Ysanne and Damaged Sensor Array crit

[CDR Stele 498]

So Ysanne is crew on a Friespray and the Firespray receives the Damaged Sensor Array crit. Firespray has evade action in it's action bar. Can the Firespray continue to take evades using Ysanne's ability? Text of both cards is below.

 

Damaged Sensor Array: You cannot perform the actions listed in your action bar.

 

Ysanne Isard: At the start of the Combat phase, if you have no shields and at least 1 Damage card assigned to your ship, you may perform a free evade action.

 

I am inclined to say that the ship can NOT take the Ysanne evade as it is listed in it's bar. 

[Keffisch 2,642]

So, add to the aboev and to put it another way - a Decimator is able to perform its free Evade from Ysanne despite the crit and it does not have Evade in the action but, but a Firespray does so is unable to.

 

Meaning, Ysanne would work on the Deci, but not the Firespray - with the Damaged Sensor Array "effect" active?

Edited January 22, 2015 by Keffisch

[CDR Stele 498]

So, add to the aboev and to put it another way - a Decimator is able to perform its free Evade from Ysanne despite the crit and it does not have Evade in the action but, but a Firespray does so is unable to.

 

Meaning, Ysanne would work on the Deci, but not the Firespray - with the Damaged Sensor Array "effect" active?

 

Correct. That is precisely the question. Hoping to get some input from FFG

[Englishpete 1,379]

Correct,

 

If the Ysanne card read Action: blah, blah, you could perform the evade as it is no longer an action from the action bar.

 

However the crit specifies that you cannot perform actions from your action bar, therefore taking an evade action is now forbidden on Boba with this crit.

 

Ysanne says you may perform a free evade action, but the crit is forbidding that, so Ysanne fails.

[Cptnhalfbeard 680]

Correct,

 

If the Ysanne card read Action: blah, blah, you could perform the evade as it is no longer an action from the action bar.

 

However the crit specifies that you cannot perform actions from your action bar, therefore taking an evade action is now forbidden on Boba with this crit.

 

Ysanne says you may perform a free evade action, but the crit is forbidding that, so Ysanne fails.

I don't agree with this at all. Just because it is specifying that you are doing an evade action does not mean that the action is coming from your action bar.

The fact that a decimator could get an evade with Ysanne is all the proof you need. Also, if that were the case, no one would be able to use Expert Handling unless they had the barrel roll action on their action bar...

Ysanne is providing a way to take the evade action separate from the actions on your action bar. Ysanne does not read "you may perform an evade action from your action bar"....

[CDR Stele 498]

It is not, in fact, "all the proof you need" as the Decimator does not have evade in it's action bar. The wording on the cards is very clear. If FFG rules that Ysanne's ability trumps the DSA crit, then I will follow that. Until they do, however, the wording on the cards and FAQ is what I will use as guidance. FAQ clearly states that abilitiy cards that begin "ACTION:" supercede DSA crit. This is not the case with Ysanne. 

 

The issue is specific to Ysanne and Imperial ships with crew slots AND evade actions in their action bar which, at this point, is a pretty exclusive list (only the Firespray and Phantom). I'd like some sort of specific ruling from FFG.

Edited January 22, 2015 by M240guy

[CDR Stele 498]

(You'd be sort of a turkey to put Ysanne in a Phantom, btw, but the issue does apply to them as well)

[Truegreek 170]

There are broader applications, such as dsa and Jake. Say garven assigns a focus token to him, is his only available action barrel roll because boost is on his action bar?

that might be the case atm but it does feel weird.

[CDR Stele 498]

As I understand it, yes. He could roll, but not boost. And yes, it does feel odd.

[Cptnhalfbeard 680]

It is not, in fact, "all the proof you need" as the Decimator does not have evade in it's action bar. The wording on the cards is very clear. If FFG rules that Ysanne's ability trumps the DSA crit, then I will follow that. Until they do, however, the wording on the cards and FAQ is what I will use as guidance. FAQ clearly states that abilitiy cards that begin "ACTION:" supercede DSA crit. This is not the case with Ysanne.

