which will happen when you go from treatment to script. And from everything I've seen from Lucas recently, is that he is not very involved. Which is fine. If he truly wanted to be more involved he wouldn't have sold his stuff.

 

The Marvel situation only gives me comfort in that they obviously trust Feige. Considering how bored I've become of the Marvel method, I'm not a fan, but Disney is letting them do their thing. And LFL is now run by someone much more experienced in the movie business. All the evidence in the spinoffs show that this isn't going to be some franchise factory that will make the movies feel the same. 

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The main thing I don't like about Abrams is his treatment of space battles in the Star Trek franchise. Too much pinwheeling cameras and flashing lights on blackness with jerky motions and fast cuts. I'd much rather have the free floating camera feel of the original trilogy where you could actually see what the hell was going on. Pretty much the same feeling applies to the Episode 3 Lightsaber duels. Maul vs Jedi was (IMO) the best yet balance between dynamism and the ability to register exactly what people were doing. By the time it hit Ep 3 with Obi vs Anakin then it was just blurry bull of light that was impossible to track properly.

 

As far as the Lucas/Disney thing goes, given that they've de-canonised the entire EU I'm much happier that it's in the hands of the creators of some of the better recent films, and not in the hands of someone whose ability to create sequels to his own work appears to be roughly on par with my dog.

 

Good? Bad? Who knows. Trust in the Force. At least this time Lucas won't be able to come back 30 years later and insert Hayden ******* Christensen into the final scene.

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The main thing I don't like about Abrams is his treatment of space battles in the Star Trek franchise. Too much pinwheeling cameras and flashing lights on blackness with jerky motions and fast cuts. I'd much rather have the free floating camera feel of the original trilogy where you could actually see what the hell was going on. Pretty much the same feeling applies to the Episode 3 Lightsaber duels. Maul vs Jedi was (IMO) the best yet balance between dynamism and the ability to register exactly what people were doing. By the time it hit Ep 3 with Obi vs Anakin then it was just blurry bull of light that was impossible to track properly.

 

As far as the Lucas/Disney thing goes, given that they've de-canonised the entire EU I'm much happier that it's in the hands of the creators of some of the better recent films, and not in the hands of someone whose ability to create sequels to his own work appears to be roughly on par with my dog.

 

Good? Bad? Who knows. Trust in the Force. At least this time Lucas won't be able to come back 30 years later and insert Hayden ******* Christensen into the final scene.

 

Turns out there's some very small print in his contract with Disney that let's him do just that! :D

 

But we'll see how ep VII turns out... If it's good: Rejoice! If it's bad... well it's not like i have high hopes to be dashed anyway.

It's not gonna be as bad as the phantom menace:

 

Before: yaaaaay finally a new starwars movie! this is gonna be awesome!

After: dafuq did i just watch?

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In fairness it took me about 3 goes to work out just how bad the film was (I was about 13?). I came out buzzing and excited, and then someone said "Hey, do you want to see it again?" and I was like "Sure!" and then I came out of that thinking "Uummmm" and then on the third playthrough it was all "aaargh, it's killing my brain...".

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Disney has done well by me, Lucas has directed some terribad things. I'm absolutely ok with Disney changing the scripts. George doesn't need to be mocked, my impression of the prequels was that George wasn't getting enough critical feedback. Disney can provide that feedback, so we get all the good and none of the mediclorients.

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In fairness it took me about 3 goes to work out just how bad the film was (I was about 13?). I came out buzzing and excited, and then someone said "Hey, do you want to see it again?" and I was like "Sure!" and then I came out of that thinking "Uummmm" and then on the third playthrough it was all "aaargh, it's killing my brain...".

 

LOL should have quit while you where ahead! :D

I liked ep II when i first saw it, and now I can barely make it trough half the DVD...

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The less involvement Lucas has with these new films, the better they will be.

 

You're talking about the guy who came up with it all in the first place.

 

I don't think star wars could of survived another three Lucas made films, the idea makes me queasy.

 

It did just fine off of six.

He might have been the originator of the series, but he went off into left field trying to come up with the PRE-story and totally bombed with too much CGI, when actors, sets and stop motion looked better!

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Portman was I'll served by the script and director. Hell! Even Christiansen is better than the Prequels made him seem like. He actually gave the exact performance Lucas asked him to give.

Let that sink in for a bit.

Lucas has always been a wonderful idea guy. He is great at creating fantastic worlds and filling them in with verisimilitude.

He fails at actually telling a compelling story. Even when the story itself is good, Lucas doesn't quite manage to pul it off. Look at the difference between, say Episode 2, and the Clone Wars (TV show). Same universe, same characters, different storytellers.

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I recommend people read The Secret History of Star Wars and judge for themselves.

 

(But I personally think Lucas should have his hands cut off before being allowed to touch Star Wars again.)

 

On the other hand ... what's this about Return being in the top two films? Empire, yes, but ... Ewoks? Sister? C'mon, the original Star Wars is better than Return, even if Return does have a rockin' fleet battle sequence.

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I recommend people read The Secret History of Star Wars and judge for themselves.

 

(But I personally think Lucas should have his hands cut off before being allowed to touch Star Wars again.)

 

On the other hand ... what's this about Return being in the top two films? Empire, yes, but ... Ewoks? Sister? C'mon, the original Star Wars is better than Return, even if Return does have a rockin' fleet battle sequence.

 

To be fair, a rockin' fleet battle makes it possible to forgive a lot

 

(also the Emperor/Luke/Vader scenes aboard the new deathstar really stole the show)

 

 

the ewoks are just background noise, like the **** they shoved into the special edition, so you only have to start drinking when they get in front of the action (or when the mythic Endor wood of yore slays military-grade imperial walkers)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I recommend people read The Secret History of Star Wars and judge for themselves.

