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eldidi

Some "Reach" questions

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Hi all!

Me and my friends are just playing trough our first campaign an we're a bit unsure how reach works. Could someone please explain which stormtroopers garkhan can reach with a reach weapon? and does reach work on terminals?

 

Thanks in advance guys!

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I'm sorry, what part of "An ability that refers to a target can be used when attacking an object, but an ability that refers to a figure cannot." (Attacking an Object RRG pg6) and "attacks that target figures up to 2 spaces away"  (Reach RRG pg21) is debatable?

 

The term "target figure" is used quite often, so it's not a mistake to use that here.  Target is used separately plenty of times as well.  Blast and Cleave are specifically called out in the Attacking an Object rule even though it's unnecessary since the rules for them explicitly say they can be applied to objects.

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I'm sorry, what part of "An ability that refers to a target can be used when attacking an object, but an ability that refers to a figure cannot." (Attacking an Object RRG pg6) and "attacks that target figures up to 2 spaces away"  (Reach RRG pg21) is debatable?

 

The term "target figure" is used quite often, so it's not a mistake to use that here.  Target is used separately plenty of times as well.  Blast and Cleave are specifically called out in the Attacking an Object rule even though it's unnecessary since the rules for them explicitly say they can be applied to objects.

I agree. Had I created this game, I would have said reach can hit terminals, but the rules don't say that.

 

The one clause that makes me want to believe that reach not affecting terminals is this supposed oversight under Ranged Attack in the Rules Reference Guide:

 

" Ranged attacks can target any hostile figure within line of sight of the attacker." [bold font is mine]

 

But the fact is, "ranged attack" is not an ability, therefore, the clause saying, "An ability that refers to a target can be used when attacking an object, but an ability that refers to a figure cannot", does not apply to ranged attacks. Further more, Objects says,

 

"Mission rules can allow objects to be attacked by specified figures (see “Attacking Objects” on page 6)."

 

Which, to me, implies that it is overriding the text under Ranged Attack that specifies figures.

 

Actually, now that I'm writing this, I looked  up Melee Attack and it too only mentions figures, so I'm quite convinced that the designers clearly intended for Blast and Cleave to work on objects but for Reach to not.

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Thematically speaking though, how does it make sense for reach not to be able to hit a terminal? The Wookie's got long arms and an even longer weapon, we're saying that he cannot smack a stationary object with his reach because he's not right next to it?

 

Seems like someone needs their arms ripped out of their sockets for not being clear on this, and yet all they have to do is hide behind a terminal one square away to keep their precious rules writing arms....

 

:D

Edited by Fizz

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Under the rules for "TARGET" page 24 of RRG states:

 

 

When declaring an attack, the attacker chooses a figure to attack.
This figure is referred to as the target.

 

By this logic, one could extrapolate that either:

A) Terminals can never be declared as targets.
B) Terminals count as figures for the purposes of declaring a target.

Edited by Fizz

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It might be a little unclear because an object can only be attacked if the mission rules state that it can be attacked. So the general rules are a bit "fuzzy". At our table if the mission allows for the attacking of an object we treat the object as a stationary "figure" in terms of what, and how it can be attacked.

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The funny thing is, if you look at the RAW, it seems that reach *does not* work while attacking objects:

 

"Attacking Objects" RRG, Page 6:

 

Many abilities that modify attacks can also affect objects that can be attacked, but some cannot. An ability that refers to a
target can be used when attacking an object, but an ability that refers to a figure cannot. If the ability can modify any attack and does not specify target or figure, it can be used when attacking an object.

 

The Blast and Cleave keywords can affect objects. If a figure is in the same space as the token, the figure and
token are considered adjacent for the purposes of Blast and Cleave.

 

"Reach" RRG, Page 21:

 

A figure with this keyword may perform (melee) attacks that target figures up to 2 spaces away.

• The attacking figure must have line of sight to the target in order to make this attack.
• An attack with Reach does not require Accuracy.

 

Now, this all said, there is an interesting tidbit, that objects are the only thing in the game that can be attacking if the object is the same space as the attacker. Additionally, doors do not technically occupy any squares, they are merely adjacent to the spaces that share the edge.

 

At this point, it really is a toss up, but as the Imperial player in my campaign, I am allowing reach to work against objects and doors.

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Under the rules for "TARGET" page 24 of RRG states:

 

 

When declaring an attack, the attacker chooses a figure to attack.

This figure is referred to as the target.

 

By this logic, one could extrapolate that either:

A) Terminals can never be declared as targets.

B) Terminals count as figures for the purposes of declaring a target.

So this has been hashed out for a while now, but since the thread is resurrected, I'll play on it. This isn't for you, Fizz, more for others who read this later.

 

I once thought as you do. I thought the fact that attacks only attack figures was a loophole, but I could never actually find justification for it. The rules for attacking objects clearly says abilities that mention "figures" but not "targets" or "objects" cannot affect objects (Attacking Objects, RRG 6). However, ranged attacks and melee attacks are not abilities -- they are attack types (Attacks, RRG 5). Furthermore, the rules for objects states that some mission rules will allow objects to be targeted. In these cases, the mission rules are overriding the rule stating that attacks only target figures (Attacking Objects, RRG 6). And in case there is any doubt, Reach, Blast, and Cleave are Keywords but Keywords are shorthand for abilities (Keywords, RRG 16), so they are subject to the rule governing abilities affecting objects while attacking objects.

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Under the rules for "TARGET" page 24 of RRG states:

 

 

When declaring an attack, the attacker chooses a figure to attack.

This figure is referred to as the target.

 

By this logic, one could extrapolate that either:

A) Terminals can never be declared as targets.

B) Terminals count as figures for the purposes of declaring a target.

So this has been hashed out for a while now, but since the thread is resurrected, I'll play on it. This isn't for you, Fizz, more for others who read this later.

 

I once thought as you do. I thought the fact that attacks only attack figures was a loophole, but I could never actually find justification for it. The rules for attacking objects clearly says abilities that mention "figures" but not "targets" or "objects" cannot affect objects (Attacking Objects, RRG 6). However, ranged attacks and melee attacks are not abilities -- they are attack types (Attacks, RRG 5). Furthermore, the rules for objects states that some mission rules will allow objects to be targeted. In these cases, the mission rules are overriding the rule stating that attacks only target figures (Attacking Objects, RRG 6). And in case there is any doubt, Reach, Blast, and Cleave are Keywords but Keywords are shorthand for abilities (Keywords, RRG 16), so they are subject to the rule governing abilities affecting objects while attacking objects.

 

So what you are saying, is that in quests allowing characters to attack objects, objects can be damaged by abilities, because the quest rule overrules the general rule.

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No. I don't have a rational argument (and I would consider balance as a rational argument) but the fact that they very explicitly stated in the rules that abilities that target "figures" don't work against objects. It's hard for me to be convinced that this is something they missed.

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