The issue is specific to Ysanne and Imperial ships with crew slots AND evade actions in their action bar which, at this point, is a pretty exclusive list (only the Firespray and Phantom). I'd like some sort of specific ruling from FFG.

you misunderstand the meaning of the Damaged Sensor Array crit. It does not mean for you to treat the actions listed on your action bar as a list of actions you can no longer perform by any means. It means treat your action bar as though it were blank. If the decimator can use Ysanne without having the evade action on its action bar, then a fire spray can still use Ysanne while the evade action is no longer available to it because of a crit.

There is no "superseding" anything going on with this interaction. If I am using Ysanne's ability I am not doing anything with my action bar. There is a huge difference between performing an action from your action bar and performing an action from an upgrade card.

Edit: sent this off to Frank for an official answer.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Cptnhalfbeard

[Truegreek 170]

It is not, in fact, "all the proof you need" as the Decimator does not have evade in it's action bar. The wording on the cards is very clear. If FFG rules that Ysanne's ability trumps the DSA crit, then I will follow that. Until they do, however, the wording on the cards and FAQ is what I will use as guidance. FAQ clearly states that abilitiy cards that begin "ACTION:" supercede DSA crit. This is not the case with Ysanne. 

 

The issue is specific to Ysanne and Imperial ships with crew slots AND evade actions in their action bar which, at this point, is a pretty exclusive list (only the Firespray and Phantom). I'd like some sort of specific ruling from FFG.

you misunderstand the meaning of the Damaged Sensor Array crit. It does not mean for you to treat the actions listed on your action bar as a list of actions you can no longer perform by any means. It means treat your action bar as though it were blank. If the decimator can use Ysanne without having the evade action on its action bar, then a fire spray can still use Ysanne while the evade action is no longer available to it because of a crit.

There is no "superseding" anything going on with this interaction. If I am using Ysanne's ability I am not doing anything with my action bar. There is a huge difference between performing an action from your action bar and performing an action from an upgrade card.

I'm not so sure about that, as the card simply says you cannot perform actions listed on your action bar. If it wiped just the action bar I would think it would read you no longer have actions on your action bar. Raw, it means you can't perform whatever actions you have symbols for, regardless of the source. I'd agree its odd, and probably shouldn't work that way, but I'm pretty sure that it is how it works.

so in short, a bounty hunter couldn't focus, evade, or targetlock at all, as an action.

[VanorDM 11,599]

It does not mean for you to treat the actions listed on your action bar as a list of actions you can no longer perform by any means.

But that is what the card actually says...

You cannot perform the actions listed in your action bar.

Speaking strictly RAW, it would in fact prevent you from taking any action on your action bar, regardless of where it comes from. It doesn't say to ignore the actions listed on your action bar, or that you should treat your action bar as blank. It says you cannot perform the actions listed there.

That may be what they intended for the crit to do, and so you can use Ysanne, Jake, Turr, ect... even with that crit in place. But RAW it does in fact state you are not allowed to perform any action listed on your action bar.

[CDR Stele 498]

As I stated before. The DSA crit states, in plain language, that you can not perform actions in your action bar. It says nothing like, "unless some other ability allows you to." In fact, the FAQ even goes so far as to specify that only cards with the "ACTION:" heading will trump the effect. I am not saying that your interpretation is incorrect RE the intent of the card. I am saying that it should get a formal ruling as the wording of the cards is clear and interpretations vary.

[CDR Stele 498]

It should also be noted that this exact situation would be pretty rare. You'd need a Firespray (or Phantom, I guess) that is into hull AND gets the DSA crit.

[VanorDM 11,599]

It should also be noted that this exact situation would be pretty rare.

Actually there's a number of ships that have some sort of ability that involves a action that's on the ships action bar.

Jake Farrell, Night Beast, Turr Phennir all have abilities that are actions on their action bar.