 

(But I personally think Lucas should have his hands cut off before being allowed to touch Star Wars again.)

 

On the other hand ... what's this about Return being in the top two films? Empire, yes, but ... Ewoks? Sister? C'mon, the original Star Wars is better than Return, even if Return does have a rockin' fleet battle sequence.

Tiny fuzzy cannibalistic Viet Cong may or may not have been better than Jawas.

 

 

I recommend people read The Secret History of Star Wars and judge for themselves.

 

(But I personally think Lucas should have his hands cut off before being allowed to touch Star Wars again.)

 

On the other hand ... what's this about Return being in the top two films? Empire, yes, but ... Ewoks? Sister? C'mon, the original Star Wars is better than Return, even if Return does have a rockin' fleet battle sequence.

 

To be fair, a rockin' fleet battle makes it possible to forgive a lot

 

(also the Emperor/Luke/Vader scenes aboard the new deathstar really stole the show)

 

 

the ewoks are just background noise, like the **** they shoved into the special edition, so you only have to start drinking when they get in front of the action (or when the mythic Endor wood of yore slays military-grade imperial walkers)

 

Wood is HEAVY.

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I recommend people read The Secret History of Star Wars and judge for themselves.

 

(But I personally think Lucas should have his hands cut off before being allowed to touch Star Wars again.)

 

On the other hand ... what's this about Return being in the top two films? Empire, yes, but ... Ewoks? Sister? C'mon, the original Star Wars is better than Return, even if Return does have a rockin' fleet battle sequence.

Tiny fuzzy cannibalistic Viet Cong may or may not have been better than Jawas.

 

 

I recommend people read The Secret History of Star Wars and judge for themselves.

 

(But I personally think Lucas should have his hands cut off before being allowed to touch Star Wars again.)

 

On the other hand ... what's this about Return being in the top two films? Empire, yes, but ... Ewoks? Sister? C'mon, the original Star Wars is better than Return, even if Return does have a rockin' fleet battle sequence.

 

To be fair, a rockin' fleet battle makes it possible to forgive a lot

 

(also the Emperor/Luke/Vader scenes aboard the new deathstar really stole the show)

 

 

the ewoks are just background noise, like the **** they shoved into the special edition, so you only have to start drinking when they get in front of the action (or when the mythic Endor wood of yore slays military-grade imperial walkers)

 

Wood is HEAVY.

 

 

and very poor footing :P

 

But I stand by my guess that the wood on endor is the most powerful creature on that planet. Remember the walker that tripped? He didn't crash, he ******* exploded. Guess what he landed on...

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I recommend people read The Secret History of Star Wars and judge for themselves.

 

(But I personally think Lucas should have his hands cut off before being allowed to touch Star Wars again.)

 

On the other hand ... what's this about Return being in the top two films? Empire, yes, but ... Ewoks? Sister? C'mon, the original Star Wars is better than Return, even if Return does have a rockin' fleet battle sequence.

Tiny fuzzy cannibalistic Viet Cong may or may not have been better than Jawas.

 

I recommend people read The Secret History of Star Wars and judge for themselves.

 

(But I personally think Lucas should have his hands cut off before being allowed to touch Star Wars again.)

 

On the other hand ... what's this about Return being in the top two films? Empire, yes, but ... Ewoks? Sister? C'mon, the original Star Wars is better than Return, even if Return does have a rockin' fleet battle sequence.

 

To be fair, a rockin' fleet battle makes it possible to forgive a lot

 

(also the Emperor/Luke/Vader scenes aboard the new deathstar really stole the show)

 

 

the ewoks are just background noise, like the **** they shoved into the special edition, so you only have to start drinking when they get in front of the action (or when the mythic Endor wood of yore slays military-grade imperial walkers)

 

Wood is HEAVY.

and very poor footing :P

 

But I stand by my guess that the wood on endor is the most powerful creature on that planet. Remember the walker that tripped? He didn't crash, he ******* exploded. Guess what he landed on...

Fun fact: Mythbusters actually tested the logs, though their rig had shorter logs and not as much swing. Still pulped an armoured truck.

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Fun fact: Mythbusters actually tested the logs, though their rig had shorter logs and not as much swing. Still pulped an armoured truck.

No joke. Redwoods are majestic and dense. There's a reason people built houses out of them.

 

~27lbs/cu.ft for redwood vs ~49-66 for different types of eucalyptus, which is what they tested with, but considering the shorter swing and logs I think the only question is how the hell the Ewoks got the logs up there in the first place.

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Fun fact: Mythbusters actually tested the logs, though their rig had shorter logs and not as much swing. Still pulped an armoured truck.

No joke. Redwoods are majestic and dense. There's a reason people built houses out of them.

~27lbs/cu.ft for redwood vs ~49-66 for different types of eucalyptus, which is what they tested with, but considering the shorter swing and logs I think the only question is how the hell the Ewoks got the logs up there in the first place.

I'm surprised they tested on eucalyptus, when Endor was filmed in a Redwood forest, and MythBusters is filmed about an hour from that forest. :)

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Fun fact: Mythbusters actually tested the logs, though their rig had shorter logs and not as much swing. Still pulped an armoured truck.

No joke. Redwoods are majestic and dense. There's a reason people built houses out of them.

~27lbs/cu.ft for redwood vs ~49-66 for different types of eucalyptus, which is what they tested with, but considering the shorter swing and logs I think the only question is how the hell the Ewoks got the logs up there in the first place.

I'm surprised they tested on eucalyptus, when Endor was filmed in a Redwood forest, and MythBusters is filmed about an hour from that forest. :)

I'm fairly certain there's no way to legally harvest redwoods in the US these days.

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