Fenn Havoc Shot Timing .

[dmolpas 2]

I have a doubt about this ability which reads "Use when attaccking with a weapon , this attack gains Blast 1 " 

So The player have to declare he is using the ability before he rolls the dice and if he fails  he gains the strain anyway?

Or he can wait to see if his shot is succesfull and then use the havoc shot ? 

 

Thank you .

 

[Forensicus 883]

He can and should wait since

A) the card doesn't say "When declaring an attack"

and

B) Because "Blast" can't "trigger" if the target doesn't suffer any Damage

I believe that "Havoc " is applied at step 4 in "Attacking " on RRG page 5:

Apply Modifiers: If players have any effects that gain or remove icons or Accuracy, they are applied at this time. This includes spending F (evade) results to remove B results. Any B abilities that provide modifiers are not resolved until step 5.

(The add or remove icon bit)

At least that how read/play it

[Hida77 951]

He can and should wait since

A) the card doesn't say "When declaring an attack"

and

B) Because "Blast" can't "trigger" if the target doesn't suffer any Damage

I believe that "Havoc " is applied at step 4 in "Attacking " on RRG page 5:

Apply Modifiers: If players have any effects that gain or remove icons or Accuracy, they are applied at this time. This includes spending F (evade) results to remove B results. Any B abilities that provide modifiers are not resolved until step 5.

(The add or remove icon bit)

At least that how read/play it

I agree, you can do it after both players have rolled/rerolled dice. So you will know if it will have an impact or not. This is consistent with all other "Use while attacking..." cards/abilities.  Deadeye, etc. can also be played after you know they will have an impact or not.

[VoDDster 0]

Hi

 

Can he use Havoc Shot more than once per atack?

[Budgernaut 6,255]

If you look at Abilities on page 2 of the Rules Reference Guide, it says that abilities may only be used once per attack. Havoc Shot is an ability, so you may only use it once per attack.

[Mad Malade 9]

In campaign, can Fen use havoc shot before spending surges so he can lose the strain taken for the ability by using a surge ? With the same mindset, can he remove one strain with a surge and then use havoc shot ?

In the rules it is written that if an ability can be used "while attacking", it can be used at any time during an attack, so I'm wondering if both scenarios are possible.

[Hida77 951]

In campaign, can Fen use havoc shot before spending surges so he can lose the strain taken for the ability by using a surge ? With the same mindset, can he remove one strain with a surge and then use havoc shot ?

In the rules it is written that if an ability can be used "while attacking", it can be used at any time during an attack, so I'm wondering if both scenarios are possible.

Yes, you can wait until this point, and do it whichever order.  Since the Ability doesn't add attack dice, doesn't re-roll dice, and doesn't modify dice results it can be used at any point of the attack as per the RRG.

[Fizz 986]

Actually, the timing aspect of Havoc Shot is written so that you will always wait to determine whether or not you are going to use Havoc Shot until during Step 7: Calculate Damage, as Blast has no effect unless you actually deal damage to the primary target. Havoc shot must be declared "when attacking with a weapon", which means right up until the point where you apply damage in Step 7.

[DarkJodo 128]

*edited

Edited March 9, 2015 by DarkJodo

[jacenat 507]

In campaign, can Fen use havoc shot before spending surges so he can lose the strain taken for the ability by using a surge ? With the same mindset, can he remove one strain with a surge and then use havoc shot ?

In the rules it is written that if an ability can be used "while attacking", it can be used at any time during an attack, so I'm wondering if both scenarios are possible.

 

Yes both are possible. However if you use it before calculating damage and the target manages to evade all damage (by maybe rerolling it's defense die), you might suffer the strain without there being an actual effect. See Fizz' answer who also indirectly noted this.

[Mad Malade 9]

During the game, when we came upon the situation, we decided that both uses were correct. It's good to see we were not wrong. I was still wondering though, and wanted to check what was the general opinion on this topic or if I missed something in the rules.

 

Unless someone comes up with something that we all missed, I'll take this as settled for my games. Thanks for your inputs.

[DarthBinkly 0]

The Imperial player in my campaign isn't convinced and believes it should be declared before rolling. Is there anything particular to be done to ask for an official FFG ruling?

[Fizz 986]

Other than us telling your Imperial player he/she is wrong? No. But can always get official FAQ rulings by using the link in my signature.

[DarthBinkly 0]

Thanks--I've submitted it.

[macmastermind 203]

The Imperial player in my campaign isn't convinced and believes it should be declared before rolling. Is there anything particular to be done to ask for an official FFG ruling?

 

It's in the RRG, page 6 (under 'Special Situations...'):

 

Any ability that is resolved “while attacking” or “while

defending” can be used at any point during the attack with

the following exceptions:

-

An ability that adds dice to a dice pool can only be used

immediately before step 2 of the attack.

-

An ability that allows a player to reroll dice can only be used

during step 3 of the attack.

-

An ability that allows a player to modify die results can only

be used during step 4 of the attack.

 

 

You may now smack your Imperial player about the head and shoulders with the rulebook.  Lawyered!

Edited April 3, 2015 by macmastermind

[Fizz 986]

Thanks Mac, I was too tired from dealing with a water softener last night to post rules.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Fizz

[macmastermind 203]

Thanks Mac, I was too tired from dealing with a water softener last night to post rules.

 

Ha.  I almost went there - Fizz-Lawyered!

 

But I was too afraid of the disclaimer...