[CDR Stele 498]

All the more reason to get a clarification

[Buhallin 4,563]

Come on, people... does anyone actually read the FAQ any more?  15 posts in, some of them getting unpleasant, and a message fired off to Frank, when this one is spelled out directly:

 

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it can still perform free actions granted by an Upgrade card  with the ‘Action’ header (such as Expert Handling) even if that action is listed on that ship’s action bar.

 

Now admittedly, that was cleverly hidden away in the "Damaged Sensor Array" card section, so I can understand how people could miss it

[droz69 232]

Come on, people... does anyone actually read the FAQ any more?  15 posts in, some of them getting unpleasant, and a message fired off to Frank, when this one is spelled out directly:

 

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it can still perform free actions granted by an Upgrade card  with the ‘Action’ header (such as Expert Handling) even if that action is listed on that ship’s action bar.

 

Now admittedly, that was cleverly hidden away in the "Damaged Sensor Array" card section, so I can understand how people could miss it

So, you can still use ysanne with the dsa crit?

[dvorm 1,058]

 

Come on, people... does anyone actually read the FAQ any more?  15 posts in, some of them getting unpleasant, and a message fired off to Frank, when this one is spelled out directly:

 

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it can still perform free actions granted by an Upgrade card  with the ‘Action’ header (such as Expert Handling) even if that action is listed on that ship’s action bar.

 

Now admittedly, that was cleverly hidden away in the "Damaged Sensor Array" card section, so I can understand how people could miss it

So, you can still use ysanne with the dsa crit?

 

Yes you can. That's what he said.

[droz69 232]

Thanks. Unfortunately I'm the one that probably set off this debate because there was a post in an fb support page that said couldn't use isaards ability with that crit, and I chimed in with you can use it because it's beyond the action bar and is a separate ability in and of itself.

[CDR Stele 498]

 

Come on, people... does anyone actually read the FAQ any more?  15 posts in, some of them getting unpleasant, and a message fired off to Frank, when this one is spelled out directly:

 

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it can still perform free actions granted by an Upgrade card  with the ‘Action’ header (such as Expert Handling) even if that action is listed on that ship’s action bar.

 

Now admittedly, that was cleverly hidden away in the "Damaged Sensor Array" card section, so I can understand how people could miss it

 

So the Ysanne Isard crew card has an 'Action' header? Mine must be a misprint.

Edited January 22, 2015 by M240guy

[WWHSD 9,273]

 

 

Come on, people... does anyone actually read the FAQ any more?  15 posts in, some of them getting unpleasant, and a message fired off to Frank, when this one is spelled out directly:

 

A ship with Damaged Sensor Array assigned to it can still perform free actions granted by an Upgrade card  with the ‘Action’ header (such as Expert Handling) even if that action is listed on that ship’s action bar.

 

Now admittedly, that was cleverly hidden away in the "Damaged Sensor Array" card section, so I can understand how people could miss it

 

So the Ysanne Isard crew card has an 'Action' header? Mine must be a misprint.

 

 

It doesn't but the same ruling should apply. It's an upgrade that grants a free action regardless of whether your ship actually has that action listed on their bar or not. 

[CDR Stele 498]

This is exactly my point. It SHOULD apply, but it doesn't say that, and the FAQ is very specific. I am not saying that is not the intent of the card, but it deserves at least some ruling from FFG

[Buhallin 4,563]

Do you have any actual reasoning for why the ruling might be different?

 

Because if there's some actual point we can address, we'll be happy to do so.  But I can't see any reason why there would be a difference between the upgrade itself being an action or not.  The effect is the same.

 

For the record, the FAQ really isn't that specific.  We often have to take specific rulings for a specific card and extrapolate it to others.  If you don't think it's going to apply for some reason, again, please state that.  If it's just "It says action for this one but Isard isn't" then there's nothing anyone here can do to answer that for you, so just send it to FFG.

[VanorDM 11,599]

My bad then... I didn't even bother to look at the FAQ, I thought about it but I assumed others checked and it wasn't there.

But since it's covered there, then yes Ysanne does work even with that crit in place. Because as Buhallin correctly points out we can take that ruling and apply it to other similar cases.

Edited January 22, 2015 by VanorDM